Buying an Airplane
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: where I shouldn’t be
Buying an Airplane
I'm considering buying, fractional or in full, a GA aircraft for some time now. Disregarding any type at the moment, I was wondering what the experience of you that own were in regards to what you had expected in terms of accusation, maintenance, insurance etc.
None withstanding the fact that the price of the toys separates the man form the boys, but I think buying an airplane is perhaps on a higher league than buying a German sports car, which is why I haven’t yet…
How and what did you do when buying? Was it worth it? Did you sell soon after because you realized that it got over your head?
Thanks for your answers.
None withstanding the fact that the price of the toys separates the man form the boys, but I think buying an airplane is perhaps on a higher league than buying a German sports car, which is why I haven’t yet…
How and what did you do when buying? Was it worth it? Did you sell soon after because you realized that it got over your head?
Thanks for your answers.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 374
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From: Hellfire Corner
Without knowing more, it's hard to advise, but who can resist giving advice?
If you intend to fly more than aboout 100 hours a year, owning an aeroplane makes sense. It's there when you want it and the freedom and aggravations are all yours.
Insurance quotes shouldn't be hard to find once you have an idea of what you want. Maintenance costs can be reduced by flying a Permit aircraft, but note the word reduced. A much bigger issue these days is hangarage. There's no such thing as cheap flying, just flying and living cheaply otherwise if one's not in the German sports car income bracket.
As one who drives a banger, lives in a hovel and has a lot of fun, I'm exhibiting a bit of bias here, but if you really want to, you'll find a way.
Have fun! Oh and obey all the advice in articles in the magazines about buying an aircraft: follow your head not your heart. Just like I didn't.
If you intend to fly more than aboout 100 hours a year, owning an aeroplane makes sense. It's there when you want it and the freedom and aggravations are all yours.
Insurance quotes shouldn't be hard to find once you have an idea of what you want. Maintenance costs can be reduced by flying a Permit aircraft, but note the word reduced. A much bigger issue these days is hangarage. There's no such thing as cheap flying, just flying and living cheaply otherwise if one's not in the German sports car income bracket.
As one who drives a banger, lives in a hovel and has a lot of fun, I'm exhibiting a bit of bias here, but if you really want to, you'll find a way.
Have fun! Oh and obey all the advice in articles in the magazines about buying an aircraft: follow your head not your heart. Just like I didn't.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 223
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From: Toronto, Ont, Canada
I've never owned a plane, and probably won't own one in the near future.
But if I could somehow afford it, one of the most attractive reasons for owning would be for all-day / multi day trips, and avoiding the minimum daily rental fee.
Other common reasons, are the availability, and the confidence of knowing what condition your plane is in.
Life is short, if you can afford it, go for it !
Mike
But if I could somehow afford it, one of the most attractive reasons for owning would be for all-day / multi day trips, and avoiding the minimum daily rental fee.
Other common reasons, are the availability, and the confidence of knowing what condition your plane is in.
Life is short, if you can afford it, go for it !
Mike
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
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From: I have no idea but the view's great.
As someone who didn't listen to all the people who said join a group before you decide to buy outright I am perfectly placed to say join a group before you decide to buy outright.
That's especially true if you're wondering whether you can afford to buy.
That's especially true if you're wondering whether you can afford to buy.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,042
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From: Oxford
I've seen the 'magic number' quoted at 250hrs/year (below which it is cheaper to hire) - that was for a traditional group A spamcan, as a microlight probably makes sense on much less.
If only PFA aircraft were allowed in IMC I'd be a lot more tempted.
Tim
If only PFA aircraft were allowed in IMC I'd be a lot more tempted.
Tim
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 1,033
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From: South of France
I have owned a 4 seat tourer for 3 years now. One can show figures/costs in lots of different ways but here's my best shot. Hope it helps rather than hinders.
The costs were as follows:
£23,000 to purchase. Engine 850hours TT 3000hrs
Year 1 50hr £350 annual £2000 Insurance £1700 Parking £1200
CAA/Radio/other bits £1000 Total £6200 (ish)
Year 2 50 hr £400 STAR £3000 Insurance £1800 Parking £1200
Other bits £1000 Total £7000 (ish)
Year 3 Interior refit in Leather £6000 + £6000 for maintenance, parking etc.
Year 4 Sold half share for £16000 so now costing about £3000 per annum. My flying partner was carefully selected to ensure the same high standards of maintenance would be possible.
So, my net cost for 3 years has been £33,000 or about £11k a year, £900 a month, £225 a week or whatever way you want to look at it. Plus I still have a share worth around £15,000 given 18 months to the next STAR.
I fly twice a month to France, regularly to Newcastle and Bournemouth for family reasons and a few times a year into "fly-in" like Duxford etc. For £15 quid an hour to an instructor, I've redone my IMC completely.
