Cessna 152 or Tomahawk
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Cessna 152 or Tomahawk
I am torn between 2 schools in my area, just about to commence serious PPL training, have the cash, but from peoples experience, which aircraft is on the whole, the best?
Thanks
oh and if willby or indeed anyone who read my post about a month ago, reads this i passed my class 1 medical at Gatwick
Thanks
oh and if willby or indeed anyone who read my post about a month ago, reads this i passed my class 1 medical at Gatwick
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I would go for the 152, simply because most clubs have them, so if after you pass your test, if you go somewhere else to rent, you will feel a bit more confident.
Having said that I wouldn't base your decision on what type you will learn on, both are established trainers.
What you need to do is decide which school overall is the best for you.
Get down to both schools, and spend some time talking to the instructors and staff.
Find out who your instructor is likely to be, find out if you are likely to have the same instructor throughout.
See who you gel with more.
I would also get some feedback from current students , that way you will be able to establish if the aircraft are well maintained, the groundschool well run, the costings fair etc.
In summary get to both, drink coffee, ask loads of questions and get a feel for both places.
good luck and have fun
Flyfish
oh and congrats on the class 1
Having said that I wouldn't base your decision on what type you will learn on, both are established trainers.
What you need to do is decide which school overall is the best for you.
Get down to both schools, and spend some time talking to the instructors and staff.
Find out who your instructor is likely to be, find out if you are likely to have the same instructor throughout.
See who you gel with more.
I would also get some feedback from current students , that way you will be able to establish if the aircraft are well maintained, the groundschool well run, the costings fair etc.
In summary get to both, drink coffee, ask loads of questions and get a feel for both places.
good luck and have fun
Flyfish
oh and congrats on the class 1
Couldn't agree more - find the school where you are most comfortable and go for that.
I learnt first on Tomahawks, then on 152s. The conversion is no drama and both are good at what they do.
Best of British to you.
I learnt first on Tomahawks, then on 152s. The conversion is no drama and both are good at what they do.
Best of British to you.
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I learnt in a C152, but my current a/c has a bubble canopy and a low wing, like a Tomahawk The view out is far superior to a C152 or a PA28, so on that basis - go for the Tomahawk.
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I learnt on a Traumahawk and would deffo recommend it. It can be a bit 'lively' in the stall, but on the whole, a very good trainer.
My school had PA38's and 152's. I went for the PA38 on the advice of my instructor. He said the PA38 was more challenging to fly, and the transition from a PA38 to a 152 is much easier than the other way round. No idea if he was right or not.
As others have said though, I would definately focus my attention on the school rather than the aircraft type.
Good Luck
My school had PA38's and 152's. I went for the PA38 on the advice of my instructor. He said the PA38 was more challenging to fly, and the transition from a PA38 to a 152 is much easier than the other way round. No idea if he was right or not.
As others have said though, I would definately focus my attention on the school rather than the aircraft type.
Good Luck
Last edited by Tango Oscar; 5th Aug 2005 at 12:17.
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I've got 20hrs in a PA38 and would not recommend it. It's OK to learn on ("you learn PROPER flying, young man" kind of thing) but the thing is so unstable that it's very tiring to fly it for any distance. The stall behaviour (a rapid wing drop followed by an exciting plummet) is not too safe IMHO. And it makes sense to learn in a type which one will be flying afterwards. No substitute for currency on type.
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IO
Much as we normally agree on everything I'm sorry, here comes a first.
PPL, IMC and night all on a Traumahawk (even spun one). Never found it tiring, always found it pleasant. I think the best guide is later, when you're flying bigger and better. I'd go back and fly a Tommy tomorrow, but doubt whether I'd drag myself into a 152.
But as others have said - it's just a means to an end. The aircraft doesn't matter, the school does. You need the school that's going to make you the most proficient PPL in the most efficient way with your hard earned cash.
Plenty of time post PPL to worry about aircraft types and what you're going to play with next
Much as we normally agree on everything I'm sorry, here comes a first.
PPL, IMC and night all on a Traumahawk (even spun one). Never found it tiring, always found it pleasant. I think the best guide is later, when you're flying bigger and better. I'd go back and fly a Tommy tomorrow, but doubt whether I'd drag myself into a 152.
But as others have said - it's just a means to an end. The aircraft doesn't matter, the school does. You need the school that's going to make you the most proficient PPL in the most efficient way with your hard earned cash.
Plenty of time post PPL to worry about aircraft types and what you're going to play with next
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I learnt in both the tommy and warrior, pretty much 30hrs in both, altho abit more solo time in the warrior.
