just starting ppl

[andy007]

Hi Everyone

I'm new to all of this so if I don't come up with the correct lingo, I'll make my apologies now.

Since I was a kid I wanted to fly. Now, at 43, I'm going to do it. The other half is treating me so here I go.

Having looked at many options, one of the best is for us to take a Holiday in the USA and combine it with the PPL. We have stayed on Orlando before and know the areas where the flight schools are, which helps.

Q.. Is it possible to do the training in both countries.. UK & USA ?? Theory in UK and practical in the USA.

Reason being we won't be going to the USA until Nov this year and 10 months is a long time unless it can be used to an advantage.

Are there any disadvantages of doing it in the USA and how and what conversions would be needed to use the license in the UK and Europe??

Finally, Books. Which..what and from where ???

Many thanks for your time and sorry if I've gone on a bit

Regards

Andy

[S-Works]

Re: just starting ppl

Congratulations, enjoy and stick with it (you will have some tough times!).

A split is a common option, theory and a few trial lessons in the UK then a concentrated course in the USA followed by some consolidation when you get home. Dont forget to get the VISA and TSA stuff sorted first.

For books the Trevor Thom stuff is good and a PPL confuser.

[YYZ]

Re: just starting ppl

Good luck however you decide to go ahead.

http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/pro...no1270023.html

This link is a god starter for everything you should need study wise for the PPL, don't forget the medical as well!

Enjoy
YYZ

[andy007]

Re: just starting ppl

Ho bose-x

Thanks for your reply. Couple more questions if I may.

1/ As far as splitting between countries, what theory can be done here, and any recommendations for the Devon area?

2/ What is the Visa for and are there any restrictions etc..

thanks again

Andy

[andy007]

Re: just starting ppl

hi yyz

thanks to you to for your reply and help

regards

andy

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Re: just starting ppl

If you're going to the USA the main thing is do not pay in advance as it's far from unknown for schools to go bust and lose all your money (there was a thread on this within living memory).

So, just a reminder: do not pay in advance.

Oh, and one extra piece of advice: do not pay in advance.

[charliegolf]

Re: just starting ppl

Andy,

good luck. I had the same long standing yen to fly, and like you had to wait until my 40s.

Since you can now afford it, I'd suggest a few lessons at home- this will introduce you to schools and instructors here, who can then get you involved in the ground instruction. That might make it cheaper than stand alone ground school.

You will easily pass all the exams before you go in november.

Others will advise you to get some instruction when you return, to famil you with UK procedures, and I think I'd agree.

Otherwise, great idea to keep the wife onside with a sun holiday.

Good luck.

CG

[booke23]

Re: just starting ppl

Start looking into the Visa requirements. Since 9/11 the issuing of visas for flight training of foreign nationals in the US has understandably been tightened up.

I think there is a bit of a paperwork mountian to fill in....don't leave this to the last minute, as various security vetting proceedures have to be carried out. I believe the whole proceedure can take a few months.

[strafer]

Re: just starting ppl

Email the schools you're interested in in the States. They should be able to send you a 'walkthrough' of the visa procedures. (If they can't, strike them off the list).

The procedures are not complicated, but do leave at least a couple of months to complete them.

Go there with an empty logbook to make sure they don't use any of your previous hours, as counting towards your 45.

[Mariner9]

Re: just starting ppl

Well worth getting down to your local airfield and getting (at least) a trial flight before you tootle off to the US, just in case you find flyings not for you (unlikely but has happened). Would also get your medical too, if there's any reason you cant qualify for a Class II medical (the minimum required for a JAR PPL) you could always go the NPPL route in the UK (lower medical requirements)
As cg says, if you train solely in the US, you will probably find that you need some "conversion" training to fly in the UK, in particular RT, UK airspace eg MATZ's etc), and airfield joining (never did an overhead join in the US). Use the PPRune search function, you'll find loads of threads about this.
Good luck whichever route you take. Also keep an eye on PPRune, spare seats are advertised from time to time, you might get a bit of experience sitting in the right hand seat for 1 bacon buttie/hour or so.

[Mike Cross]

Re: just starting ppl

Anuvver fing
The CAA publish a document called LASORS available here which contains all the requirements for the issue of a JAA PPL. It would be useful to be aware of the requirements in case for any reason you are unable to complete everything in the US. The rules have changed (relaxed) in the past year and this document contains the most up to date info.

