Great Flyer article from Flying Dutch on Mountain Flying
Grandpa Aerotart
flyin'Dutch'
Generally speaking you should be making a normal approach to steep strips...and that makes it look a lot steeper than it is....try this...stretch out your arm aimed slightly down to simulate a three degree approach with your hand cocked to look like the level airstrip at the bottom...then cock your hand up like a 20% slope strip and you'll see why it looks so much steeper.
I did about 6000 hrs of bush flying in my 20s and approaching flat like some of those vids above was a sure recipe for disaster at high DAs....at really steep strips you had to look really 'high' all the way down...conversely the strips where you landed downhill before staggering through a wet, muddy patch and rolling up the hill on the other side you needed to look low all the way down final.
In actual fact though you were always making the same approach that you would make in a normal landing at a long strip...except for steep ones you added extra speed to give the energy required for round out and flare.
Not many of the strips were as extremely short as some here but 350m was common and we were dragging FULLY loaded C185s and Islanders in and out....ISA+20 and elevations around 5000-8000+ plus tropical weather rounded off the fun....many were as rough as guts too.
Shedloads of fun...but after 6000+ hrs I figured my luck couldn't hold forever....and went on to boring airline flying
Generally speaking you should be making a normal approach to steep strips...and that makes it look a lot steeper than it is....try this...stretch out your arm aimed slightly down to simulate a three degree approach with your hand cocked to look like the level airstrip at the bottom...then cock your hand up like a 20% slope strip and you'll see why it looks so much steeper.
I did about 6000 hrs of bush flying in my 20s and approaching flat like some of those vids above was a sure recipe for disaster at high DAs....at really steep strips you had to look really 'high' all the way down...conversely the strips where you landed downhill before staggering through a wet, muddy patch and rolling up the hill on the other side you needed to look low all the way down final.
In actual fact though you were always making the same approach that you would make in a normal landing at a long strip...except for steep ones you added extra speed to give the energy required for round out and flare.
Not many of the strips were as extremely short as some here but 350m was common and we were dragging FULLY loaded C185s and Islanders in and out....ISA+20 and elevations around 5000-8000+ plus tropical weather rounded off the fun....many were as rough as guts too.
Shedloads of fun...but after 6000+ hrs I figured my luck couldn't hold forever....and went on to boring airline flying
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Haven't seen the article but the secrets of the QM had to reach the mainstream UK sometime. A few articles over the years about lobbing into the altiports and getting local endorsements but the full thing has never really been a must have tick for us Brits.
FD/IS I'll have to read the story. If the cub was rubbish it'll have been a one-off. I used one throughout the 20 hours I did for the rating except for the mandatory visit and test at another altiport other than base - and as Courcheval was handiest we used a D140 for its wheels - the cub being on skis only. I guess if I read the article I'll find out if your cub was wheel/ski which may have contributed to the problem. I wouldn't know I've never flown one with that fit.
All things considered for fun, security and handling the the PA-18-150 is hard to beat. Much less than 150 horse and even a Cub is struggling to get round the altisurfaces and glaciers on a full training day, Maule's are a tad heavy, the Mousquetaire is nice and capable, handy if your sharing the transits between trainees but still a bit of a car, expensive and hard work to dig out if you have that misfortune.
QDMYou'll have your own reasons for going to Meribel - I did as well. Great place to train and loads of places to try-many not in the AIP. Soloing from there is also good - you can build your experience on the altisurfaces and several of the big glaciers but you'll look up to the NE and always hanker to go to the Mt Blanc massif and once there you'll want to stay. Megeve is the answer.
BTW from your posts and locale I guess you might know a medic -P.H. I wonder does he fly ? If not - it's just series of connections - nae bother. Enjoy the Alps when you get there I can't anymore Prosper M got me. Guess I'll just have to ski now - what a bore.
dow.
