Blank logbook column
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: UK
Blank logbook column
I’m a few weeks from starting my PPL and I’ve just bought myself a nice new logbook with the following columns in the main pages:
As you can see, it has columns for:
Date, Aircraft, P1, P2, From/To, Remarks and columns for hour’s breakdown. It also has a blank column.
As I don’t have any practical experience I wanted to get opinions on what the blank column should be used for (bearing in mind that I intend to fly commercially)?
I’ve looked at section 28 of the ANO and the logbook seems to cover everything.
Any suggestions?
As you can see, it has columns for:
Date, Aircraft, P1, P2, From/To, Remarks and columns for hour’s breakdown. It also has a blank column.
As I don’t have any practical experience I wanted to get opinions on what the blank column should be used for (bearing in mind that I intend to fly commercially)?
I’ve looked at section 28 of the ANO and the logbook seems to cover everything.
Any suggestions?
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Entirely up to you - the law doesn't define anything but the absolute minimum information that must be in your logbook.
You might, for example do some glider, helicopter or microlight flying - in which case the spare couple of columns would be ideal for the purpose.
On the other hand, although it doesn't legally comprise part of your total flying hours the odds are you'll manage to scrounge some interesting and educational passenger flights as you go along. Many people use a spare logbook column for these flights as well.
For that matter, there's nothing to stop you recycling other columns (such as multi-engine) which you are unlikely to use for a few years.
G
You might, for example do some glider, helicopter or microlight flying - in which case the spare couple of columns would be ideal for the purpose.
On the other hand, although it doesn't legally comprise part of your total flying hours the odds are you'll manage to scrounge some interesting and educational passenger flights as you go along. Many people use a spare logbook column for these flights as well.
For that matter, there's nothing to stop you recycling other columns (such as multi-engine) which you are unlikely to use for a few years.
G
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,064
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From: Hants, UK
Some people use them to record their instructional hours to make them easier to add up if they do monthly or annual summaries. Or their cross-country hours as opposed 'local' hours (you will find you need to identify those separately on the form if you apply for a professional licence). Or maybe (one day) turbine hours.
As Genghis says, anything you like really.
As Genghis says, anything you like really.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 510
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From: England
The PPL course (JAR-FCL 45 hours minimum) must include:
10 hours supervised solo time - No problem, you already have a column for this.
25 hours dual flight instruction - similarly you already have a column for this.
2 hours stall awareness and spin avoidance training - so mark one of the spare columns " SSAT " and enter the time that you spend on this which will be less than the total time of that particular lesson.
5 hours solo cross-country time - so mark one of the spare columns "Solo XC".
This will make checking you have all the correct minimums easier both for you during the course, and for the CAA when you send off for your licence.
But, as has been pointed out, how you fill in your logbook is entirely up to you, subject just to the minimum information required by the regs.
Good luck with the course !
10 hours supervised solo time - No problem, you already have a column for this.
25 hours dual flight instruction - similarly you already have a column for this.
2 hours stall awareness and spin avoidance training - so mark one of the spare columns " SSAT " and enter the time that you spend on this which will be less than the total time of that particular lesson.
5 hours solo cross-country time - so mark one of the spare columns "Solo XC".
This will make checking you have all the correct minimums easier both for you during the course, and for the CAA when you send off for your licence.
But, as has been pointed out, how you fill in your logbook is entirely up to you, subject just to the minimum information required by the regs.
Good luck with the course !
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Canada
I second Gertrude's opinion: floatplane time would be highly appropriate (better keep a very specific record of such experience for insurance purposes). Time on tailwheel airplanes might be another idea.
Gengis' suggestions are also good (although if you have, or later obtain, gliding experience, you will no doubt have a separate logbook for that).
I don't agree with the suggestion of devoting a column to stalls and spins; you only have three blank columns, so it seems a shame to waste one on something like that (when you practice the relevant exercises, just make appropriate notations in the "remarks" column). But the idea of a cross-country column makes sense (don't limit it to solo; whether the flights were solo or dual will be obvious from the "Pilot in Command" column).
Notwithstanding all of the above, I'd recommend leaving all three of the blank columns 'virgin' until after you've completed the PPL, when you'll have a better idea of what sort of flying you'll regularly be doing in the future.
One final comment: I've seen too many logbooks that are a complete mess. As your logbook is the only permanent record of your flying, keep it nice and tidy: always print neatly, and use only one colour pen (IMHO black usually looks nicer than blue, but that choice matters less than being consistent).
Gengis' suggestions are also good (although if you have, or later obtain, gliding experience, you will no doubt have a separate logbook for that).
