Fear of Heights

[acrophobic SPPL]

Hi all,

As my user name suggests, I have a fear of heights. I'm an SPPL with roughly 20 hours spread over a couple of years of disjointed training.

This year I finally decided to go for the PPL for once and for all as the flying bug just won't leave me. I have yet to go solo but am very near that stage.

As far as I'm aware, I have always had a fear of heights, nothing too serious but something I considered a healthy fear. Then in my 20's I developed an unexplained fear of flying, i.e. - big jets, going on holidays etc. This annoyed me so much that I had to learn all I could about flying which culminated in my first trial lesson. I was a bit shakey on the lesson but the bug bit me big time.

Now, when I do circuit work or fly around the control zone at 1000 feet I have no problem at all and feel quite relaxed even in rough air.

However, I have just completed my first dual cross country, more as an experience excercise than formal training (its a club I'm training with as apposed to a school) and when we climbed to 4000 ft I got quite rattled. I was surprised how different the view was between 1000ft and 4000ft.

Now I know that the plane doesn't know it's at 4000ft and I know that height is your friend when flying and I know that it's totally illogical to be worried but I'm very concerned that this will put an end to my flying.

At no stage did I ever feel like I was losing control but I did wonder what I was doing up there when it scares me. Unfortunately, my fear manifests itself in sweaty palms so my instructor had no problem realising what was happening. I had to point out to him that I get sweaty palms watching a scene in a movie with someone hanging off a cliff or tall building and consider it normal for me. I'm worried that he might tell me that flying is not for me.

So, is flying for me ? I've heard about pilots with a fear of heights before, Brian Milton if I'm not mistaken, is one so obvioously it can be overcome. Is there anyone on the board with a similar experience or a great method of curing this annoying phobia ?

All advice and help greatly appreciated.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Probably not much help ...

I don't like heights. I get seriously unhappy walking along a perfectly good path which is a whole foot away from a namby-pamby fifty foot drop, even when there's a fixed chain to hang on to. So unhappy that I'll walk the other way round an entire mountain in preference.

But somehow having only a couple of millimetres of aluminium separating me from a two mile drop to the ground doesn't bother me in the slightest ... no, I can't explain it either.

[Whirlybird]

I've always had problems with heights, to a greater or lesser degree. I used to not even be able to climb ladders, and I still tend to have difficulties on cliffs and similar. As for scaffolding or anything like that, forget it!

I'm usually OK when flying, but it manifests for me if I'm flying low and then the ground suddenly falls away. The first time it happened was flying over the South Wales valleys in a helicopter, when I was at about 500 ft, and the next moment at 2500 ft. And yes, I think a sudden climb might have bothered me in the past, but I'm gradually getting used to everything, and there's not a lot in aviation that worries me now.

There have been threads on PPRuNe about this in the past, and I was amazed at just how many pilots were scared of heights. It was quite common. So don't worry about telling your instructor. He won't tell you flying isn't for you, or if he does, get another instructor! What I'd do if one of my students had this problem is find out exactly when and where they were bothered, and take things gently, eg by climbing slowly and gradually in your case, and making sure you were happy, so that you could get used to it...and you WILL get used to it!

At the moment it sounds like you're adding to your anxiety by trying to hide the problem. Don't! We all have difficulties learning to fly, and if this is the worst problem you have, you're very lucky.

Take care, and feel free to pm me if it'll help.

Whirly

[AerBabe]

Me too. Absolutely terrified every time I took off, and I wondered how I'd ever go solo. I got over it, of course, and it's not an issue any more. However, I still don't like walking on ridge- or cliff-top paths, or standing on those clear panels on top of tall buildings. Stick with it and fly as often as you can - you'll be fine!

BTW, I've read that part of the reason it doesn't feel so bad in an aircraft is because you're sitting down.

[flying shrink]

I agree. Fear of heights is a very common problem. You have already prove to yourself that you can fly without it being in your way and the rest is about building your confidence as you fly further and higher. The worse you can do is to get stuck around a specific area of heights or flying and then believe you can't get past it. Feelings are just feelings and are constantly changing. However, if you do get stuck and it becomes a panic state, don't worry as you can get help for that. But, so far, in your case, you doing well and just keep doing it!

Good luck

FS

[acrophobic SPPL]

Many thanks folks for all your thoughtful and helpful advice.