FD/IS I'll have to read the story. If the cub was rubbish it'll have been a one-off. I used one throughout the 20 hours I did for the rating except for the mandatory visit and test at another altiport other than base - and as Courcheval was handiest we used a D140 for its wheels - the cub being on skis only. I guess if I read the article I'll find out if your cub was wheel/ski which may have contributed to the problem. I wouldn't know I've never flown one with that fit.
All things considered for fun, security and handling the the PA-18-150 is hard to beat. Much less than 150 horse and even a Cub is struggling to get round the altisurfaces and glaciers on a full training day, Maule's are a tad heavy, the Mousquetaire is nice and capable, handy if your sharing the transits between trainees but still a bit of a car, expensive and hard work to dig out if you have that misfortune.
QDMYou'll have your own reasons for going to Meribel - I did as well. Great place to train and loads of places to try-many not in the AIP. Soloing from there is also good - you can build your experience on the altisurfaces and several of the big glaciers but you'll look up to the NE and always hanker to go to the Mt Blanc massif and once there you'll want to stay. Megeve is the answer.
BTW from your posts and locale I guess you might know a medic -P.H. I wonder does he fly ? If not - it's just series of connections - nae bother. Enjoy the Alps when you get there I can't anymore Prosper M got me. Guess I'll just have to ski now - what a bore.
dow.
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FD/IS.............................. If the cub was rubbish it'll have been a one-off.
IS is all on his uppy own when it comes to the Cub side of the story.
There are few stauncher supporters of the mark than moi meme.
Ian is fully aware that he is a brave man.
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Finally got to scan the article in Smugs in the station and couldn't see the Cub insults - maybe they were elsewhere in the comic.
Anyway the story gave a bit of a feel for the fabulously different world of French Alpine flying. FD I should've read your profile before calling Maules a bit portly. That's only as far as ski work goes, actually I always wanted one even though calling a fabric covered road kill hauler a Lunar Rocket is asking for trouble.
As a by the by, QDM remarked that handling is handling, which is true, but I guess a few of the Winter techniques are a bit alien to flat field British tailwheelers. They are the main differences which account for the two classes of Autorisation Montagne. The Winter rating gives both Sol et Extension Niege privileges though you'd be wise to check out in summer conditions before pitching up with your Winter aquired piece of paper. The stronger anabatic (read tail) and other wind effects and very variable summer surfaces are tricky as you probably found. Is that just Megeve in the photographs ? - I don't recognize it without snow.
I guess the strangest piece of adaptation you go through is the method of accessing some of the choice corners of the glaciers dealing with slopes around 40%, applying up to full power after touchdown then as you continue up slope, stick forward to unload the tail - just enough - hard rudder, aileron to prevent a ski digging in, power off while aligning with the take off axis reference and then plummeting again whilst controlling any transverse slide. It is different even from the altisurface techniques on differing T/O and landing axes and each place has its own problems.
C Chuckles said that normal approach speeds and gradients should be used and indeed the French teach that, but with significant differences. They use 300ft circuits on the glaciers and altisurfaces, and use power to control speed and attitude to control aiming point - pointe de touche is a separate assessment, and as he also said speeds can be incremented for steep slopes and turbulence naturally. Though since it's all for fun why bother if it's bumpy? You don't carry a shovel and snow shoes for nothing. I couldn't say why M Giraud used such high speeds but from the film there appears to be a good 15 kt breeze on the Dome de Gouter. I've only met two other Frenchmen who've repeated that flight - one in a PA-18 and they didn't mention excessive speed.
As for Fourchu - I can see the attraction but I never had the currency or skill to try it. No French instructor that I knew would go there, though there are two fairly regular British winter visitors that I know of.
It does get busy up on the glaciers especially on the first day after a spell of snow so a bit of Frech is mightily helpful.
Everybody should go there but fortunately few do.
dow
Anyway the story gave a bit of a feel for the fabulously different world of French Alpine flying. FD I should've read your profile before calling Maules a bit portly. That's only as far as ski work goes, actually I always wanted one even though calling a fabric covered road kill hauler a Lunar Rocket is asking for trouble.
