How's this for being 'picky'
Thread Starter
How's this for being 'picky'
Watch out what you paint on your aircraft guys; a certain airport in the south has filed an MOR on a UK registered aircraft which 'carried a German flag on the tail'!!
Occurence Number 200509657 if you're interested.
Occurence Number 200509657 if you're interested.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
Hopefully the CAA put the MOR in the bin and pointed out to the airfield concerned that the report did not meet the criteria for a MOR, asked them to at least look at the MOR scheme documentation so they would know in future when it is to actually be used, and to stop wasting their time 
Or maybe the CAA could charge the airfield with endangerment due to diverting resource caused by over enthusiastic reporting.
Unless of couse there's more to the story ??
Name and shame if it's down to simply being 'jobsworths' who don't understand what a MOR actually is
5.4 Items to be Reported
5.4.1 Any person specified in the legislation should report any reportable occurrence of which he has positive knowledge, even though this may not be first hand, unless he has good reason to believe that appropriate details of the occurrence have already been, or will be, reported by someone else.
5.4.2 In deciding whether or not to report an occurrence it must be decided whether the event meets the definition as specified in the ANO. A reportable occurrence in relation to an aircraft means any incident which endangers or which, if not corrected, would endanger an aircraft, its occupants or any other person. A list of examples of these occurrences appears in Appendix B to this publication. This Appendix provides more detailed guidance on the types of occurrences which are required to be reported. However, Reporters are left to determine whether endangerment is a factor and thus determine whether the incident should be reported.
5.4.3 A report should also be submitted on any occurrence which involves, for example, a defective condition or unsatisfactory behaviour or procedure which did not immediately endanger the aircraft but which, if allowed to continue uncorrected, or if repeated in different, but likely, circumstances, would create a hazard.
5.4.4 It is of great importance to the success of the Scheme that the reporters keep firmly in mind the concept of 'endangering' or 'potentially endangering', as used in the above definition, when deciding whether or not to submit a report. The primary objective of occurrence reporting is to monitor, disseminate and record for analysis, critical or potentially critical safety occurrences. It is not intended to collect and monitor the normal flow of day-to-day defects/incidents etc. The latter is an important part of the overall flight safety task but procedures and systems already exist to carry out this function. In the main these comprise industry responsibilities monitored overall by the CAA. When appropriate, such systems also provide the necessary records for statistical purposes. In order to achieve the above objectives for occurrence reporting, the criteria for a reportable occurrence need to be set above, in terms of the effect on safety, the normal day to day defects or minor incidents. Over enthusiastic reporting of such items which fall below these criteria will involve unnecessary duplication and work to both the reporters and the CAA and will also tend, by sheer volume of data generated, to obscure the more significant safety items. Reporters should ensure that the content of their reports meets with the criteria and guidance laid out in Appendix B. Particular emphasis should be paid to ensuring that day to day operational anomalies, technical defects and routine reliability issues are dealt with via the normal organisational systems and procedures.
5.4.1 Any person specified in the legislation should report any reportable occurrence of which he has positive knowledge, even though this may not be first hand, unless he has good reason to believe that appropriate details of the occurrence have already been, or will be, reported by someone else.
5.4.2 In deciding whether or not to report an occurrence it must be decided whether the event meets the definition as specified in the ANO. A reportable occurrence in relation to an aircraft means any incident which endangers or which, if not corrected, would endanger an aircraft, its occupants or any other person. A list of examples of these occurrences appears in Appendix B to this publication. This Appendix provides more detailed guidance on the types of occurrences which are required to be reported. However, Reporters are left to determine whether endangerment is a factor and thus determine whether the incident should be reported.
5.4.3 A report should also be submitted on any occurrence which involves, for example, a defective condition or unsatisfactory behaviour or procedure which did not immediately endanger the aircraft but which, if allowed to continue uncorrected, or if repeated in different, but likely, circumstances, would create a hazard.
5.4.4 It is of great importance to the success of the Scheme that the reporters keep firmly in mind the concept of 'endangering' or 'potentially endangering', as used in the above definition, when deciding whether or not to submit a report. The primary objective of occurrence reporting is to monitor, disseminate and record for analysis, critical or potentially critical safety occurrences. It is not intended to collect and monitor the normal flow of day-to-day defects/incidents etc. The latter is an important part of the overall flight safety task but procedures and systems already exist to carry out this function. In the main these comprise industry responsibilities monitored overall by the CAA. When appropriate, such systems also provide the necessary records for statistical purposes. In order to achieve the above objectives for occurrence reporting, the criteria for a reportable occurrence need to be set above, in terms of the effect on safety, the normal day to day defects or minor incidents. Over enthusiastic reporting of such items which fall below these criteria will involve unnecessary duplication and work to both the reporters and the CAA and will also tend, by sheer volume of data generated, to obscure the more significant safety items. Reporters should ensure that the content of their reports meets with the criteria and guidance laid out in Appendix B. Particular emphasis should be paid to ensuring that day to day operational anomalies, technical defects and routine reliability issues are dealt with via the normal organisational systems and procedures.
Unless of couse there's more to the story ??
