Mayday Frequency
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Mayday Frequency
This is a 'what if' question.
Lets assume that you are crossing the channel, its a nice day and you are just enjoying the flight. You are tuned to London Info or someone similar and you can hear that there are maybe 3-4 other aircraft making the crossing somewhere near you.
Suddenly, the donkey up front decides that foreign fuel is not to its taste and stops.
Ignoring all the other vital actions, do you
(a) make a immediate Mayday call on London Info, knowing that there are other aircraft in the vicinity who hopefully would start searching for you, or
(b) change frequency to London D&D, make the call and rely on them being able to triangualate your position, alert the coastguards, helicopters, RNLI, cross-channel ferries etc etc, but lose the advantages of the nearby aircraft?
Does London Info have a big red panic button they can push to get London D&D involved?
Lets assume that you are crossing the channel, its a nice day and you are just enjoying the flight. You are tuned to London Info or someone similar and you can hear that there are maybe 3-4 other aircraft making the crossing somewhere near you.
Suddenly, the donkey up front decides that foreign fuel is not to its taste and stops.
Ignoring all the other vital actions, do you
(a) make a immediate Mayday call on London Info, knowing that there are other aircraft in the vicinity who hopefully would start searching for you, or
(b) change frequency to London D&D, make the call and rely on them being able to triangualate your position, alert the coastguards, helicopters, RNLI, cross-channel ferries etc etc, but lose the advantages of the nearby aircraft?
Does London Info have a big red panic button they can push to get London D&D involved?
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Cap413 says to always make the first call to the station you are already talking to.
But in the circumstances, I would go to D&D. Although there may be 4 others on London Info, there may be more maintaining a silent watch on 121.5.
If you were sighted by another aircraft, that would be very beneficial. If you were at FL65, you've got over 10 minutes and your track should give a good chance of being rescued as quickly as possible.
Personally, I would rather talk to Manston or Solent, than London Info, as both of these have a LARS.
The one thing to remember is that circling aircraft can only guide SAR in. Your best chance if a ditch is unavoidable, is to do it just in front, to one side, of a yacht, shouting as you pass it.
But in the circumstances, I would go to D&D. Although there may be 4 others on London Info, there may be more maintaining a silent watch on 121.5.
If you were sighted by another aircraft, that would be very beneficial. If you were at FL65, you've got over 10 minutes and your track should give a good chance of being rescued as quickly as possible.
Personally, I would rather talk to Manston or Solent, than London Info, as both of these have a LARS.
The one thing to remember is that circling aircraft can only guide SAR in. Your best chance if a ditch is unavoidable, is to do it just in front, to one side, of a yacht, shouting as you pass it.
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If I had 121.5 already on the standby frequency (and if not, why not?) then I too would be very tempted to cut the middle-man and go straight to the chaps at D&D. Otherwise, I wouldn't faff around dialling in another frequency because of the real risk of getting even that simple operation wrong - I reckon you probably lose at least 100 IQ points during moments of intense stress like that.
Squawking 7700 would be a VERY good idea and will get D&D involved anyway, regardless what frequency you're talking on.
I agree that there are better units to talk to when you're crossing the Channel. For the Dover to C-G-N route I always use Manston.
Squawking 7700 would be a VERY good idea and will get D&D involved anyway, regardless what frequency you're talking on.
I agree that there are better units to talk to when you're crossing the Channel. For the Dover to C-G-N route I always use Manston.
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I'd set 7700 immediately, that will raise alarms all over the place, both in the UK and in France. The Mode C altitude going down at some 1000fpm will also make it obvious to all what's happening.
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My vote would also be for 121.5 and 7700 for several reasons:
1) The call on 121.5 will be immediately triangulated on D&D 's magic map so you have a head start on being located
2) D&D will always be the first to call out the SAR facilities even if you make your first distress call on someone else's frequency
3) 7700 on the squawk will set (audible) alarms ringing at D&D and also (visually) alert every radar unit within range of your predicament
4) London FIS have no 'panic button' (at least not for this). They will simply call D&D by phone and pass on what you have told them. You can cut out the middle man in this case, which might result in a slightly shorter swimming lesson.
The exception to this is if you are under the CONTROL of an ATC unit. Then you MUST make call on their frequency so they know what you're doing and can move other things out of the way.
