Auster on a permit (Merged)
Just sent this to one of the Auster Club committe members (who appears sympathetic to the PFA Permit route):
I just thought I'd pass you a comment I received from a friend who has a Condor:
The rest of the Condor breed including mine moved to the PFA recently, and I found the CAA (Kevin Russel) informative and helpful during the process, and gave me the impression that the CAA were more than happy for the PFA to take over the orphans subject to no objections from any owners.
Please note that the italics are mine.
Time to start another thread methinks
Bearing in mind the above, I would like to repeat the idea of polling the members of the Auster Club as it seems that a few are holding out against the wishes of the majority to go on a PFA Permit. I realise that there are a few people who train with Austers or use them for aerial work but I'm sure that the vast majority would prefer to be on a PFA Permit however, this could only be proven with a ballot.
Best regards, etc etc
I just thought I'd pass you a comment I received from a friend who has a Condor:
The rest of the Condor breed including mine moved to the PFA recently, and I found the CAA (Kevin Russel) informative and helpful during the process, and gave me the impression that the CAA were more than happy for the PFA to take over the orphans subject to no objections from any owners.
Please note that the italics are mine.
Time to start another thread methinks
Bearing in mind the above, I would like to repeat the idea of polling the members of the Auster Club as it seems that a few are holding out against the wishes of the majority to go on a PFA Permit. I realise that there are a few people who train with Austers or use them for aerial work but I'm sure that the vast majority would prefer to be on a PFA Permit however, this could only be proven with a ballot.
Best regards, etc etc
CAA willing to let Austers onto a PFA Permit???
I was going to start a new thread but remembered this one and decided to resurrect it.
It seems that certain members of the Auster Club are the ones who are holding up any possibility of Austers changing to a PFA Permit as they want to keep using their Austers / Beagles for training and other aerial work. The proponents of this are muddying the waters by raising the spectre of a CAA Permit (which nobody in their right mind wants unless it is the ONLY way of getting airborne). See here http://www.austerclub.org/club_stuff/easa.htm (You will have to cut and paste the address into your browser cos I made a lash of the link).
However, a fellow Ppruner has recently had his Condor (another CAA Orphan Type) put on a PFA Permit. He made the following comment which appears to make a lie of the statements coming from the Auster Club:
The rest of the Condor breed including mine moved to the PFA recently, and I found the CAA (Kevin Russel) informative and helpful during the process, and gave me the impression that the CAA were more than happy for the PFA to take over the orphans subject to no objections from any owners.
If there are any other Auster owners here on Pprune (I know you're out there) please register your displeasure (or otherwise) with the Auster Club's handling of this matter her and I will see that they are passed on, or even better do it here AND email them yourself!
I know there is at least one Antipodean Auster owner on these forums. Maybe he could shed some light on how a transfer from a CAA C of A to a PFA Permit would affect his aircraft's status on his domestic register?
It seems that certain members of the Auster Club are the ones who are holding up any possibility of Austers changing to a PFA Permit as they want to keep using their Austers / Beagles for training and other aerial work. The proponents of this are muddying the waters by raising the spectre of a CAA Permit (which nobody in their right mind wants unless it is the ONLY way of getting airborne). See here http://www.austerclub.org/club_stuff/easa.htm (You will have to cut and paste the address into your browser cos I made a lash of the link).
However, a fellow Ppruner has recently had his Condor (another CAA Orphan Type) put on a PFA Permit. He made the following comment which appears to make a lie of the statements coming from the Auster Club:
The rest of the Condor breed including mine moved to the PFA recently, and I found the CAA (Kevin Russel) informative and helpful during the process, and gave me the impression that the CAA were more than happy for the PFA to take over the orphans subject to no objections from any owners.
If there are any other Auster owners here on Pprune (I know you're out there) please register your displeasure (or otherwise) with the Auster Club's handling of this matter her and I will see that they are passed on, or even better do it here AND email them yourself!
I know there is at least one Antipodean Auster owner on these forums. Maybe he could shed some light on how a transfer from a CAA C of A to a PFA Permit would affect his aircraft's status on his domestic register?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Meon Valley
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tread carefully Peter
I know at least one person who opposes the Pfa route, plus another who supports him as he would not be effected anyway (aop will remain caa permit to fly). (both long standing figures in club top end)
The club is supposed to be about keeping a lovely little British (helped by Taylor) airplane where all planes belong. In the air with a basis of support and spares to keep them there while oil is still flowing.
Little things like this could upset the apple cart. Even if is all fairness and with the will of the majority. Austers belong on a Pfa permit.
I know at least one person who opposes the Pfa route, plus another who supports him as he would not be effected anyway (aop will remain caa permit to fly). (both long standing figures in club top end)
The club is supposed to be about keeping a lovely little British (helped by Taylor) airplane where all planes belong. In the air with a basis of support and spares to keep them there while oil is still flowing.
