Things to do, and things not to do.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
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From: UK
Things to do, and things not to do.
There is a variety of things we can do to keep us sharp. Some dont appear to carry much risk others rather more.
Some examples, PFLs, stalls, steep turns, practice Pan calls (!), but what about fan stops on climb out, steep(ish) turns in IMC or unusual attitudes in IMC, and very low level flying. Then there are the more unusual like practice radio failures with a return to base and switching off the master switch in flight. I always remember an instructor stopping the engine in the downwind and leaving me to get on with the landing, restarting it as we ran along the runway. It came as a hell of a surprise too his "new" student I can tell you.
What do you do, including the more unusual to keep you sharp, what would you do only with a FI aboard and what do you consider too risky in any circumstances?
Some examples, PFLs, stalls, steep turns, practice Pan calls (!), but what about fan stops on climb out, steep(ish) turns in IMC or unusual attitudes in IMC, and very low level flying. Then there are the more unusual like practice radio failures with a return to base and switching off the master switch in flight. I always remember an instructor stopping the engine in the downwind and leaving me to get on with the landing, restarting it as we ran along the runway. It came as a hell of a surprise too his "new" student I can tell you.
What do you do, including the more unusual to keep you sharp, what would you do only with a FI aboard and what do you consider too risky in any circumstances?
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Up there somewhere
Thinking about unusual emergencies, not just the ones in the FRCs and what you would do about it (thinking outside the box). Make up scenarios and then start complicating them!
I can post some examples if people want.
I can post some examples if people want.
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Westward TV
It's good to realise that not every emergency is a failed power unit. Try some of these in the circuit (with an instructor if you feel you need a little advice)
1) Try flying a circuit with a stuck throttle (ie full or partial power).
2) Fly a circuit with failed ailerons or failed elevator, or both.
3) Trim cable has snapped. Leaving the aircraft in full nose down/up trim.
4) Imagine that you had a massive puncture on rotate and need to land a much as possible on the good wheel.
5) You engine has just chucked a large amount of oil on the windscreen. Perform a landing using only the DV window (probably best get an instructor to act as safety pilot).
Knowing that you can deal with all kinds of emergencies, not just engine failures, will certainly make you a better , if not more cautious pilot.
1) Try flying a circuit with a stuck throttle (ie full or partial power).
2) Fly a circuit with failed ailerons or failed elevator, or both.
3) Trim cable has snapped. Leaving the aircraft in full nose down/up trim.
4) Imagine that you had a massive puncture on rotate and need to land a much as possible on the good wheel.
5) You engine has just chucked a large amount of oil on the windscreen. Perform a landing using only the DV window (probably best get an instructor to act as safety pilot).
Knowing that you can deal with all kinds of emergencies, not just engine failures, will certainly make you a better , if not more cautious pilot.
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From: Up there somewhere
Birdstrike - damage to fuselage/flaps/engine etc - what sort of approach you would make?
Fuel shortage
Total instrument failure
Stuck ASI + any combination
Do you know what to do if you have an RT failure? Do you know the procedures for joining with no RT? Do you know what ATC flares/lights mean?
If practising unusual emergencies, do it with an instructor or at height (for simulated aileron failure etc)
Fuel shortage
Total instrument failure
Stuck ASI + any combination
Do you know what to do if you have an RT failure? Do you know the procedures for joining with no RT? Do you know what ATC flares/lights mean?
If practising unusual emergencies, do it with an instructor or at height (for simulated aileron failure etc)
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From: wakefield
Excelent idea for a thread!
How do you simulate for failed ailerons or elevator?
no one ever suggested any proceedure for such eventualities during my training so I assumed that if either failed it was curtains, so to speak.
How do you simulate for failed ailerons or elevator?
no one ever suggested any proceedure for such eventualities during my training so I assumed that if either failed it was curtains, so to speak.
Spicy Meatball
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Liverpool UK
Fainting 
Seriously though, I think this is a good thread - I am yet to pass the PPL so haven't reached the stage of the above thinking, but can understand how incredibly useful/sensible it would be to remain current in the described situations. I dread the thought of failed aeilerons though, would you use the rudder to initiate roll?
Maz
Seriously though, I think this is a good thread - I am yet to pass the PPL so haven't reached the stage of the above thinking, but can understand how incredibly useful/sensible it would be to remain current in the described situations. I dread the thought of failed aeilerons though, would you use the rudder to initiate roll?
Maz
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Ireland
Mazzy,
Failed ailerons wouldn't be a huge problem, assuming you keep the speed up to use the rudder. Even failed elevator controls could be survivable, if the trim system is intact, and even if it isn't there's a speed at which you'll be flying in trim anyway. If you want to simulate jammed controls, just hold them neutral in the axis you're failing (easier said then done) and use the others in place, whether it's trim or primary controls.
Very surprising that there's people out there who think that non-working (jammed) ailerons would nessecarily kill you. Best person to ask about this would be an aerobatic pilot or a test pilot - I've only done the control failure stuff in sims.
Failed ailerons wouldn't be a huge problem, assuming you keep the speed up to use the rudder. Even failed elevator controls could be survivable, if the trim system is intact, and even if it isn't there's a speed at which you'll be flying in trim anyway. If you want to simulate jammed controls, just hold them neutral in the axis you're failing (easier said then done) and use the others in place, whether it's trim or primary controls.
Very surprising that there's people out there who think that non-working (jammed) ailerons would nessecarily kill you. Best person to ask about this would be an aerobatic pilot or a test pilot - I've only done the control failure stuff in sims.
