Use (abuse!) of strobes
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flick Roll :
Thanks, thats a new one for me...
What country do you fly in?
There is no way anyone can keep up with all the acrynoms or different discriptions of things in aviation. The one that always sounds strange to me is the British use of being on finals, at first I thought that it was a double vision thing.
Chuck E.
Thanks, thats a new one for me...
What country do you fly in?
There is no way anyone can keep up with all the acrynoms or different discriptions of things in aviation. The one that always sounds strange to me is the British use of being on finals, at first I thought that it was a double vision thing.
Chuck E.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My instructor always told me to put the strobes on when entering or crossing the active, and off when leaving.
He also told me to put the transponder to ALT after we had taken off, due to the possibilty of me lining up and a aircraft on finals having to go round due to a TCAS warning?? He also recommends that I switch the transponder off when I'm carrying out my pre-landing checks.
He also told me to put the transponder to ALT after we had taken off, due to the possibilty of me lining up and a aircraft on finals having to go round due to a TCAS warning?? He also recommends that I switch the transponder off when I'm carrying out my pre-landing checks.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: TL487591
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He also told me to put the transponder to ALT after we had taken off, due to the possibilty of me lining up and a aircraft on finals having to go round due to a TCAS warning?
2D
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He also told me to put the transponder to ALT after we had taken off, due to the possibilty of me lining up and a aircraft on finals having to go round due to a TCAS warning??
Reasoning being is this - if you've been told to line up then the aircraft on approach will not have been cleared to land.
So - on that basis - why would he go around?
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 425 Likes
on
224 Posts
If a TCAS alert WAS generated in an aircraft on finals, it is probably safer to continue the approach in any case.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Euroland
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Pistons,
You said;
I teach my students that the cockpit light knob is always paired with the nav light switch. That is if you need to turn on the panel lights to see the instruments it is always time to turn on the nav lights
Perhaps you should considder the actual legal requirement for the display of Nav lights. One can easily have bright sunshine lighting up your pannel and getting in your eyes at FL70 at a time when the aircraft is flying during the period of Night which is always determined at the surface.
That is one of the reasons why larger aircraft have the nav lights on at all times - much easier than working out the intercept of night time from the tables in the middle of nowhere!
With regard to the aircraft nearly taxying into a parked aircraft..............is the reason for the problem the lack of strobes or is the reason behind the problem the fact that;
a) the aircraft moving was not using a taxi light.
How would the moving aircraft have put a wing in the other aircraft's propeller because surely they would not have turned until they reached the point where the stationary aircraft was....unless they were aware somehow of the presence of another aircraft between them and the hold!!
Perhaps that pilot should try to taxi behind some big aircraft when the tail nav lights are placed on the wing tip trailing edges.........a system that leaves a large dark area between just where the tail is sitting!
Anyhow, why turn the aircraft into wind to complete a run-up especially if that requires a turn through 180 degrees on a taxiway...........everyone taxying towards you will have their taxi lights on and will destroy your night vision!!!!
Regards,
DFC
You said;
I teach my students that the cockpit light knob is always paired with the nav light switch. That is if you need to turn on the panel lights to see the instruments it is always time to turn on the nav lights
Perhaps you should considder the actual legal requirement for the display of Nav lights. One can easily have bright sunshine lighting up your pannel and getting in your eyes at FL70 at a time when the aircraft is flying during the period of Night which is always determined at the surface.
That is one of the reasons why larger aircraft have the nav lights on at all times - much easier than working out the intercept of night time from the tables in the middle of nowhere!
With regard to the aircraft nearly taxying into a parked aircraft..............is the reason for the problem the lack of strobes or is the reason behind the problem the fact that;
a) the aircraft moving was not using a taxi light.
How would the moving aircraft have put a wing in the other aircraft's propeller because surely they would not have turned until they reached the point where the stationary aircraft was....unless they were aware somehow of the presence of another aircraft between them and the hold!!
Perhaps that pilot should try to taxi behind some big aircraft when the tail nav lights are placed on the wing tip trailing edges.........a system that leaves a large dark area between just where the tail is sitting!
Anyhow, why turn the aircraft into wind to complete a run-up especially if that requires a turn through 180 degrees on a taxiway...........everyone taxying towards you will have their taxi lights on and will destroy your night vision!!!!
Regards,
DFC
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote :
" That is one of the reasons why larger aircraft have the nav lights on at all times - much easier than working out the intercept of night time from the tables in the middle of nowhere!"
............................................................ ........
Another way of looking at that is the designers figure that pilots do not have the brain power to figure out something a basic as the need for nav lights.
What happened to using a thought process that includes logic and common sense?
Chuck E.
" That is one of the reasons why larger aircraft have the nav lights on at all times - much easier than working out the intercept of night time from the tables in the middle of nowhere!"
............................................................ ........
Another way of looking at that is the designers figure that pilots do not have the brain power to figure out something a basic as the need for nav lights.
What happened to using a thought process that includes logic and common sense?
Chuck E.
>That is one of the reasons why larger aircraft have the nav lights on at all times - much easier than working out the intercept of night time from the tables in the middle of nowhere!<
Flown "larger aircraft" for circa 25 years and never had an SOP which required nav lites to be on at all times. Crews I flew with were always diligent about turning nav lites ON when required and vice versa.
Flown "larger aircraft" for circa 25 years and never had an SOP which required nav lites to be on at all times. Crews I flew with were always diligent about turning nav lites ON when required and vice versa.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fireflybob:
I also have been flying a lot of stuff for many years and have never seen any requirement to have nav lights on in daylight hours.
