flying the TB20
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 250
Likes: 8
From: Earth
flying the TB20
Will start flying the TB20 Trinidad fairly shortly and can't wait!
Can anyone give me any hints on what its like to fly?
I'm current on twins so familar with the speed issue, but is the sensation of speed much greater as the aircraft is quite small?
Performance wise with 4POB?
Thanks very much,
S744
Can anyone give me any hints on what its like to fly?
I'm current on twins so familar with the speed issue, but is the sensation of speed much greater as the aircraft is quite small?
Performance wise with 4POB?
Thanks very much,
S744
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: Almost Scotland
Hired one fairly recently for an excursion with 3 pax. - very comfortable a/c to fly.
One large adult, and three others of normal size, liferaft, kit, etc., making us 7 lbs lighter than MTOW.
Performance exactly as it says on the tin (in the POH).
One large adult, and three others of normal size, liferaft, kit, etc., making us 7 lbs lighter than MTOW.
Performance exactly as it says on the tin (in the POH).
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
A TB20 can operate out of 500m tarmac at zero wind and MTOW. It's got loads of power. At Scilly Isles, one is airborne by the midpoint of the runway.
The issue with grass is much more that people with decent planes prefer to avoid it, rather than runway length. In the long run, one spends more money on gas seals and such.
There isn't a 4-seater which will take 4 present-day-sized adults and full fuel, anyway
But a TB20 gets closer than anything in that class. Among current model machines, the SR22 is the only comparison and I would choose a TB20 even then.
The issue with grass is much more that people with decent planes prefer to avoid it, rather than runway length. In the long run, one spends more money on gas seals and such.
There isn't a 4-seater which will take 4 present-day-sized adults and full fuel, anyway
But a TB20 gets closer than anything in that class. Among current model machines, the SR22 is the only comparison and I would choose a TB20 even then.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 0
From: TL487591
The TB20 is a groundhog, and I speak as an owner of several.
For an aircraft of its horsepower, the take-off roll is not exactly sparkling, an effect that is more marked when heavy.
St Marys is hardly a tough test of a light single. Let's see IO540 fly it onto (and away from!) Lundy, and then we can talk.
The two selling points of the TB20 are its range (326L usable at 50L/h and around 150 knots) and its useful load.
In the non-GT form, it has limited headroom for tall blokes with headsets on, and the avionics can be a pain to work on.
Other than that, a nice aircraft
2D
For an aircraft of its horsepower, the take-off roll is not exactly sparkling, an effect that is more marked when heavy.
St Marys is hardly a tough test of a light single. Let's see IO540 fly it onto (and away from!) Lundy, and then we can talk.
The two selling points of the TB20 are its range (326L usable at 50L/h and around 150 knots) and its useful load.
In the non-GT form, it has limited headroom for tall blokes with headsets on, and the avionics can be a pain to work on.
Other than that, a nice aircraft
2D
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 4
From: Hiding..... in one hemisphere or another
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
I don't have info handy but Lundy is shown in Navbox as 200m grass.........
One may as well talk about taking a TB20 into a heliport. It's not really applicable.
The acceleration of any 250hp aircraft with a VP prop is obviously going to be very similar, and if it has a decent cruise speed then it's stall speed in landing config isn't going to be far below the certification requirement which I think is 59kt. The takeoff speed is going to be similarly related. A max perf takeoff Vr in a TB20 is about 65kt.
I've been to 500m (LSPV) and that is quite close.
To operate a 1400kg plane with a 65kt Vr from 200m with a conventional takeoff technique one would need about 500hp.
Or else do a soft field takeoff where one floats in the ground effect; a TB20 would get "airborne" in about 150m but I would not do that unless absolutely desperate, and anyway one would need the extra distance after the runway. Why take the risk?
Why is Lundy relevant to a TB20 discussion?
I've PMd the OP with some details.
One may as well talk about taking a TB20 into a heliport. It's not really applicable.
The acceleration of any 250hp aircraft with a VP prop is obviously going to be very similar, and if it has a decent cruise speed then it's stall speed in landing config isn't going to be far below the certification requirement which I think is 59kt. The takeoff speed is going to be similarly related. A max perf takeoff Vr in a TB20 is about 65kt.
I've been to 500m (LSPV) and that is quite close.
To operate a 1400kg plane with a 65kt Vr from 200m with a conventional takeoff technique one would need about 500hp.
Or else do a soft field takeoff where one floats in the ground effect; a TB20 would get "airborne" in about 150m but I would not do that unless absolutely desperate, and anyway one would need the extra distance after the runway. Why take the risk?
