Use (abuse!) of strobes
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Somerset England
Age: 62
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nav lights on before start, day or night, that covers the legal requirements, strobes on entering the active. Can't make it much easier but as FFF says students seem to have a problem grasping this technique and don't start me on transponder use 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Farmer,
I've heard 'Lights, camera, action' used as an aide-memoire when applying power to taxi across the hold short line (camera = transponder).
So what do people do with their landing lights when on final approach at night and they see another plane holding short of the runway? Do you turn them off so not to affect the other pilot's night vision, or keep them on for landing?
I've heard 'Lights, camera, action' used as an aide-memoire when applying power to taxi across the hold short line (camera = transponder).
So what do people do with their landing lights when on final approach at night and they see another plane holding short of the runway? Do you turn them off so not to affect the other pilot's night vision, or keep them on for landing?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
benhurr
Forgive me for being picky here, but - says who?
It's good aviation practice, but it's not law in aircraft below a certain weight. Why? Because the legislators actually realise Mr Piper made a mistake with the Warrior
(There are other reasons, but they're not relevant)
Probably nothing, because Anti-Collision lights are requirement for flight - not ground operations.
And if you don't believe me - the ANO is always worth a read
If the engine is going to be started then the anti-collision lights have to be on.
It's good aviation practice, but it's not law in aircraft below a certain weight. Why? Because the legislators actually realise Mr Piper made a mistake with the Warrior
(There are other reasons, but they're not relevant)
I have been asked to turn my strobes off (at night) which leaves me with no anti-colls on. IF I had a collision what do you reckon my insurer would say?
And if you don't believe me - the ANO is always worth a read
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: South East
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just as a note. On larger ac it is always strobes on when lining up and off when taxying off. There are H and S rules on strobes. Flying farmers point of Nav light as opposed to strobes is a good one for night ops.
Strobes on as an anti col, I personally do not like. Also if you are up close and looking in there direction then there is a likelihood of temporary loss of vision.
Regards to all
Wide
Strobes on as an anti col, I personally do not like. Also if you are up close and looking in there direction then there is a likelihood of temporary loss of vision.
Regards to all
Wide
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Swindon, Wilts,UK
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One point springs to mind. Any High intensity light, especially strobes, have a limited life span. I play with high speed video equipment and some of the bigger Strobe units even have counters fitted to tell you how many flashes you have left.
Maybe that time accumulated on the ground looking cool just might tip the balance against you when you really need them.
Maybe that time accumulated on the ground looking cool just might tip the balance against you when you really need them.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Probably nothing, because Anti-Collision lights are requirement for flight - not ground operations.
And if you don't believe me - the ANO is always worth a read
And if you don't believe me - the ANO is always worth a read
Guest
Posts: n/a
luckykathryn,
Thanks for the tip. I was taught RAPT for Recognition, Anti-col, Pitot, Transponder. But I like ATPL, very apt
Chilli,
I still beg to differ, but that's me I guess
The ANO doesn't seem to reference a/c weight in realtion to day operations and lights. Also, clause 4 is simply a safety caveat. The days or conditions in which clause 4 can reasonably used are limited. It is quite clear that at all other times, you must have your beacon on. It does also specify flashing white lights as anti-collision lights too.
In my opinion, even the anti-cols on PA28s are not dazzling during the day...just irrirating. Granted, at night the oder says that they may be switched of as long as you have your nav lights on.
If nothing else, anti-col is a clear sign that there is somebody in the a/c and it is quite likely that the engine is going to start soon. I would class their use as good airmanship.
Thanks for the tip. I was taught RAPT for Recognition, Anti-col, Pitot, Transponder. But I like ATPL, very apt
Chilli,
I still beg to differ, but that's me I guess
The ANO doesn't seem to reference a/c weight in realtion to day operations and lights. Also, clause 4 is simply a safety caveat. The days or conditions in which clause 4 can reasonably used are limited. It is quite clear that at all other times, you must have your beacon on. It does also specify flashing white lights as anti-collision lights too.In my opinion, even the anti-cols on PA28s are not dazzling during the day...just irrirating. Granted, at night the oder says that they may be switched of as long as you have your nav lights on.
If nothing else, anti-col is a clear sign that there is somebody in the a/c and it is quite likely that the engine is going to start soon. I would class their use as good airmanship.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Somerset England
Age: 62
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
slim slag
if its another company aircraft I will probably flash the landing lights at him
why would I want to switch my landing lights off on final approach? I might need to land the other aircraft has the option of not taking off.
if its another company aircraft I will probably flash the landing lights at him
why would I want to switch my landing lights off on final approach? I might need to land the other aircraft has the option of not taking off.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No retraction required - Rule 9 para 4 is the caveat which gets me off the hook
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Somerset England
Age: 62
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the ANO
"By day an aircraft fitted with an anti-collision light shall display such a light in flight"
"display when stationary on the apron by day or night
with engines running a red anti-collision light, if fitted"
No mention as far as I can see of High Intensity Strobe Lights which are not the same as anti-collision lights. Note the words if fitted, hence the use of Nav lights to indicate either engines running or a signal to ground crew that start is imminent.
"By day an aircraft fitted with an anti-collision light shall display such a light in flight"
"display when stationary on the apron by day or night
with engines running a red anti-collision light, if fitted"
No mention as far as I can see of High Intensity Strobe Lights which are not the same as anti-collision lights. Note the words if fitted, hence the use of Nav lights to indicate either engines running or a signal to ground crew that start is imminent.
Firstly totally agree that white strobes are only for airborne use.