Where does all this stuff come from?
Chuck E.
I also have been flying a lot of stuff for many years and have never seen any requirement to have nav lights on in daylight hours.
Where does all this stuff come from?
Chuck E.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Somerset England
Age: 62
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck as I have tried to explain before, in the UK it is a legal requirement to have some form of light switched on during daylight hours when the engine(s) are running, if the aircraft is not fitted with a red rotating beacon and you don't want to put the HISL on, please tell me what would you do?? its not about the fact that the navs can't be seen in the day, I agree with you they are as good as useless, its all to do with staying legal!!
Happy new year to you all,
FF
Happy new year to you all,
FF
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Euroland
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck and Firefly,
So when flying a larger aircraft round Europe, at what time do you turn on the nav lights at FL350?
When it gets dark? - too late
When the sun sets - too late?
30 minutes after the sun has set as observed from the ground below the aircraft...........hard to work out when the aircraft is flying frequent changes of track and with a groundspeed of 500Kt+
Also in some countries, night starts at sunset+30 for part of the year and starts at sunset for the remainder............so pick a few random European countries and ask your self exactly when do you legally need to turn on the nav lights at FL350.
---
Flying Farmer,
There are lots of aircraft in the UK that have no lights. Are they operating illegally as soon as they start their engines?
The requirements for aircraft to be fitted with beacons is an airworthiness requirementand ICAO DOC 9051 (Airworthiness Technical Manual) has lots of guidance including when lights are required to be Off.
Regards,
DFC
So when flying a larger aircraft round Europe, at what time do you turn on the nav lights at FL350?
When it gets dark? - too late
When the sun sets - too late?
30 minutes after the sun has set as observed from the ground below the aircraft...........hard to work out when the aircraft is flying frequent changes of track and with a groundspeed of 500Kt+
Also in some countries, night starts at sunset+30 for part of the year and starts at sunset for the remainder............so pick a few random European countries and ask your self exactly when do you legally need to turn on the nav lights at FL350.
---
Flying Farmer,
There are lots of aircraft in the UK that have no lights. Are they operating illegally as soon as they start their engines?
The requirements for aircraft to be fitted with beacons is an airworthiness requirementand ICAO DOC 9051 (Airworthiness Technical Manual) has lots of guidance including when lights are required to be Off.
Regards,
DFC
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Somerset England
Age: 62
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taken from ICAO Rules of the Air
"3.2.3.4 Except as provided by 3.2.3.5, all aircraft:
a) operating on the movement area of an aerodrome and
fitted with anti-collision lights to meet the requirement
of 3.2.3.2 c); or
b) on the movement area of an aerodrome and fitted with
lights to meet the requirement of 3.2.3.2 d);
shall display such lights also outside the period specified in
3.2.3.2."
and a link to the page http://www.thegreatness.com/0302/Annex2.pdf
as a pilot and not a legal bod can some one explain "shall display such lights also outside the period specified in
3.2.3.2."
the period specified is sunset to sunrise.
"3.2.3.4 Except as provided by 3.2.3.5, all aircraft:
a) operating on the movement area of an aerodrome and
fitted with anti-collision lights to meet the requirement
of 3.2.3.2 c); or
b) on the movement area of an aerodrome and fitted with
lights to meet the requirement of 3.2.3.2 d);
shall display such lights also outside the period specified in
3.2.3.2."
and a link to the page http://www.thegreatness.com/0302/Annex2.pdf
as a pilot and not a legal bod can some one explain "shall display such lights also outside the period specified in
3.2.3.2."
the period specified is sunset to sunrise.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In addition to what 2D's says, your instructor shows a complete lack of understanding from what he says (if that's what he says).
I was thinking, if the a/c on finals is not cleared to land and gets a TCAS warning, would the pilot not have to obey it regardless of clearences?
Flying Farmer - thanks for the reference.
Those are the ICAO Rules of the Air and different States will have variations. Have just taken a trip to my friendly local airfield to read the UK Rules of the Air and I see no requirement to have nav lites switched on during day ops:-
Display of lights by aircraft
9.—(1)
(a) By night an aircraft shall display such of the lights specified in these Rules as may be appropriate to the circumstances of the case, and shall not display any other lights which might obscure or otherwise impair the visibility of, or be mistaken for, such lights.
(b) By day an aircraft fitted with an anti-collision light shall display such a light in flight.
(2) A flying machine on a United Kingdom aerodrome shall:
(a) display by night either the lights which it would be required to display when flying or the lights specified in rule 11(2)(c) unless it is stationary on the apron or part of the aerodrome provided for the maintenance of aircraft;
(b) display when stationary on the apron by day or night with engines running a red anticollision light, if fitted:
Hope this helps!
Those are the ICAO Rules of the Air and different States will have variations. Have just taken a trip to my friendly local airfield to read the UK Rules of the Air and I see no requirement to have nav lites switched on during day ops:-
Display of lights by aircraft
9.—(1)
(a) By night an aircraft shall display such of the lights specified in these Rules as may be appropriate to the circumstances of the case, and shall not display any other lights which might obscure or otherwise impair the visibility of, or be mistaken for, such lights.
(b) By day an aircraft fitted with an anti-collision light shall display such a light in flight.
(2) A flying machine on a United Kingdom aerodrome shall:
(a) display by night either the lights which it would be required to display when flying or the lights specified in rule 11(2)(c) unless it is stationary on the apron or part of the aerodrome provided for the maintenance of aircraft;
(b) display when stationary on the apron by day or night with engines running a red anticollision light, if fitted:
Hope this helps!