Whirlybird - I reckon I was trying to hide it all from my instructor, I suppose I just wanted the feeling to go away and not be a factor in my training. We have discussed it now and the plan is to go up to 5000ft and glide back down. I'm actually looking forward to it but I'll have to practice my deep breathing exercises !

It is strange how many pilots are afraid of heights. My instructor said that he has problems on ladders etc. While we were having our chat, sitting in the parked aeroplane, a helicopter flew over. I was amazed to hear him say, as he pointed at it, "You'd never get me up in one of those things" ! (Thought you might like that Whirlybird)

flying shrink - nice to hear some professional advice. I'll keep at it and hopefully it will never become a panic state.

It will break my heart if this upsets my flying, I still can't see how I can enjoy it if I'm nervous or worried. Only time will tell I suppose.

[Mike Cross]

No point worrying about heights. Height never killed anyone, it's the ground you want to be scared of.

I've done climbing and abseiling, free fall parachuting, and skiied some pretty steep slopes. I learned to fly in 1974 and enjoyed fairly inept aeros from which I would commonly emerge the wrong way up and going backwards. None of it bothered me.

However a few years ago I developed the same symptoms you describe. I think it was at its worst when I was in a glider, looking across at someone else in another one and realising how much empty space there was below it. Happily that feeling has now gone and I hope it does with you. I think it's to do with the business of being "at one" with the machine, feeling that you're wearing it rather than sitting in it.

Took someone for a flight last wekend who had been in the Air Cadets and wanted to join the RAF. Trouble was he got vertigo when he was flying. He was happy as Larry as a passenger. When I asked him to have a go he was distinctly uncomfortable while handling the controls and quickly handed them back, following which he was fine and enjoyed the flight.

[yawningdog]

I've been flying since I was 17 and I'm now 37. If I go flying on a perfectly clear cloudless day above 3000ft, it is very likley I will experience some very uncomfortable anxiety. Sweaty palms, monotone RT, heightened anxiety, general feeling of "unsafeness". An agoraphobic reaction. The human mind's natural reaction to being in a potentially unsafe environment.

As a result of this I very much prefer to fly in marginal or IFR conditions, where there is less visual exposure.

It's a real shame, but it hasn't stopped me from flying, I have learned to live with it. This feeling of anxiety appeared after a 10 year break from flying. I was so surprised when it first happened that I undertook a lot of research and interviews in order to try and confront it.

My own way of handling the problem is to:

- FLY ONLY WHEN WELL RESTED.
- KEEP IN CURRENT FLYING PRACTICE.
- Eat a balanced meal before the flight, no coffee etc.
- Keep physicaly fit.
- Plan every part of the flight to the absolute tiniest detail.
- Concentrate of perfect airmanship.
- Fly in an aircraft with some sort of wing leveler or autopilot. (Not that you would need the autopilot, but the fact that its there is very reasuring)

My advice is don't let your body stop you from doing what you love, flying. Learn to deal with it. It may fade away, or it may linger forever, but it won't defeat you!

If anyone feels that it might be useful for them, I would be very happy meet and talk about the issue.

[DubTrub]

I was amazed at just how many pilots were scared of heights

No great surprise, really, since all pilots are human, and most humans are scared of heights! Me included.
But like acrophobic, I can cope en avion until above about 3000', then I get nervous too. So I stay low-level, where I can see the darn ground!

Funnily, if I use a mount other than my regular steed, I am not so nervous. I think it may be to do with the view of the horizon (my regular steed has little, whereas say a 152 or Pa28 has lots).

I am more happy inverted, where the windscreen is full of ground. Perhaps the human mind needs to know its position in relation to the horizon (but that might be just my excuse for falling over late at night when coming out of the pub!)

There is a vertigo situation, Whirly and Mike, associated with perspective when crossing objects of differing heights (like flying across the top of a tall mast...the ground hardly moves, but the mast top does!). I also get vertigo in steep turns if I look at the higher wing against the sky...). Perhaps someone could give a logical expanation for vertigo, other than the "inner ear" argument.

[Send Clowns]

This has long made me curious, as I have always scared of heights but I never doubted that I was a pilot. In my jobs I have known hundreds of pilots of all different backgrounds, and I have asked a fair few about fear of heights. I would estimate that 90% or more happily agreed that they had some fear of heights, mostly the similar level to mine (I hate edges unless there is a good barrier, hate even watching other people stand near them).