The other thing that irritates me is those pilots who want to check the strobes on the walkround - is this really necessary? Quite annoying when you are in another aircraft close by doing checks etc.
The other thing that irritates me is those pilots who want to check the strobes on the walkround - is this really necessary? Quite annoying when you are in another aircraft close by doing checks etc.
High Wing Drifter - is checking of the white strobe lights in the Check A ?
Also, if the Check A has previously been signed for that day then, notwithstanding that it is good airmanship to do some sort of preflight walkround (a " transit" check) then why repeat what has already been done?
Also, if the Check A has previously been signed for that day then, notwithstanding that it is good airmanship to do some sort of preflight walkround (a " transit" check) then why repeat what has already been done?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone should go back to page one and read what Kolibear wrote.
Anyone who thinks that Nav lights are visiable during daylight hours scares the living hell out of me.
Common sense also dictates that the only way anyone would get injured or killed during engine start up is if they were standing directly in the prop arc.
Common sense dictates that if you confirm no one is standing close to the prop /'s it is safe to start...if someone walks into the prop after engine start then it is only selective selection at work and the gene pool is being corrected.
Chuck E.
Anyone who thinks that Nav lights are visiable during daylight hours scares the living hell out of me.
Common sense also dictates that the only way anyone would get injured or killed during engine start up is if they were standing directly in the prop arc.
Common sense dictates that if you confirm no one is standing close to the prop /'s it is safe to start...if someone walks into the prop after engine start then it is only selective selection at work and the gene pool is being corrected.
Chuck E.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Chuck,
You mean strobes. The strobes can be highly visible during the day, then again they might not be depending on the background of the a/c from the viewer. My general thinking is why create so many decisions? I therefore switch the things on when lining up and switch them off after landing.
fireflybob,
Firstly. Umm, yes. When do you suggest 
Secondly, as I explained. I've lost count of the occasions I have arrived at the aircraft and found that the after landing or after shutdown checklist has not been followed through properly. Not a major problem (except maybe for the avionics) but does lead to wonder what else was not done properly. Do I need to brace myself for more critisism now?
You mean strobes. The strobes can be highly visible during the day, then again they might not be depending on the background of the a/c from the viewer. My general thinking is why create so many decisions? I therefore switch the things on when lining up and switch them off after landing.
fireflybob,
High Wing Drifter - is checking of the white strobe lights in the Check A ?
Also, if the Check A has previously been signed for that day then, notwithstanding that it is good airmanship to do some sort of preflight walkround (a " transit" check) then why repeat what has already been done?
Also, if the Check A has previously been signed for that day then, notwithstanding that it is good airmanship to do some sort of preflight walkround (a " transit" check) then why repeat what has already been done?
Secondly, as I explained. I've lost count of the occasions I have arrived at the aircraft and found that the after landing or after shutdown checklist has not been followed through properly. Not a major problem (except maybe for the avionics) but does lead to wonder what else was not done properly. Do I need to brace myself for more critisism now?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ready to Depart
Age: 45
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FF Said:
The ICAO Rules of the Air state that at night, aircraft on an apron should have their nav lights on at all times. Therefore people in the surrounding area wouldn't associate the lights being on as a warning of imminent engine start!
Of course, ICAO do make the reasonable assumption that most aircraft have red beacons fitted.
Things are of course a little different at Chipping-cum-Sudbury Aerodrome and Joe Farmers' Strip, and I do like the idea of - say - flashing the nav lights a couple of times before starting.
Using HI WHITE strobes on the ground is cool. Just like having front fog lights on your car. Everyone NOT driving thinks it looks good. Everyone else who's driving thinks you're an inconsiderate boy-racing tosser. IMHO, of course!
For what its worth, from ICAO Annex 8 (Airworthiness of Aircraft):
... hence the use of Nav lights to indicate either engines running or a signal to ground crew that start is imminent.
Of course, ICAO do make the reasonable assumption that most aircraft have red beacons fitted.
Things are of course a little different at Chipping-cum-Sudbury Aerodrome and Joe Farmers' Strip, and I do like the idea of - say - flashing the nav lights a couple of times before starting.
Using HI WHITE strobes on the ground is cool. Just like having front fog lights on your car. Everyone NOT driving thinks it looks good. Everyone else who's driving thinks you're an inconsiderate boy-racing tosser. IMHO, of course!
For what its worth, from ICAO Annex 8 (Airworthiness of Aircraft):
Navigation Lights and Anti-collision Lights
The lights required must have the:
* Intensities
* Colours
* Fields of coverage and
* Other characteristics
such that they are easy to interpret by other pilots and ground personnel.
In the design of such lights due account shall be taken of the conditions under which they may reasonably be expected to perform these functions.
Lights are installed in aeroplanes so as to minimize the possibility that they will:
* adversely affect the satisfactory performance of the
* flight crews’ duties; or
* subject an outside observer to harmful dazzle.
In some cases it may be necessary to provide the pilot with the means to switch off or reduce the intensity of the flashing
The lights required must have the:
* Intensities
* Colours
* Fields of coverage and
* Other characteristics
such that they are easy to interpret by other pilots and ground personnel.
In the design of such lights due account shall be taken of the conditions under which they may reasonably be expected to perform these functions.
Lights are installed in aeroplanes so as to minimize the possibility that they will:
* adversely affect the satisfactory performance of the
* flight crews’ duties; or
* subject an outside observer to harmful dazzle.
In some cases it may be necessary to provide the pilot with the means to switch off or reduce the intensity of the flashing
Last edited by Dusty_B; 22nd Dec 2004 at 08:44.