For GH I think the tommy is the best option, its more interesting to fly and has great viz, also more spacious. LIke has been said tho it can be abit tedious to do cross countries with since it always requires attention to keep it where you want it, which just increases the pressure on you when trying to learn x-c skills.
warrior is much more stable, too stable I think for decent GH, you can do alot to it and it'll just sit there, unlike the tommy that will teach you to be careful.
Not flown a 152 so can't comment, but I don't like highwings, its annoying not being able to see where your turning into! If I did it all again I think I'd still do it how I did. I recommend the tommy since it'll make you a better pilot, plus its got better viz.
For GH I think the tommy is the best option, its more interesting to fly and has great viz, also more spacious. LIke has been said tho it can be abit tedious to do cross countries with since it always requires attention to keep it where you want it, which just increases the pressure on you when trying to learn x-c skills.
warrior is much more stable, too stable I think for decent GH, you can do alot to it and it'll just sit there, unlike the tommy that will teach you to be careful.
Not flown a 152 so can't comment, but I don't like highwings, its annoying not being able to see where your turning into! If I did it all again I think I'd still do it how I did. I recommend the tommy since it'll make you a better pilot, plus its got better viz.
Ramasseur des pommes
I've just started leasing a Tomahawk for hour building, having done 78 hours in a C152 during and beyond training. Yesterday, I managed 6.2 hours, and was nowhere near as tired as in a 152. The 152 is much smaller and much less comfortable. I always thought that a sore behind was part-and-parcel of flying light aircraft, but yesterday's 6.2 hours was the most relaxing I've ever done. I've also flown Arrows and find the Tomahawk more comfortable.
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It's very difficult, if not impossible to be able to judge a flying school, until you have parted some money and done business with them. Why not have half an hour in the C152 with one school (kind of a mini trial) and half an hour with the other school in the Tommy? This will really be the only way to help decide.
I personally am learning on the Tommy, and do prefer it to the 152 for most of the reasons above, but the feeling of being able to look down in the 152 and see the ground, is awesome.
Best of luck,
Maz
I personally am learning on the Tommy, and do prefer it to the 152 for most of the reasons above, but the feeling of being able to look down in the 152 and see the ground, is awesome.
Best of luck,
Maz
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I have instructed on both types and the PA-38 produces a pilot who has less trouble converting quickly to other types and it also spins properly and requires the proper recovery action to be taken, in short it is the best of the two as a pilot trainer.
As an owner I would go for the Cessna as it is a much less trouble when it comes to maintenance.
As an owner I would go for the Cessna as it is a much less trouble when it comes to maintenance.
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I have about 20hrs in terrahawks and just short of a thousand in my 152 and would not get in another terrahawk for love or money. Nasty thing to fly.
152 is a great stable platform and the high wing gives great sightseeing. My 152 and I have done some great trips and following the new engine at the end of the month will be doing plenty more!
I fly a low wing twin most of the time and the view over a low wing becomes very samey after awhile with a high wing you can actually see where you are going. Poor viz in a turn is not a problem of you fly accuratly.
The great thing about getting back in the 152 after the twin is it feels like a twist and go moped, I hardly think about flying it which gives me plenty of time to look out the window and enjoy the view!
152 is a great stable platform and the high wing gives great sightseeing. My 152 and I have done some great trips and following the new engine at the end of the month will be doing plenty more!
I fly a low wing twin most of the time and the view over a low wing becomes very samey after awhile with a high wing you can actually see where you are going. Poor viz in a turn is not a problem of you fly accuratly.
The great thing about getting back in the 152 after the twin is it feels like a twist and go moped, I hardly think about flying it which gives me plenty of time to look out the window and enjoy the view!
Didn't want to mention the extra room as I thought that the reason the 152 was a snug fit was the extra inches that the intervening years had added to me.
I really liked the Tomahawk when I flew it nearly twenty years ago, in fact if I could find one to rent in East Anglia I'd be there tomorrow (quite literally).
I stalled it, spun it, did x-c in it, everything really and preferred it to the 152 in every way.
I really liked the Tomahawk when I flew it nearly twenty years ago, in fact if I could find one to rent in East Anglia I'd be there tomorrow (quite literally).
I stalled it, spun it, did x-c in it, everything really and preferred it to the 152 in every way.
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Both aircraft have their pros and cons, but there are no major advantages or disadvantages to either; they are both well-designed trainers. As flyfish and J.A.F.O. have said, choose your school on other factors (price, proximity to your home, feedback from other students, etc.). And Maz's suggestion is great.