Mike

[Zulu Alpha]

Re: just starting ppl

Going to the US for your PPL is a great way to get it. A few more words of advice
1 By all means do some flying before you leave the UK. In the USA complete all the training to get your US (FAA) PPL. ie don't just do some hours and come back. If you get your US licence this will allow you to fly over there when you visit. Also you can then just sit a couple of UK exams (air law and RT I think) and then the CAA will issue a UK licence. You can legally fly in the UK on the US licence as long as you keep it valid (medical and certificate of experience. I did this for many years.
2 Choose a school in the US that has a reasonably busy airport so that you learn how to cope with a busy airport. The best analogy I can give is learning to drive in a busy city will ensure that you are confident to drive anywhere. Learn in the quiet country and you'll be scared of driving in towns. Learn to fly at a reasonably busy airport (ie one that has a tower and ATC) and you'll be confident to fly anywhere thats busy.
3 Allow 3 weeks in the US, don't expect to do it in the minimum time (ask the school what their average number of hours for recent PPLs is). If you want to get your PPL in the minimum time then be prepared to be at the airfield from 8am to 8pm and studying in the evening. Don't take your wife and expect to spend much time lying by the pool with her, you will be busy and quite tired in the evenings. Its great fun but probably not for anyone who is with you and not learning to fly.
4 Aim to get your licence in March/April. This will mean you come back to the UK with the good weather ahead of you and can build some experience with sunny days and long evenings. If you get your licence in Oct/Nov then when you get back you will not be able to fly much in the winter and will get very rusty and have to pay for a refresher course. This means you have to find somewhere that has good weather in Feb/March, hence Florida or CA are the favourites.
5 Don't pay in advance.... Don't pay in advance
I suggest paying by credit card as you go. Some schools allow you a better rate if you pay $500 at a time. Work out how much you might save vs the risk of losing it if the school goes out of business... and don't expect a refund if you have anything left in your account when you leave... they expect you to use it all on flying so plan for this.
6 If you can do a day or two of flying around at the end of the course then do it. Getting experience helps you remember what they taught you. Also if you forget anything the school is there to refresh your memory.
I do like Sunrise aviation (http://www.sunrise-aviation.com ) at Orange Co (John Wayne) airport in south Los Angeles. I go there for aerobatic training and they seem nice honest people. I don't know what they are like for getting e new PPL but they have a lot of foreign students and the airport is busy. You can also get some tailwheel and aerobatic instruction there... Try it They will train you in a piper cub for the same rate as a C152
Have a great time.

[funfly]

Re: just starting ppl

Andy, good luck
I didn't start to fly until I was 63! best money I ever spent.
If not now - when?

My own observation: I've read about people who read for the ground exam in one evening and pass next day - for five days in a row during the course, but on intensive training for a mature pilot, I would say get your ground exams done before you go.

[paulo]

Re: just starting ppl

Don't pay in advance.

Tons of good advice above, particularly Zulu Alpha's.

I did exactly what you're thinking of... US then UK... not my plan exactly but I didn't get all the hours in the US - I was there 3 weeks. I would assume that at your age (no offense!) you won't do it in 45 hours. That's fairly normal. I think I took about 60, maybe a bit less.

I'll reiterate Zulu's comment about a busy airport. Get some independent opinion. I'm sure any school hungry for business would say "sure! we're busy!". I moved from a very rural field to Kissimmee near Orlando, which was hectic at times but meant I learnt alot about one of the more challenging bits of flying.

One very big thing though... you say combining it with a holiday, and "we" ? You won't be able to rack up the hours if you've got other people to think about. The US intensive thing is utterly exhausting. Three or four hours flying in a day - when you are learning - will more than likely leave you shattered.

If you want to combine this with a family/partner trip then I'd say you are looking at 2 hours a day flying max.

And one last thing. Don't pay in advance. Have we said that yet?

[foxmoth]

Re: just starting ppl

Go there with an empty logbook to make sure they don't use any of your previous hours, as counting towards your 45.

? I would have thought you would want these hours to count.

[CherokeeDriver]

Re: just starting ppl

Andy

I'm in my mid-30s and did it all in the USA in September last year.

Some hints that I wish I knew before I started:

You can transfer UK hours to your American Hours and vice versa - the JAA allow you to do this.

Apply for your M-1 Visa ASAP. The process takes about 12 weeks and you WILL have to come to London for a nice day trip to the US Embassy.

Make sure you pay your $100 SEVIS Fee on-line. You will also need to pay the US Embassy £60 (ish) into a bank before you arrive. No proof of both fees being paid = no visa.

You can do your UK PPL in the USA in its entirity. I went to Anglo American Aviation in San Diego and got my full license including RT. The school is run by a couple of British guys and is straight and level. when you get back to the UK you post the forms to the CAA and you get your license - easy as that. This is because Martin Lloyd and Andy Burr are CAA examiners.

