Duxford.
Thread Starter
Mess Your Passage
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
From: Temporarily Unaware......
Duxford.
Have a pop.
I certainly am after shambolic treatment there.
Have a look at whats going on, on the Flyer Forum.
http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14507
I'm really fed up with attitudes like this killing GA
BTW i do have an axe to grind and am trying to resolve this with EGSU they are the ones acting in the unprofessional way i have tried to deal with this on a amicable level and the Director has delegated to incapable under managers.
Should anyone wish to know the exact details of my gripes i am not prepared to discuss them on the record here but will discuss with anyone who wants to know via e-mail or pm.
Behaviour like this is something i have never experienced anywhere.
Hope everyone else is having a good 2005 so far tho
Enjoy....
F.
I certainly am after shambolic treatment there.
Have a look at whats going on, on the Flyer Forum.
http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14507
I'm really fed up with attitudes like this killing GA
BTW i do have an axe to grind and am trying to resolve this with EGSU they are the ones acting in the unprofessional way i have tried to deal with this on a amicable level and the Director has delegated to incapable under managers.
Should anyone wish to know the exact details of my gripes i am not prepared to discuss them on the record here but will discuss with anyone who wants to know via e-mail or pm.
Behaviour like this is something i have never experienced anywhere.
Hope everyone else is having a good 2005 so far tho
Enjoy....
F.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Flash,
I was one of the instigators of the action which led to Duxford to reconsider its charging policy of the vets.
Although initially hesitant the then director called me to get things sorted.
Have sent you a PM.
I was one of the instigators of the action which led to Duxford to reconsider its charging policy of the vets.
Although initially hesitant the then director called me to get things sorted.
Have sent you a PM.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
God it was a terrible time that. Frank done well sorting things out, i think we paid for them or something like that by sending a payment to the equally brilliant Mike Cross and things went from there. I will never forgive the management for their initial stance though.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
Having heard the story from F. I'm simply disgusted by the way the whole thing has been handled. It's all rather reminissent of asking the Kindergarten class to run morning assembly.
I think Duxford is a great place with a fantastic collection, however from my on personnal experiences there I find it poorly run for visiting pilots (has anyone tried departing after an airshow? They have that long tourist train sitting idly by but use a fleet of minibusses speeding back and forth betwen the aircraft park and the crowd line).
I also resent having to pay for fuel (mine's a thirsty beast, an expensive landing fee and museum entry/airshow entry). I realise it's a business but why do I always leave there feeling like I've been had?
Best of luck Flash. I hope they wake up, but I won't hold my breath.
Still, at least ATC there is always courteous.
Oh sorry, my mistake...it isn't and they're not.
I think Duxford is a great place with a fantastic collection, however from my on personnal experiences there I find it poorly run for visiting pilots (has anyone tried departing after an airshow? They have that long tourist train sitting idly by but use a fleet of minibusses speeding back and forth betwen the aircraft park and the crowd line).
I also resent having to pay for fuel (mine's a thirsty beast, an expensive landing fee and museum entry/airshow entry). I realise it's a business but why do I always leave there feeling like I've been had?
Best of luck Flash. I hope they wake up, but I won't hold my breath.
Still, at least ATC there is always courteous.
Oh sorry, my mistake...it isn't and they're not.
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
From: South of France
ATC seem to have one jobsworth who should be removed immediately. He appears to delight in bo***cking people on the radio and giving vague or potentially conflicting information.
And, for God's sake, take the damn sign off the gate telling everyone to go up to the tower to report in. Oh, and put the "C" over the shop while you're at it.
Hummpfh!!
And, for God's sake, take the damn sign off the gate telling everyone to go up to the tower to report in. Oh, and put the "C" over the shop while you're at it.
Hummpfh!!
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
jobsworth !
I was forced to GA by the Duxford ATC when someone was just exiting the far end of the runway- the ATC guy kept quoting some rule or other and in my opinion the risks involved in a low hours pilot doing a GA are far higher than him landing at the start of the runway when an aircraft is exiting the far end.
In short the Duxford ATC is a flight safety hazard in this respect.
In short the Duxford ATC is a flight safety hazard in this respect.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
From: Ashwell, U.K.
Because of the closeness of the hard and grass runways, Duxford is classified by the CAA as having a single runway and therefore "simultaneous" movements are not allowed. This is in the PPR brief and other documents. A visiting pilot should know this and act accordingly. Whether Duxford can "instruct" a go-around is another question as they are not full ATC. I believe the runways are in the course of being separated which might improve things.