1) The call on 121.5 will be immediately triangulated on D&D 's magic map so you have a head start on being located
2) D&D will always be the first to call out the SAR facilities even if you make your first distress call on someone else's frequency
3) 7700 on the squawk will set (audible) alarms ringing at D&D and also (visually) alert every radar unit within range of your predicament
4) London FIS have no 'panic button' (at least not for this). They will simply call D&D by phone and pass on what you have told them. You can cut out the middle man in this case, which might result in a slightly shorter swimming lesson.
The exception to this is if you are under the CONTROL of an ATC unit. Then you MUST make call on their frequency so they know what you're doing and can move other things out of the way.
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Koli, we will be visiting West Drayton in September so put your name down for that when it comes up and you can have a chat with D&D themselves if you want. 
Gizajob
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I like these threads - always make me think...
How would London Info react to you 'disappearing' off frequency to call D&D? Would they find out some way on the landline or would they make fruitless calls when you didn't report your turning point and then initiate overdue action (which would be the point that they found out...)
I get a little annoyed/ concerned when folks disappear off my frequency without signing off - always makes me slightly nervous why they've gone - just changed frequency or gone down...
How would London Info react to you 'disappearing' off frequency to call D&D? Would they find out some way on the landline or would they make fruitless calls when you didn't report your turning point and then initiate overdue action (which would be the point that they found out...)
I get a little annoyed/ concerned when folks disappear off my frequency without signing off - always makes me slightly nervous why they've gone - just changed frequency or gone down...
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Do London info call D&D or ARCC Kinloss to raise the alarm?
I don't suppose it really matters who you contact first. Getting the ball rolling towards you is the most important. If you contact London info (do the controllers(?) have radars infront of them?), I am sure they would take details and hand you over to D & D. If you contact D & D first I am sure that they could contact London Info to let them know you have changed frequency. Getting your exact position across will greatly reduce the time taken to find you but whether that would be best done by radar or DF I don't know.
BRL, It would be interesting to know what coverage is like and how accurate the DF is over the Channel and other more remote parts of the the UK.
I don't suppose it really matters who you contact first. Getting the ball rolling towards you is the most important. If you contact London info (do the controllers(?) have radars infront of them?), I am sure they would take details and hand you over to D & D. If you contact D & D first I am sure that they could contact London Info to let them know you have changed frequency. Getting your exact position across will greatly reduce the time taken to find you but whether that would be best done by radar or DF I don't know.
BRL, It would be interesting to know what coverage is like and how accurate the DF is over the Channel and other more remote parts of the the UK.
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boomerangben:
I refer to my previous post:
"D&D will always be the first to call out the SAR facilities" (i.e ARCC Kinloss)
as I don't think anyone else has the authority to do so in this case.
The London FISOs (not controllers) are not allowed to have access to a radar for reasons of licensing, and they have to walk/run some 30m to get sight of one, which would mean abandoning the frequency on which you were telling them your problem. In the scenario described, you could of course call a Mayday and give position reports and maybe anyone in your vicinity might come looking for you. Ultimately however, London Info will pass your position report to D&D and they will try to locate you. Thus, as I have indicated, a call to D&D by you will get this process moving faster.
D&D will have no problem in letting London FIS know that you have left the FIS frequency.
By the way, London Info have no DF equipment available to them (not least because of the multiplicity of TX/RX sites they use). I don't know about the exact accuracy of the D&D DF triangulation over the Channel area, but I'm sure someone will.
I refer to my previous post:
"D&D will always be the first to call out the SAR facilities" (i.e ARCC Kinloss)
as I don't think anyone else has the authority to do so in this case.
The London FISOs (not controllers) are not allowed to have access to a radar for reasons of licensing, and they have to walk/run some 30m to get sight of one, which would mean abandoning the frequency on which you were telling them your problem. In the scenario described, you could of course call a Mayday and give position reports and maybe anyone in your vicinity might come looking for you. Ultimately however, London Info will pass your position report to D&D and they will try to locate you. Thus, as I have indicated, a call to D&D by you will get this process moving faster.
D&D will have no problem in letting London FIS know that you have left the FIS frequency.
By the way, London Info have no DF equipment available to them (not least because of the multiplicity of TX/RX sites they use). I don't know about the exact accuracy of the D&D DF triangulation over the Channel area, but I'm sure someone will.
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1) The call on 121.5 will be immediately triangulated on D&D 's magic map so you have a head start on being located
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D and D can and do triangulate on 121.5
If I was really mid channel, I would squawk 7700 and call Lille on 120.27
Lille has powerful primary and secondary radar that can see low down all the way across the Channel. More importantly Lille can scramble the French Securité Civile Chopper which spends its time between Calais and Le Touquet. The combination of your 7700-derived position and the extreme proximity of the French chopper give you a far better chance of being rescued quickly than any other course of action.
