The Guild of Air Traffic Control Officers (GATCO) are organising a Controller/Pilot Forum at the St George Hotel, Durham Tees Valley Airport (aka Teesside Airport) on the 8th March 2005.
The evening will start at 1930 and run until 2300. There will be light refreshments (free!!) and a bar. The topic will be the deteriorating relationship between controllers and GA pilots. All welcome, come along and have your say!

What 'deteriorating relationship between controllers and GA pilots' ?? In your neck of the woods?

Doesn't seem to be a problem in my neck of the woods.

As an experienced ATCO and a GATCO member, I'd love to know what this is all about.

GATCO seem to have their own agenda in not consulting the grass roots when it comes to this sort of thing, they've never canvassed my opinion, nor the G/A community I suspect.

I can't make the meeting, but I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

Its not like GATCO to identify a problem that isn't there..............

Not a GATCO member, but am not aware of any specific problems either...

It baffles me a bit this one. In the past, pilots from this forum have visited LATCC/West Drayton, Heathrow/Gatwick/Luton towers and Farnborough LARS. Of all the visits, we have had some excellent feedback from both the controllers and pilots alike. Not once did we hear anything about this 'deteriorating' situation. The main problem that overwhelmed everything else was zone infringements. This was/is still a big talking point whenever controllers and pilots meet. This is based upon actual fact, i.e. the visits mentioned above. I would like to know where the GATCO people get their information/stats from.

Evil J, don't take this the wrong way, it is not having a go at you or your association with GATCO, I don't understand your rant in the above post. You seem to take this personally. Also if GATCO would like to set up a similar forum, say somewhere in the south like a hotel at Gatwick, then I am sure you would get a pretty good turn out. PM me if you would like to arrange something with pprune along these lines.

The problem has been well documented in "Transmit" and other magazines such as GASCO's "Flight Safety."
There is a perception that controllers deliberately refuse access to class D airspace without good reason, orbit first solos, obstruct the use of the term "tyro" etc. The situation has been discussed in NATMAC and DAP acknowledges that there is a problem. This is GATCO's attempt to pour oil on troubled waters and get controllers and pilots talking in a convivial atmosphere.
Why not fly in, take part, stay overnight and after a hearty breakfast depart the next day? After all we have eveything to gain and nothing(?) to lose.

I think those perceptions are 'old hat' and have to a large extent dealt with. I hang around on another GA forum and fly with the people there and I haven't heard these complaints for a long time. Still, anything that gets pilots and controllers talking over a beer or two has to be a good thing. I hope it's a success.

I'm missing something here. That perception may be real or not. But is it evidence of a deteriorating relationship between pilots and ATCO's?

Surely its more evidence of a deteriorating relationship between pilots and ATCOs (who must apply the rules) and DAP/Airlines/NATS/CAA (who set them)? That's certainly the impression I've had both from my own flying and also from attending visits to West Drayton.

For example, one ATCO told me he would happily allow my request to transit through Stansted's overhead were it not for the fact, due to the low ceiling on the Class D, I would have to be so low that he couldn't maintain separation if an airliner had to go round. [Yeah, OK, this was probably an excuse and he probably doesn't really want a stream of GA through on a Sunday afternoon but you get the point.]

That's assuming we can negotiate entry into Durham Tees Valley Darlington Middleton AKA Teesside International Airport's - Class D airspace.

I've heard somewhere that's a problem.

Don't forget, Forum in one months time. Hope to see lots of you there.

Sorry, Middleton St George is a bit too far for a meeting with the GATCO for me.

Hope that it brings about a positive result though!

Don't forget, Forum in just over a weeks time. Hope to see lots of Pilots there.

GMST - why do you want so many people there? You only need a few pilots and a few honorable old fashioned controllers to tell you what tw@ts some of you are at times. If there is a problem (there may be with a very very few pilots and very very few controllers) then this is not the way to achieve harmony.

Working Hard why don't you attend and have your say in the Forum?
Just a quick reminder of the Forum on Tuesday.
Many thanks to Pprune for allowing me to post this topic.
Hope to see lots of you at MME.

Like those in posts above, I should like to wish every success to the forum in Middleton St George, but it is too far for me also to travel just for an evening meeting.

I'm not aware of any particular deterioration in the relationship between GA and the ATCOs. Certainly, I think very highly of the ATCOs. (I have no idea what they think of me)!

Nevertheless, I think it is a very good idea for pilots and ATCOs to get together at intervals in convivial circumstances: the more we talk the better.

Perhaps such meetings should be arranged on a regular basis around the country, rather like the CAA safety evenings. I should certainly attend, even if there was not a problem relationship between GA and the ATCOs, just to get the latest information about what is going on in the Air Traffic world.

Broomstick