I don't agree with the suggestion of devoting a column to stalls and spins; you only have three blank columns, so it seems a shame to waste one on something like that (when you practice the relevant exercises, just make appropriate notations in the "remarks" column). But the idea of a cross-country column makes sense (don't limit it to solo; whether the flights were solo or dual will be obvious from the "Pilot in Command" column).
Notwithstanding all of the above, I'd recommend leaving all three of the blank columns 'virgin' until after you've completed the PPL, when you'll have a better idea of what sort of flying you'll regularly be doing in the future.
One final comment: I've seen too many logbooks that are a complete mess. As your logbook is the only permanent record of your flying, keep it nice and tidy: always print neatly, and use only one colour pen (IMHO black usually looks nicer than blue, but that choice matters less than being consistent).
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Abingdon, Oxfordshire, U.K.
Go buy another logbook. Use one to make entries as you do the flying, i.e. land, refuel, put aircraft away, fill out logbook. Then you go home and transfer entries to your 'good' logbook. You are bound to make a mess the first time. You should probably have your good one with you at all times as it will presumably be the one with all your sign offs in but it can be kept in your bag/ car/pocket. Mine had tea spilled on it in its first week. Don't be afraid to write more than is required. If a flight turned out to be special, say so and why it was.
Mike W
Mike W
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
blimey, neat log books, one colour pen...... are we keeping a set of accounts or the colourfull story of our flying life here?
Mine has more colours of ink, coffee, beer and god knows what else. It has doodles and comments and the current book with a thousand hours in it looks a little sorry for itslelf. But I would not change a thing about it. It is a representation of the wide variety of flying I have done but quite clearly records the hours as required.
Flying is an expression of freedom despite the endless rules and regulations we experiance and the log book should reflect this.
If I had a spare column I would probably record the number of inflight farts I have done or the number of sandwiches I have dropped under the seat.
Mine has more colours of ink, coffee, beer and god knows what else. It has doodles and comments and the current book with a thousand hours in it looks a little sorry for itslelf. But I would not change a thing about it. It is a representation of the wide variety of flying I have done but quite clearly records the hours as required.
Flying is an expression of freedom despite the endless rules and regulations we experiance and the log book should reflect this.
If I had a spare column I would probably record the number of inflight farts I have done or the number of sandwiches I have dropped under the seat.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Canada
To each his own. If you or anyone else wants a logbook full of stains and illegible multi-coloured scribbles, it's no skin off my nose. Still, as an instructor I know that I often form an impression of a pilot's attitude (careful or careless) based upon his logbook; and flying with those pilots usually bears out such first impressions.
Although my own logbook is neat and tidy, it is not as soulless as you imply (I've used rubber stamps to include images of every airplane that I have soloed, next to the relevant 'first solo' entries).
Although my own logbook is neat and tidy, it is not as soulless as you imply (I've used rubber stamps to include images of every airplane that I have soloed, next to the relevant 'first solo' entries).
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Mine has more colours of ink, coffee, beer and god knows what else. It has doodles and comments and the current book with a thousand hours in it looks a little sorry for itslelf. But I would not change a thing about it. It is a representation of the wide variety of flying I have done but quite clearly records the hours as required.
My logbook is for ME! Sure, it includes the legal requirements, the stuff the CAA wants. But it also has notes on who I took with me, anything I thought was important, be it thunderstorms or a wonderful view, passenger flights in anything interesting, photos, Russian stamps, signatures, crossings out, tippex, coffee stains, cat paw marks, etc etc etc etc. And you know what? I wouldn't change ANY of it. It's my record of my flying, with what I think is important.So you keep your neat, tidy, sterile, boring log book if you want; I prefer mine.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
Although my own logbook is neat and tidy, it is not as soulless as you imply (I've used rubber stamps to include images of every airplane that I have soloed, next to the relevant 'first solo' entries).
; seriously the remarks column is there to be used - it is possible for a logbook to be reasonably neat and tidy (I seem to get tidier as I get older - at-least in my logbook) and contain a lot of "colour" about what you've done and where you've been.G
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
it is possible for a logbook to be reasonably neat and tidy (I seem to get tidier as I get older - at-least in my logbook) and contain a lot of "colour" about what you've done and where you've been.
I have one pet hate, and that's using ICAO codes for airfields instead of their full names. I like to know at a glance where I've been, and I won't even abbreviate the airfield name. Space became a bit of a problem the day I flew from Sherburn-in-Elmet to Hinton-in-the-Hedges.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
steady on MLS-12, that is a very broad, sweeping and innacurate statement.
Anyof those who fly with me on this list will attest to my flying and those others that have the same view on log books that I know.
A log book givs no representation of a pilots attitude or ability.
That is probably the most arrogant statement I have heard you make and you have made a few!