Thread Starter
Mess Your Passage
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
From: Temporarily Unaware......
Regarding FIS
I was to be validating here as a FISO ( NOT A CONTROLLER) and certain individuals love shouting at pilots. Particularly ones who called "vacated" prior to passing the holding points. ie not clear of the grass.
Pilots would normally have thought they have done the right thing.......(shouted)" Negative you are not runway vacated until you pass the xx hold........"
So you have just landed and already someone has put your back up. We all know what we say about people when we release the PTT!
I demonstrated to said FISO that a reasonable approach may work too.
Pilot called vacated identical situation "For your information you are not runway vacated until you pass the xx hold." pilot then reported after the hold and came up to tower to thank me.
Few words really easy non upset punter...........
Yep he does not help.......
F.
I was to be validating here as a FISO ( NOT A CONTROLLER) and certain individuals love shouting at pilots. Particularly ones who called "vacated" prior to passing the holding points. ie not clear of the grass.
Pilots would normally have thought they have done the right thing.......(shouted)" Negative you are not runway vacated until you pass the xx hold........"
So you have just landed and already someone has put your back up. We all know what we say about people when we release the PTT!
I demonstrated to said FISO that a reasonable approach may work too.
Pilot called vacated identical situation "For your information you are not runway vacated until you pass the xx hold." pilot then reported after the hold and came up to tower to thank me.
Few words really easy non upset punter...........
Yep he does not help.......
F.
Guest
Posts: n/a
For the purposes of vacating a runway: when the runway(s) is vacated, it is vacated. There is no requirement to be over the (last) hold line, as long as the aircraft is pointed away from the active surface.
If the Authority required that an aircraft has "vacated the licensed strip", than that would be the call.
If the Authority required that an aircraft has "vacated the licensed strip", than that would be the call.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
From: Dorset
At the risk of a thread divergence, I have always been told not to call 'Runway Vacated' until across the hold line. I've checked CAP413 and the only reference to a specific point where runway vacated is to be called (other than giving examples of phraseology) is when referring to a vehicle towing an aircraft, where it says
The definition does not appear in CAP 393 (ANO), CAP493 Pt 1 (Manual of Air Traffic Services) or CAP410 (Manual of Flight Info Services), although all refer to the call 'Runway vacated'.
Should I just accept that this is not clearly defined??!!
A runway vacated report should not be made until the vehicle (and tow) is clear of the designated runway area.
Should I just accept that this is not clearly defined??!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
From: Oxford
I must say, I won't be going to Duxford again for a bit. They no longer give free landings if you are visiting the museum, which I think is a bit stingy. And reading between the lines of a profile in a recent magazine I agree they do seem rather keen on emphasising how pilots can get things wrong, not how a FISO can help them...
Tim
Tim
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, UK
Duxford
Hi,
It seems I've had a totally different experience to most people when I flew into Duxford! FISO's were helpful and polite on the R/T and kindly offered me directions to the parking as I had not visited before. Went up to the tower after landing and had a really enjoyable chat with the two guys up there who offered me the TAF's for my return journey.
I agree, It's only a small walk to the main entrance from the tower and with all the aircraft there, including Concorde I can't see the problem - and there is of course the golf buggy style taxi!
Gave Duxford a call before I departed home airfield, think this was helpful as they had the opportunity to give me any necessary information before I left and ask if I was familiar with the procudures there. On arrival was given a left base join no problems.
Of course I'm not saying that what people experienced there hasn't happened; just not to me and I was more than impressed with the service and time I spent there relative to the money I paid.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Happy Flying!
CVT Pilot.
It seems I've had a totally different experience to most people when I flew into Duxford! FISO's were helpful and polite on the R/T and kindly offered me directions to the parking as I had not visited before. Went up to the tower after landing and had a really enjoyable chat with the two guys up there who offered me the TAF's for my return journey.
I agree, It's only a small walk to the main entrance from the tower and with all the aircraft there, including Concorde I can't see the problem - and there is of course the golf buggy style taxi!
Gave Duxford a call before I departed home airfield, think this was helpful as they had the opportunity to give me any necessary information before I left and ask if I was familiar with the procudures there. On arrival was given a left base join no problems.
Of course I'm not saying that what people experienced there hasn't happened; just not to me and I was more than impressed with the service and time I spent there relative to the money I paid.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Happy Flying!
CVT Pilot.