Is it all worth it? For me, Yes. As to anyone else..go figure..
The costs were as follows:
£23,000 to purchase. Engine 850hours TT 3000hrs
Year 1 50hr £350 annual £2000 Insurance £1700 Parking £1200
CAA/Radio/other bits £1000 Total £6200 (ish)
Year 2 50 hr £400 STAR £3000 Insurance £1800 Parking £1200
Other bits £1000 Total £7000 (ish)
Year 3 Interior refit in Leather £6000 + £6000 for maintenance, parking etc.
Year 4 Sold half share for £16000 so now costing about £3000 per annum. My flying partner was carefully selected to ensure the same high standards of maintenance would be possible.
So, my net cost for 3 years has been £33,000 or about £11k a year, £900 a month, £225 a week or whatever way you want to look at it. Plus I still have a share worth around £15,000 given 18 months to the next STAR.
I fly twice a month to France, regularly to Newcastle and Bournemouth for family reasons and a few times a year into "fly-in" like Duxford etc. For £15 quid an hour to an instructor, I've redone my IMC completely.
Is it all worth it? For me, Yes. As to anyone else..go figure..
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
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From: Canada
I've seen the 'magic number' quoted at 250hrs/year (below which it is cheaper to hire)
Possibly things might be different in a high cost environment like the UK; but both renting and owning would be more expensive, so I don't see why the 100 hour formula wouldn't work there as well.
Anyway, in most cases it is probably irrelevant whether the number is 100 or 250, or any other figure. The average recreational pilot probably flies perhaps 30-50 hours each year (new owners often fly much more in the first year or two of ownership, but then taper off as the novelty diminishes); and renting will always be cheaper for that amount of usage.
I'm inclined to think that ownership very, very rarely makes sense from a purely economic standpoint ... but there are usually other, less tangible, benefits that may outweigh the added costs.
Owning a syndicate share can allow one to enjoy the best of both worlds; although if things go badly, partnership can raise all kinds of unique and unpleasant headaches.
The 'bottom line' (IMHO): there are pros and cons to all methods of gaining access to private flying, and compromises are inevitable for all but the extremely wealthy.
P.S. Thanks to strake for sharing his experience.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
N380UA
What's your budget, and what is the mission?
Without those, no sensible advice can be given.
My own perspective is IFR around UK and Europe, and for that you pretty well do need to be an owner.
Most rentable planes are junk and not suitable for IFR, and it's hard to find a syndicate where enough of the members agree on fixing something that isn't required for VFR.
But your requirements may be just flying on sunny days, and your budget might be £5000
What's your budget, and what is the mission?
Without those, no sensible advice can be given.
My own perspective is IFR around UK and Europe, and for that you pretty well do need to be an owner.
Most rentable planes are junk and not suitable for IFR, and it's hard to find a syndicate where enough of the members agree on fixing something that isn't required for VFR.
But your requirements may be just flying on sunny days, and your budget might be £5000
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Cheap and aviation are not compatible words when talking about owning aircraft (allthough it is a good description of a lot of pilots personalities)
I own my aircraft outright as I decided it was to much hassle to fight with people in a group to get things fixed. I like everything to work 100% and I like gadgets!
The sheer pleasure of being able to pull the plane out the hangar and fly it whenever I want and not get in it to discover the last person to fly it broke something is worth every penny. I also found I flew significantly more hours due to the fact that after fixed costs has been paid my flying was mostly just costing me fuel at 5gph. Average hours for me are around 350 with about 250 in my aircraft and about 100 in the twin.
I use the aircraft for Uk and north france trips and the twin for long distance. I tend not to fly many local hours prefering to land away. I also use it a lot during the week to fly to business meetings.
Fixed costs are around £4000 per year with hangar, insurance, maintanance etc and fuel/oil costs me about £25 per hour. I tend to just pay the bills as they arrive but a good way would be to open yourself a seperate savings account and ste up a standing order. Less painfull!
I own my aircraft outright as I decided it was to much hassle to fight with people in a group to get things fixed. I like everything to work 100% and I like gadgets!
The sheer pleasure of being able to pull the plane out the hangar and fly it whenever I want and not get in it to discover the last person to fly it broke something is worth every penny. I also found I flew significantly more hours due to the fact that after fixed costs has been paid my flying was mostly just costing me fuel at 5gph. Average hours for me are around 350 with about 250 in my aircraft and about 100 in the twin.
I use the aircraft for Uk and north france trips and the twin for long distance. I tend not to fly many local hours prefering to land away. I also use it a lot during the week to fly to business meetings.
Fixed costs are around £4000 per year with hangar, insurance, maintanance etc and fuel/oil costs me about £25 per hour. I tend to just pay the bills as they arrive but a good way would be to open yourself a seperate savings account and ste up a standing order. Less painfull!