Anyof those who fly with me on this list will attest to my flying and those others that have the same view on log books that I know.
A log book givs no representation of a pilots attitude or ability.
That is probably the most arrogant statement I have heard you make and you have made a few!
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
I'm no apologist for MLS, but can see where he's coming from. Whilst it is a generalisation, I find it quite rare to see gash flying or engineering from somebody whose paperwork is neat and systematic. Similarly, I've learned through experience that if somebody's paperwork is gash, incomplete or inconsistent it's not unusual to find that some other aspect of their work is too.
But, it is still a generalisation - Whirly's logbook may well be very scruffy but I know her to be a very cautious and safe pilot; similarly I can think of one or two people who have produced beautifully neat and tidy paperwork, and some very dodgy aviation!
However, we should take every clue available to us, and I'd defend MLS's view that he should take a slightly deeper look at somebody who can't keep their logbook neat and tidy.
G
But, it is still a generalisation - Whirly's logbook may well be very scruffy but I know her to be a very cautious and safe pilot; similarly I can think of one or two people who have produced beautifully neat and tidy paperwork, and some very dodgy aviation!
However, we should take every clue available to us, and I'd defend MLS's view that he should take a slightly deeper look at somebody who can't keep their logbook neat and tidy.
G
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
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From: Bournemouth
I use one blank column for tail-wheel time, and one for float-plane time. The tail-wheel time is very useful if you ever buy a tail-dragger (or a share in one), because the insurance company will need to know it. Keeping track of float-plane time, for me at least, is far less useful because I doubt I'll ever own one, but it adds a bit of interest to the numbers just the same.
FFF
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FFF
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The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
MLS makes an interesting point. Does a person's attitude to one thing reflect their attitude to everything? The answer is probably yes, but it needs to be looked at more deeply than he is doing (or implying in this thread anyway).
To take my logbook as an example (only because I know about me), it isn't actually very scruffy. But it isn't completely neat and tidy either, mainly because I carry it with me, fill it out as I go, change things if necessary, and don't worry too much so long as it's reasonably legible. As I see it, I take pride in it being readable, but appropriate.
Now, does this reflect the way I do other things? Yes, actually. If you ask me to do anything, from writing an article to sending you something in the post to arriving at an airfield, I'll do it immediately and well. But I won't worry too much if it doesn't look perfect, if looks are not the primary consideration. And I am a careful pilot, but I don't insist on care for it's own sake, only when and where I feel it's required...which means, for instance, that I occasionally forget to fasten waist harnesses in an aircraft when it's on the ground and I'm about to go flying again in half an hour.
Now, let's take the friend I mentioned. This person keeps a very neat logbook at home, but it's always several months behind.
If asked to do something, this person will do it perfectly, but that quest for perfection means it may take ages and ages for it to be done, even if time is important and looks aren't.
I'm sure there are all sorts of variations on this theme, and they probably all tell you something about the person concerned. The trouble is, without knowing ALL the facts, and the reasons behind them, it's not always completely clear what the conclusions are.
To take my logbook as an example (only because I know about me), it isn't actually very scruffy. But it isn't completely neat and tidy either, mainly because I carry it with me, fill it out as I go, change things if necessary, and don't worry too much so long as it's reasonably legible. As I see it, I take pride in it being readable, but appropriate.
Now, does this reflect the way I do other things? Yes, actually. If you ask me to do anything, from writing an article to sending you something in the post to arriving at an airfield, I'll do it immediately and well. But I won't worry too much if it doesn't look perfect, if looks are not the primary consideration. And I am a careful pilot, but I don't insist on care for it's own sake, only when and where I feel it's required...which means, for instance, that I occasionally forget to fasten waist harnesses in an aircraft when it's on the ground and I'm about to go flying again in half an hour.
Now, let's take the friend I mentioned. This person keeps a very neat logbook at home, but it's always several months behind.
If asked to do something, this person will do it perfectly, but that quest for perfection means it may take ages and ages for it to be done, even if time is important and looks aren't.I'm sure there are all sorts of variations on this theme, and they probably all tell you something about the person concerned. The trouble is, without knowing ALL the facts, and the reasons behind them, it's not always completely clear what the conclusions are.
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Euroland
That Logbook does not meet the requirements for the recording of flight time in the UK or in Europe.
LASORS and JAR-FCL show what must be recorded.
What is missing is time of departure and time of arrival.
You can either return the book unused and obtain a correct format one or you can modify this one so that the required details are recorded for each flight.
Regards,
DFC
LASORS and JAR-FCL show what must be recorded.
What is missing is time of departure and time of arrival.
You can either return the book unused and obtain a correct format one or you can modify this one so that the required details are recorded for each flight.
Regards,
DFC