As a by the by, QDM remarked that handling is handling, which is true, but I guess a few of the Winter techniques are a bit alien to flat field British tailwheelers. They are the main differences which account for the two classes of Autorisation Montagne. The Winter rating gives both Sol et Extension Niege privileges though you'd be wise to check out in summer conditions before pitching up with your Winter aquired piece of paper. The stronger anabatic (read tail) and other wind effects and very variable summer surfaces are tricky as you probably found. Is that just Megeve in the photographs ? - I don't recognize it without snow.
I guess the strangest piece of adaptation you go through is the method of accessing some of the choice corners of the glaciers dealing with slopes around 40%, applying up to full power after touchdown then as you continue up slope, stick forward to unload the tail - just enough - hard rudder, aileron to prevent a ski digging in, power off while aligning with the take off axis reference and then plummeting again whilst controlling any transverse slide. It is different even from the altisurface techniques on differing T/O and landing axes and each place has its own problems.
C Chuckles said that normal approach speeds and gradients should be used and indeed the French teach that, but with significant differences. They use 300ft circuits on the glaciers and altisurfaces, and use power to control speed and attitude to control aiming point - pointe de touche is a separate assessment, and as he also said speeds can be incremented for steep slopes and turbulence naturally. Though since it's all for fun why bother if it's bumpy? You don't carry a shovel and snow shoes for nothing. I couldn't say why M Giraud used such high speeds but from the film there appears to be a good 15 kt breeze on the Dome de Gouter. I've only met two other Frenchmen who've repeated that flight - one in a PA-18 and they didn't mention excessive speed.
As for Fourchu - I can see the attraction but I never had the currency or skill to try it. No French instructor that I knew would go there, though there are two fairly regular British winter visitors that I know of.
It does get busy up on the glaciers especially on the first day after a spell of snow so a bit of Frech is mightily helpful.
Everybody should go there but fortunately few do.
dow
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The Winter rating gives both Sol et Extension Niege privileges though you'd be wise to check out in summer conditions before pitching up with your Winter aquired piece of paper.
I guess the strangest piece of adaptation you go through is the method of accessing some of the choice corners of the glaciers dealing with slopes around 40%
why bother if it's bumpy? You don't carry a shovel and snow shoes for nothing.
I couldn't say why M Giraud used such high speeds but from the film there appears to be a good 15 kt breeze on the Dome de Gouter. I've only met two other Frenchmen who've repeated that flight - one in a PA-18 and they didn't mention excessive speed.
As for Fourchu - I can see the attraction but I never had the currency or skill to try it. No French instructor that I knew would go there, though there are two fairly regular British winter visitors that I know of.
Everybody should go there but fortunately few do.
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We did Megeve, partially as there is not a lot happening in the Alps in September and Courchevel/Meribel would have been difficult accommodation/food wise as there is hardly anything open.
Megeve on account of being so much lower is a more all year round lived in village/town.
The field there is very easy and the instructors would be happy to come and pick you up in the Cub from a nearby low land airfield and fly you into Megeve.
Megeve is very easy and both Courchevel and Meribel are only a short hop away from it.
Others that I know have had very good experience with Robert at Courchevel.
Think the bottomline is that you have to decide where you go.
Seems a very small world and everyone we met was very friendly and helpful.
Let me know if you want to have a chat.
Megeve on account of being so much lower is a more all year round lived in village/town.
The field there is very easy and the instructors would be happy to come and pick you up in the Cub from a nearby low land airfield and fly you into Megeve.
Megeve is very easy and both Courchevel and Meribel are only a short hop away from it.
Others that I know have had very good experience with Robert at Courchevel.
Think the bottomline is that you have to decide where you go.
Seems a very small world and everyone we met was very friendly and helpful.
Let me know if you want to have a chat.
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Can we have some more personal recommendations for the QM wheels then? Courchevel, Megeve, Meribel, other?
tKF