Name and shame if it's down to simply being 'jobsworths' who don't understand what a MOR actually is
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
I think you will find that there are parts of the empire, some way south of Watford, where it is illegal to fly certain German flags / insignia.
Rod1
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
Well how about a well known GA airfield near Brighton, with a plane spotter for an ATCO? I have heard that this has happened at least twice before at the same airfield, both with imported aircraft still bearing the flag of the country on their tail.
What a waste of resources and time, which does sweet FA for flight safety and an 'open' reporting culture, surely the whole reason for the MOR system!
What next? MORs for aircraft with the wrong shade of paint being used?
What a waste of resources and time, which does sweet FA for flight safety and an 'open' reporting culture, surely the whole reason for the MOR system!
What next? MORs for aircraft with the wrong shade of paint being used?
Thread Starter
Re: How's this for being 'picky'
It was classed as a Grade E report; one which 'falls outside the remit of CAP 382 reporting requirements.
Type was Pa32 (no reg given but it did say UK registered); airfield Shoreham.
Still not worth reporting in my opinion, especially when other Grade E's include suspected fuel leaks, undercarriage malfunctions & lightning strikes.
Type was Pa32 (no reg given but it did say UK registered); airfield Shoreham.
Still not worth reporting in my opinion, especially when other Grade E's include suspected fuel leaks, undercarriage malfunctions & lightning strikes.
Re: How's this for being 'picky'
[RANT]
guy needs to go to Tesco, down aisle three, towards the back of the store on the left hand side, and GET A LIFE
The word Muppet was invented for this type of peson.
[/RANT]
guy needs to go to Tesco, down aisle three, towards the back of the store on the left hand side, and GET A LIFE
The word Muppet was invented for this type of peson.
[/RANT]
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
Sorry for the stupid question, guys but leaving aside the issue of whether it was worth reporting, why might it even have been considere an issue? Is it in some way illegal to carry a foreign flag marking on your aircraft?
Aiglon
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
I can only surmise that it must be, Aiglon.
Earlier this year a friend of mine had a similar issue with his 60's vintage glider. It has been in the country for decades after being imported from Germany.
After years of presumably having no problems, he mentioned that he was advised to get rid of the German Bundesflagge from the tail of the aircraft, a process that could end up being more complicated than it might first sound (particularly if it lifted the paint and forced him into a respray).
As long as an aircraft is properly registered, I don't see the problem... but somebody somewhere must have identified one.
Earlier this year a friend of mine had a similar issue with his 60's vintage glider. It has been in the country for decades after being imported from Germany.
After years of presumably having no problems, he mentioned that he was advised to get rid of the German Bundesflagge from the tail of the aircraft, a process that could end up being more complicated than it might first sound (particularly if it lifted the paint and forced him into a respray).
As long as an aircraft is properly registered, I don't see the problem... but somebody somewhere must have identified one.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
This is why I live in America. We generally just don't see this kind of pettyness over here. For all its faults, it's much more of a live and let live culture and if you give a guy a uniform, he doesn't necessarily turn into Hitler.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
Could be that the person making the report felt the flag infringed Article 5 (3)(a) of the ANO:
If so, then I suggest the individual making the report needs to get a life 
How a national flag could make anyone think that a aircraft clearly bearing prominent G registration markings (I assume it was) could be registered anywhere else is beyond me 
Aiglon
(3) Subject to paragraph (4), an aircraft shall not bear any marks which purport to indicate—
(a) that the aircraft is registered in a country in which it is not in fact registered;
(a) that the aircraft is registered in a country in which it is not in fact registered;
How a national flag could make anyone think that a aircraft clearly bearing prominent G registration markings (I assume it was) could be registered anywhere else is beyond me Aiglon
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
He'd have a field day with BA's aboriginal art tails. (Not to mention the many commercial airliners like this one with "British" written on the side when they are wet-leased on foreign registrations.)
Last edited by Mike Cross; 8th Jan 2006 at 13:11.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
Maybe this report was filled in by one of the monkeys wot rote the complete wurks of Shakespear (If you took an infinite number of monkeys and gave them each a typewriter and an infinite amount of time, would one of them be able to type out the complete works of ...?). I'd presume that the prat who filled in the form was bored because their imaginary friend left the previous week after an argument. If I was operating at the airfield where this was filed, I'd have stickers made up and plastered over everything.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
I used to have a small Dutch flag on the tail of my shared Robin. Recently saw a picture of it and thought I'd need to get one for the Maule.
This has certainly given me the impetus to get on with it.
This has certainly given me the impetus to get on with it.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
It's probably the same guy who tried to stop me walking to the aircraft parked out side the hangar without a dayglo vest on. I told him to F off and funny old thing he did, but not before he tried to report me to the ATCO who also told him to get a life!
Re: How's this for being 'picky'
Originally Posted by Onan the Clumsy
This is why I live in America. We generally just don't see this kind of pettyness over here. For all its faults, it's much more of a live and let live culture and if you give a guy a uniform, he doesn't necessarily turn into Hitler.
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Re: How's this for being 'picky'
I wonder if muppet in question would have applauded just as much as the rest of the Duxford crowd to this Flying Legends participant:
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8...meister8iz.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8...meister8iz.jpg