You seem to be going in the direction I would recommend, challenging yourself. I loved climbing and abseiling; there were times in each which terrified me, but I carried on and had my fear under control. I think had I avoided doing that I would now be much more restricted by the fear, maybe avoiding ladders (which I dislike).

How about either doing some aerobatics and spinning (you have to be high for spins, and the worst has happened!), or even go abseiling to challenge your fear in another environment?

Yawningdog

That probably makes you a damned good club pilot!

[bar shaker]

I learnt to fly to cure my fear of heights and it worked. I used to be terrified.

Now, whilst I have no fear of height in a/c (been over FL100 on perfect viz days etc), I do occasionally get a slight pang on a high structure. But I did manage to do the Eiffel Tower two years ago, something that would have been unthinkable beforehand.

Just keep yourself very current and the fears will get less and less.

[Whirlybird]

Send Clowns' suggestions of challenging yourself may work for some. However, personally I've found such methods can be counter-productive. You really push yourself, do something scary, get terrified, and confim your fears all over again. It doesn't work for me. I find it's better to make haste slowly, just go a little higher each time, taking deep breaths, and stop when you've had enough. Pat yourself on the back for doing so well, and go a little bit further next time. That way, I can now climb a ladder to my top upstairs windows...if I have to. I still won't go on the roof though! But do whatever works for you.

A slight digression here, if I may. I recently found out that the women's light piston helicopter altitude record hasn't been broken since the 1980s. The person who holds it was delighted when I said without thinking that I'd like to give it a try! Then I thought about it.....around 18,000 ft (I think it's around that at the moment)...in a helicopter...arggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!

[Cat.S]

I too have a great fear of heights. I found looking straight down at the ground out of the side window in a steep turn sometimes brought that 'feeling' of vertigo on. My cure was to look forwards for a few seconds and I'd find it would then go away.

[muffin]

I normally have no problem in an aircraft, although I don't like cliff edge paths or looking out from the top of high buildings. However, as it was very hot for a short time a couple of weeks ago, I took both doors off my R22 and flew it around like that. While at low level say 500 feet or so this was OK, but I found that if I climbed to 1000 feet plus it felt really scary especially in steep turns!

[Kolibear]

I hate being over water. I'm OK in big jets flying to the US, but I really don't like crossing an expanse of water in an small aircraft. Flying to L2K this year was a major achievement for me.

But its not just flying over water that affects me, I dislike crossing bridges, I'm used to the Dartford Crossing now, but the Severn, Humber and Forth road bridges are too long for comfort.

In London, I'm the one crossing the bridges by walking on the kerbstones and on the Channel ferry, I'm the who isn't on deck. I couldn't lean on the rail and look over the edge of the deck. Sea cliff edges have the same effect too.

So I think I have a fear of being over water, but its amazing the feeling of security that 3mm of perspex gives you.

[flying shrink]

Hmmmm I can see a research project appearing on the horizon.......

[FullyFlapped]

Everyone has a fear of something ... it's perfectly natural.

Heights ? No problem.

Taxman/Bank Manager/Mrs FF ? Ooooeerrrrr .......

FF

[englishal]

Fly a low wing aircraft!

One trip a while back, me and a friend were flying over a desert in a 172, at 12,000'. It was turbulent and the atmosphere was very murky, you couldn't see that well ahead, but you could see down ok. When we landed he confessed that he started getting a bit of vertigo....which was funny, as I had too.

Never experienced this in a low wing a/c....probably as the wing stops the 12000' view directly down Not experienced it on a gin clear day at 12000 in the desert either, in a high wing or low wing......

[c_jephcott]

I have exactly the same problem. Above 3000 feet, I start to feel anxious about the height that I'm at. Steep turns and spiral dives have never been a problem. However, i have been reduced to a gibbering ball of nerves on a couple of occasions, both of which were away from flying. The first was when climbing the CN tower in Canada, and trying to convince myself to cross the glass floor. The second was climbing Sydney Harbour Bridge.

It's a perfectly natural reaction to have.

[tmmorris]

I once took a friend flying who was scared of heights, in a PA28. His fear was that he would open the door and jump out - it's on the passenger side, of course, in the PA28. No amount of persuading him that if he didn't do it, it wouldn't happen, or indeed that you can't open the door against the airflow anyway, would make him happy. We got from Kidlington to Enstone before we had to turn round, and he emptied the hip-flask of whisky he brought with him on the return trip. Luckily I was driving...

He won't come again, so I haven't been able to work on a cure.

Tim