Why is Lundy relevant to a TB20 discussion?
I've PMd the OP with some details.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 0
From: TL487591
The suggestion was that TB20s need a lot of runway - a suggestion that you appeared to contest.
There are four seat SELS with significantly better take-off performance than a TB20 without 500HP engines.
Citing St Mary's in the context of Short Fields (as you did), is not really testing the original suggestion.
TB20s require more runway than most equivalent 4 place singles, and I write that as a fan.
2D
There are four seat SELS with significantly better take-off performance than a TB20 without 500HP engines.
Citing St Mary's in the context of Short Fields (as you did), is not really testing the original suggestion.
TB20s require more runway than most equivalent 4 place singles, and I write that as a fan.
2D
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
It was englishal who mentioned Scilly Isles.
However I stand by my assertion that acceleration isn't going to differ much for a given HP, so where does the short field perf come from? Has to be a wing which develops the required lift at a lower airspeed, and one pays a price for that somewhere else.
However I stand by my assertion that acceleration isn't going to differ much for a given HP, so where does the short field perf come from? Has to be a wing which develops the required lift at a lower airspeed, and one pays a price for that somewhere else.
and it doesn't cruise as fast as a TB20 either.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Athens, Greece
Speedbird744 I own one with a friend for few months now.
It was the best buy we could find for our budget.
Some rough observations:
On light loads you'll get airborne in 500m
On MTOW it will be arround 700~800m takeoff roll (50m obst. clearance) ; it lifts at ~600m.
You get MTOW with 4 POB with light luggage at about 3~4 hours fuel (or 2/3 of its capacity)
Only major difference I have found from previous singles I have flown is the heavier aileron and rudder (on ground). Aileron heavyness is due to it's small area in relation to the aircraft's roll moment o.i. and rudder is because of the retracable nose gear I guess.
It is a very strong aircraft for its category with very good performance due to the superb 250hp Lycoming IO540.
You'll get up to FL100~110 in 17~18 minutes and cruise there at 155 Kts (TAS) burning 12~13 gals/hr.
The landing speeds are slightly higher than the average light single (73~76 Kts) and it "settles" on the runway in heavier style than others (flare does not last long).
It has crosswind component limit of 25kts.
After carefull examination of its past (8 years) we found that there were never any serious problems in regards to mechanical issues.
Indeed at http://www.socata.org you will find a very active group of users with tech. document files, manuals, forum etc.
I was going to mention the sleak European looks but ... here's a photo album of our bird ...
http://hellasga.com/gallery/album01
It was the best buy we could find for our budget.
Some rough observations:
On light loads you'll get airborne in 500m
On MTOW it will be arround 700~800m takeoff roll (50m obst. clearance) ; it lifts at ~600m.
You get MTOW with 4 POB with light luggage at about 3~4 hours fuel (or 2/3 of its capacity)
Only major difference I have found from previous singles I have flown is the heavier aileron and rudder (on ground). Aileron heavyness is due to it's small area in relation to the aircraft's roll moment o.i. and rudder is because of the retracable nose gear I guess.
It is a very strong aircraft for its category with very good performance due to the superb 250hp Lycoming IO540.
You'll get up to FL100~110 in 17~18 minutes and cruise there at 155 Kts (TAS) burning 12~13 gals/hr.
The landing speeds are slightly higher than the average light single (73~76 Kts) and it "settles" on the runway in heavier style than others (flare does not last long).
It has crosswind component limit of 25kts.
After carefull examination of its past (8 years) we found that there were never any serious problems in regards to mechanical issues.
Indeed at http://www.socata.org you will find a very active group of users with tech. document files, manuals, forum etc.
I was going to mention the sleak European looks but ... here's a photo album of our bird ...
http://hellasga.com/gallery/album01
Better red than ...
Joined: Aug 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 0
From: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
I did Gamston to Girona (in Spain, N of Barcelona) via Rodez in a 20.
Nice machine and very fast/ well equipped.
As a tall geeza, no problem with headroom for me.
er, would you mind avoiding the Lundy helicport as this is even shorter than the short/ stoney/ bumpy field on said island.
Nice machine and very fast/ well equipped.
As a tall geeza, no problem with headroom for me.
One may as well talk about taking a TB20 into a heliport
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: cheltenham
There isn't a 4-seater which will take 4 present-day-sized adults and full fuel, anyway But a TB20 gets closer than anything in that class. Among current model machines, the SR22 is the only comparison and I would choose a TB20 even then.
My Bonanza does quite happily