Finally some advice you may want - I was there for 3 weeks with zero hours and zero exams passed. I bought the Trevor Thorn books from Amazon.co.uk as they were cheaper than anyone else at the time. I read all of the books and had done the PPL Confuser as well (The Confuser is BRILLIANT to help your *revision*). If you can get any of the exams under your belt in the UK you will have a more relaxed time. On this note I can say the 3 weeks I was there were some of the most challenging of my life - I was exhausted when I got back. I think that if you don't have some hours / exams passed before you go you should discount the thought of it being a holiday with some flying.

Best of luck with your decision - I had a teriffic time and was lucy enough to have a supportive pregnant wife who stayed at home when I lived my dream.

[strafer]

Re: just starting ppl

Foxmouth - you misunderstand.

The school I went to guaranteed to get students to the 45hr standard required. If you already had 5 hours in your logbook, that meant that you would only get 40 hours flying even though you'd paid the same price as others who got all 45. A bit of sharp practice perhaps, but not unusual.

So go with an empty log book, then add your previous hours when you return. The fact that they'll be out of order is not important.

[big.al]

Re: just starting ppl

andy007 -

I did exactly what you're planning to do, nearly four years ago.

I weighed up the advantages and disadvantages of learning in the US and decided it was for me. However I'm sure it's not suitable for everyone.

I started out by having a trial lesson at a local UK airfield just to confirm to myself that I would enjoy it. That's one hour in the log book, but also just gave me the very basics to be thinking about.

I then spent a few months with the AFE books, studying at home, testing myself with the PPL Confuser and taking the exams at a local flying school. I was charged £30 for each exam, but this was well worth it.

With all the exams done except for Nav and RT practical, Mrs Big and I set off to Florida for four weeks and rented a villa. I spent three weeks doing the flying training plus Nav and RT plus the inevitable dreaded GFT and ended up passing everything first time.

I reckon that doing it this way cost about the same as it would have done in the UK, but took a great deal less time and allowed us to have a holiday as well.

However - I did need (and I had expected this) a little additional 'training' on arriving back in the UK. RT is a little different and certainly the airspace considerations and local procedures (eg. overhead joins) are rather different to what they do abroad.

Biggest advantage of going abroad? Good weather allowing lots of flying rather than an hour a week, which allowed me to pass with 46 hrs in the logbook. In the UK I'm sure that more weather cancellations would have resulted in me needing more hours to complete the training.

Biggest disadvantage of going abroad? The good weather flying meant I had less experience of dealing with rain/showers, marginally viz, strong crosswinds and the like. If I waited for a 30+ mile viz day like most of them were in Florida, I'd probably get flying three times a year in the UK! I sometimes find it hard to judge whether today is a "flying day" or not and therefore err on the side of caution, perhaps more than some. Whether this is good or bad thing is a matter of opinion.

Word of warning; it can be hot in Florida (I went in April but I imagine it's still pretty warm in November). Don't forget the sunscreen if it's sunny (use the all-day P20 stuff and you won't have messy creams to reapply). Drink lots of water (I always carried a bottle in the aircraft - and still do - because concentrating in the heat gave me headaches, especially early in the course when everything seemed so unnatural). If the weather is hot, flying early in the morning will give you a smooth ride. When I flew later in the day, the thermals made it bumpy as hell - not such a problem later in the training but early in the course it made me queasy until I got used to it.

In summary, learning in the US can be great if you want a few weeks of nothing but flying. But I strongly recommend getting the exams done before you go (I'd never have managed the intensive flying course plus doing all the study and exams) and plan for 2-3 hours of 're-training' when you return and start flying at your local club.

Good luck and enjoy.

Big.Al

[Zulu Alpha]

Re: just starting ppl

Let me clarify what I meant by busy.
In the UK all flying training must be at a licenced airfiield which has to have air traffic control by radio. Therefore anywhere you train in the UK whether it is busy or quiet will have air traffic control.
In the US it is different. You can train at an airfield without air traffic control. Sometimes the airfield operator has a ground radio, sometimes not. All you do is self announce and possibly talk to other pilots. Training at an airfield like this does not prepare you well for handling the workload at busy airports. What I would recomend is training at an airfield where they have air traffic control from a control tower. This will only be at busier airports, which is what you want.
Some US schools may say they don't have a manned tower but that they do go to airfields which have towers to give you experience. I don't think this is as good. Doing RT while flying whilst looking out for traffic requires a lot of practise to get good at. Flying in this environment for all your training is very very valuable. Some schools will tell you that the advantage of quieter airfields is that there will be less delays but I think overall the busier airport is the best option.
I hope this clarifies what I meant. I do appreciate this is a matter of opinion.

[strafer]

Re: just starting ppl

If I waited for a 30+ mile viz day like most of them were in Florida

That's not the Florida I know!
I presume you went at a different time of year to me. Trust me, in September, Florida has plenty of 'weather'