I disagree. Possibly the aircraft that you flew had been in an accident or was otherwise severly out of rig. Anyway, the problems that you describe certainly don't match my experience on type, such as it is (6 hours).
the thing is so unstable that it's very tiring to fly it for any distance. The stall behaviour (a rapid wing drop followed by an exciting plummet) is not too safe IMHO.
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well, ive flown in a c152 for an hour now, but have yet to fly in a tomahawk, although have flown a chipmunk, SAE bulldog and a grob tutor, (bulldog was the best).
does a tomahawk have a similar feel to one of these above? (god the hollow fibreglass wings were horrible on the grob, made me think it wanted to me a seagull, the way it flapped its wings :S)
Thanks
does a tomahawk have a similar feel to one of these above? (god the hollow fibreglass wings were horrible on the grob, made me think it wanted to me a seagull, the way it flapped its wings :S)
Thanks
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I have about 700 hours Instructing in the PA38 and about 300 in cessna types.
Go for the school who has the instructor you get on with. That will have a far great effect than a different plane type.
Persoanlly I prefered teaching in the PA38 for various reasons.
Mostly to do with the fact you don't have to sit on each others knee and even with 2 big blokes on board your shoulders won't be touching. And with female students you don't invade there personal space.
You can adjust the PA38 seat forward and back.
It is a responsive fun aircraft to learn in. And you will have no problems at all converting to other similar small types.
The down side to it as a trainer is.
1. It has the most awful trimmer ever invented a real pain in the tits if it starts slipping.
2. The amount of rumour ****e which is spread about it which most issues were resolved before the mark 2 went into production.
It is safe spinning if you follow the POH
The tail won't fall off.
The tail does wobble about, its meant to.
The banging down the back is the ****ty spring that pretends to be a trimmer banging off the skin. They all do it.
Its a bitch in the stall. Its not if you smoothly bring it into the stall controlling it with the rudders, it stalls like any other aircraft. It gives a nice positive buffet and a definate stall which the wing drop can be controlled by the rudders. If your heavy handed it will wing drop. But even if the wing drops to 80-90 degrees down you can pick it back up with the rudder.
BUt saying that there is nothing wrong with learning in a C152.
If your small and so is your instructor most of the plus points have been negated.
MJ
Go for the school who has the instructor you get on with. That will have a far great effect than a different plane type.
Persoanlly I prefered teaching in the PA38 for various reasons.
Mostly to do with the fact you don't have to sit on each others knee and even with 2 big blokes on board your shoulders won't be touching. And with female students you don't invade there personal space.
You can adjust the PA38 seat forward and back.
It is a responsive fun aircraft to learn in. And you will have no problems at all converting to other similar small types.
The down side to it as a trainer is.
1. It has the most awful trimmer ever invented a real pain in the tits if it starts slipping.
2. The amount of rumour ****e which is spread about it which most issues were resolved before the mark 2 went into production.
It is safe spinning if you follow the POH
The tail won't fall off.
The tail does wobble about, its meant to.
The banging down the back is the ****ty spring that pretends to be a trimmer banging off the skin. They all do it.
Its a bitch in the stall. Its not if you smoothly bring it into the stall controlling it with the rudders, it stalls like any other aircraft. It gives a nice positive buffet and a definate stall which the wing drop can be controlled by the rudders. If your heavy handed it will wing drop. But even if the wing drops to 80-90 degrees down you can pick it back up with the rudder.
BUt saying that there is nothing wrong with learning in a C152.
If your small and so is your instructor most of the plus points have been negated.
MJ
I don't want to move on too far from the original question - to which the informed answer seems to be "where you feel most comfortable" and to which I'd add "and don't be afraid to change your mind and take your large sums of money elsewhere if you're not getting what you want and need" but I wondered with all this enthusing about the Tomahawk why do 95% of schools and clubs have their tired old 150s and 152s?
Is this all down to the kind of ridiculous rumours that spread prior to the level headed introduction of an internet based pilot's rumour network?
Is this all down to the kind of ridiculous rumours that spread prior to the level headed introduction of an internet based pilot's rumour network?
The T-Hawk seat does go forwards and backwards (just showing off if you ask me), which is great if you are the same height as me. I flew with a friend in a C152 - luckily he was doing the flying as I was entirely consumed with keeping my feet off the pedals. It really is a tight fit for some people. I was also told by someone that "if you can fly a tomahawk, you can fly anything". I can reveal, having flown something else, that this is nonsense. Compared to the 172 I moved on to, the Tomahawk was a doddle to fly.
Enjoy it, whichever you choose!
Ginge
Enjoy it, whichever you choose!
Ginge