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From: Here to Eternity
I actually carried out a similar excercise just before my GFT-equivalent: writing down every possible emergency I could think of and then writing down the immediate actions/flight profiles in a big table. It ran to three pages (!) -- a similar list to mine can be found at http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189016-1.html (altho' I'd argue a few of these are a bit unnecessary...)
The best practice I found (if you've got an instructor handy) is to try a few compounded emergencies -- everyone *should* be able to fly a stuck throttle approach, or a simulated SRA, or a no compass/no gyro recovery, but how about all three at the same time?
my instructor liked being a bit of a bastard, y'see...
-D
The best practice I found (if you've got an instructor handy) is to try a few compounded emergencies -- everyone *should* be able to fly a stuck throttle approach, or a simulated SRA, or a no compass/no gyro recovery, but how about all three at the same time?
my instructor liked being a bit of a bastard, y'see...
-D
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: UK
Some of these scenarios don't sound nice at all. Good ones to try would be flying an approach and landing with no ASI, and navigating with no DI, so just using the compass and allowing for turning errors.
If at my local airport, I'd just give the tower a phone call when I'm at the VRP, a mobile phone join 
Do you know the procedures for joining with no RT?
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From: Up there somewhere
Aerobatics, followed by PFL from the overhead if the circuit's quiet. Pick your aiming point well into the runway (assuming it's long enough) and see if you can actually hit it.
Dimensional - same as you. I even was expecting a total instrument failure leading to formation lead/follow back for a normal cct(alas, it never happened!).
Mazzy...whether or not you have passed your PPL, you will still be flying solo. Every emergency and scenario is worth a thought. I always sit and conjure up scenarios. As a student pilot, always fear the worst
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From: Here to Eternity
a total instrument failure leading to formation lead/follow back for a normal cct
-D
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From: wakefield
Failed ailerons wouldn't be a huge problem, assuming you keep the speed up to use the rudder. Even failed elevator controls could be survivable
Would they be likely to flap around?
Very interesting subject this.
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
approach and landing with no ASI
Just like I don't have a problem flying in cloud -- with an instructor sitting next to me.
From which I deduce that it's the empty right hand seat that actually kills people, and it's not clear how to simulate that.
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From: Up there somewhere
Dimensional:
We had a stude a while back have that as an emergency, and if there's another a/c in the area why not get a loose lead back - lessens the work load as you know the form'n refs/power settings and they just fly speeds and you just keep up. Takes off some of the work load.
Interesting. Was that what you expected on your FHT? Although it's theoretically possible, I've never heard of someone getting impromptu form'n on their FHT. I'd have thought it'd be easier to try and recover as a singleton
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From: UK
From which I deduce that it's the empty right hand seat that actually kills people, and it's not clear how to simulate that.
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Kelowna Wine Country
This is a very useful thread.
Ailerons etc. I would not have thought a lost aileron would be survivable however at Abbotsford Airshow last month there was a very fine display of energy management flying without an aileron. It is survivable but do we have the skill?
After a recent accident the investigator took up another of the same model and explored the envelope flying with full stuck aileron and full stuck rudder and showed that the plane could be handled with either. That too is a scenario I had not thought to investigate.
Couple of years ago one of our group lost an elevator hinge and flew the plane down from nearly 10,000 ft to a water landing with the elevator trailing awkwardly and controlling with the other.
I had an exhaust break yesterday, couldn't see it but there was plenty of vibration and I did not know what that was (She's a pusher, engine is back there over the wing.) When I got home the air over the airfield was foul, on finals I was seeing 45 deg bank and getting thrown off line, threw me completely, Got her down to a really neat flare, just forgot to lower the gear. Big whiteline down the blacktop and I've got a couple of days fibregalssing to do. Lucky there was no other damage but, as we all know, distraction is a real bu**er. You may have practised all these scenarios but could you do it if you were getting thrown around and scared and still do all the checks?
I guess I just moved from "those who will."
Ailerons etc. I would not have thought a lost aileron would be survivable however at Abbotsford Airshow last month there was a very fine display of energy management flying without an aileron. It is survivable but do we have the skill?
After a recent accident the investigator took up another of the same model and explored the envelope flying with full stuck aileron and full stuck rudder and showed that the plane could be handled with either. That too is a scenario I had not thought to investigate.
Couple of years ago one of our group lost an elevator hinge and flew the plane down from nearly 10,000 ft to a water landing with the elevator trailing awkwardly and controlling with the other.
I had an exhaust break yesterday, couldn't see it but there was plenty of vibration and I did not know what that was (She's a pusher, engine is back there over the wing.) When I got home the air over the airfield was foul, on finals I was seeing 45 deg bank and getting thrown off line, threw me completely, Got her down to a really neat flare, just forgot to lower the gear. Big whiteline down the blacktop and I've got a couple of days fibregalssing to do. Lucky there was no other damage but, as we all know, distraction is a real bu**er. You may have practised all these scenarios but could you do it if you were getting thrown around and scared and still do all the checks?
I guess I just moved from "those who will."
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Retford, UK
I suppose the fine judgement to be made is whether it is too dangerous to simulate the problem. For example, haven't Canberra jets been lost in single engine practice?
Although they're not perfect by any means, it's quite fun to practice really radical emergencies on a PC simulator.
Although they're not perfect by any means, it's quite fun to practice really radical emergencies on a PC simulator.