Make sure you ditch near a ship. There are normally plenty to aim at.
2D
If I was really mid channel, I would squawk 7700 and call Lille on 120.27
Lille has powerful primary and secondary radar that can see low down all the way across the Channel. More importantly Lille can scramble the French Securité Civile Chopper which spends its time between Calais and Le Touquet. The combination of your 7700-derived position and the extreme proximity of the French chopper give you a far better chance of being rescued quickly than any other course of action.
Make sure you ditch near a ship. There are normally plenty to aim at.
2D
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bar shaker is correct. I think maybe some pilots might need to re-visit air law or comms.
The fact is that even in the summer, you will die through relatively short exposure to the channel. Whatever you do, you need to make sure that when you have ditched, you are picked up as fast as possible. Nothing else matters.
The fact is that ditching near a ship (in front and to the side of its direction of travel) and getting yourself unambiguously painted on a secondary radar screen are invaluable. Similarly, the knowledge that of all the various authorities you might be talking to, Lille is the one with the helicopter at its immediate and direct beck-and-call; and the odds are that the helicopter concerned will be within 30nm of your position in the worst case.
This has bugger-all to do with air-law or CAPnnn, this has to do with the decision most likely to bring about your survival.
If you don't have 120.27 available (even on standby) as you get towards the French side of the channel, perhaps you should give it serious consideration. They are NOTAMed as not talking to VFR traffic at the moment - but don't let that deter you. from having the frequency tuned.
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2Ds,
Would the French helo cross the FIR though? If you ditched on the British side, I would imagine they would get on the blower to London.
Kolibear,
I am not sure that there is a significant advantage of having other small aircraft looking for you bobbing around in the drink. Once the aircraft has sunk, unless you have a flare, they are very unlikely to spot you. Best get the professionals involved right from the word go and it seems that 121.5 is the way to go.
Would the French helo cross the FIR though? If you ditched on the British side, I would imagine they would get on the blower to London.
Kolibear,
I am not sure that there is a significant advantage of having other small aircraft looking for you bobbing around in the drink. Once the aircraft has sunk, unless you have a flare, they are very unlikely to spot you. Best get the professionals involved right from the word go and it seems that 121.5 is the way to go.
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2Ds,
Would the French helo cross the FIR though? If you ditched on the British side, I would imagine they would get on the blower to London.
Would the French helo cross the FIR though? If you ditched on the British side, I would imagine they would get on the blower to London.
2D
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I think that this is one of those cases where you can either spout "air law" (which in this case has nothing to do with it) or consider the practicalities.
The point about time to get rescued is a very valid one. I believe the nearest helicopter base for SAR is now Wattisham. Quite incredible that the nearest base to the world's busiest shipping lane is an hour away.
The Lille option definitely seems the best and I will be using that from now on. Thanks 2D, that advice may just save someone's life
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, Callsign, Callsign, Callsign, Engine failure to 121.5 out.
10 secs or so.
Got to be the right way to do it
10 secs or so.
Got to be the right way to do it
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I agree with John above quick call to London info and then switch without delay to D&D.
Most airliners are listening to 121.5 these days so if you can broadcast a radial and distance from a nav aid (your GPS should give you the nearest nav aid or airport) the guys in the airliners can put this into the fix page on the FMC and pinpoint your position , they can't come to your aid but they can pass the info on and they will be able to hear you long after you are out of range of ground stations so can pass on a fix given just before you hit the water.
Most airliners are listening to 121.5 these days so if you can broadcast a radial and distance from a nav aid (your GPS should give you the nearest nav aid or airport) the guys in the airliners can put this into the fix page on the FMC and pinpoint your position , they can't come to your aid but they can pass the info on and they will be able to hear you long after you are out of range of ground stations so can pass on a fix given just before you hit the water.
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(and if not, why not?)
I'd call on the same frequency I was already on, sqwark 7700, pop the ELT, zip the survival suit up, make sure flares are in my pocket, aim for a ship, open the doors, tighten seat belts and ditch....
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call on the same frequency I was already on, sqwark 7700, pop the ELT, zip the survival suit up, make sure flares are in my pocket, aim for a ship, open the doors, tighten seat belts and ditch....
I'm personally in the 'Go Directly to 121.5 without passing GO' camp - if opportunity / time permitted, then a quick courtesy call to the ATSU I'm working to say 'G-xx QSYing to 121.5'. I know it's not CAP413, but I hope they'd let me off just the once!!