Little things like this could upset the apple cart. Even if is all fairness and with the will of the majority. Austers belong on a Pfa permit.
MVF I appreciate the concern but ultimately if Les Grande Fromage in the Auster Club have their way then the status quo will be maintained until EASA screw us all. The only alternative is to stir things up and see if we can't get a bit of support from the rank & file Auster Club members and if the CAA see that there are a much larger proportion of Auster owners wanting a PFA Permit it might tip the balance.
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Wessex
Age: 55
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LnS
Please pass on my displeasure at the Auster club, I have let my membership lapse as our Auster is in a million bits being restored. If we are forced to stay on a C of A it will not be worth restoring it as the engine rebiuld will cost more than the value of the crate.
I take it a gipsy major prop is of no use to you as we won't be needing it for a while.
Oh Auster is G-AGXU a J1/N
Yes the one chewed by cows.
Please pass on my displeasure at the Auster club, I have let my membership lapse as our Auster is in a million bits being restored. If we are forced to stay on a C of A it will not be worth restoring it as the engine rebiuld will cost more than the value of the crate.
I take it a gipsy major prop is of no use to you as we won't be needing it for a while.
Oh Auster is G-AGXU a J1/N
Yes the one chewed by cows.
A.Pommie I'll pass your feelings on with pleasure.
I have heard of aircraft that have lost their logbooks and ended up being called an Auster Replica on the PFA Permit. Unfortunately I think this loophole has long since been closed.
Seeing as the J1/N already has the appropriate vertical tail and the stronger wing struts why don't you flog the Gipsy and prop and re-engine her with a time-ex Lycoming O-360 from an R22 as they are de-rated for use in the 22 and are relatively understressed. They also have the correct crankcase shape to fit the approved engine mountings. Potentially a lot cheaper than re-building a Gipsy (£15K I understand) and also easier to get bits for. Not as pretty I agree but I'd have a crack at it if I could.
Cows and horses love the taste of aeroplane dope unfortunately. How much damage did they do?
I have heard of aircraft that have lost their logbooks and ended up being called an Auster Replica on the PFA Permit. Unfortunately I think this loophole has long since been closed.
Seeing as the J1/N already has the appropriate vertical tail and the stronger wing struts why don't you flog the Gipsy and prop and re-engine her with a time-ex Lycoming O-360 from an R22 as they are de-rated for use in the 22 and are relatively understressed. They also have the correct crankcase shape to fit the approved engine mountings. Potentially a lot cheaper than re-building a Gipsy (£15K I understand) and also easier to get bits for. Not as pretty I agree but I'd have a crack at it if I could.
Cows and horses love the taste of aeroplane dope unfortunately. How much damage did they do?
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Wessex
Age: 55
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LnS
The 0-320 0-360 route is the one we are looking at. The cows ate pretty much all of the fuselage covering aft of the cockpit. The damage wasn't to bad, it was the state of the wood work under the fabric that was the real problem. That and the need to replace the 800 odd screws that hold the ribs together!, Cracked strut bracket and all the things you find when you look inside a 60 year old airframe.
The 0-320 0-360 route is the one we are looking at. The cows ate pretty much all of the fuselage covering aft of the cockpit. The damage wasn't to bad, it was the state of the wood work under the fabric that was the real problem. That and the need to replace the 800 odd screws that hold the ribs together!, Cracked strut bracket and all the things you find when you look inside a 60 year old airframe.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: australia
Age: 51
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Auster Certification
Let common sense prevail and get Austers on a PFA permit where they belong. I cant believe anybody would still want to have a full CofA, the PFA is a practical way to keep these ''jems'' flying.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Meon Valley
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if anyone wants an engine frame to fit a Lycoming 0320 (not 0360) to a J5 Auster. Then they might want to look at a popular aviation web site (for commercial reasons I can't post a link, but heres a clue 'this is where an Auster should be kept to keep it healthy)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: australia
Age: 51
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Auster certification
I wish somebody would bang the heads of certain Austerclub ''La grande fromage'' together and let nature take its course, with this i refer to PFA permits and there overdue issue on Auster variants.
ozzieausterdriver what would be the effect of all UK Austers going onto a PFA Permit? Would it force the Aussie CAA to do the same to yours or would you in turn become "orphans" and a special (read expensive) case under their rules? I mention this as it is one of the reasons that Les Grande Fromages use as an excuse, errr reason, to retain Austers on a C of A.
A Pommie sounds like bad news. I've had loads of inspection holes cut in the wings of Annie and no horrors have been revealed so I've been lucky. So far.......
A Pommie sounds like bad news. I've had loads of inspection holes cut in the wings of Annie and no horrors have been revealed so I've been lucky. So far.......
Join Date: May 2006
Location: australia
Age: 51
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have no idea, as i operate mine on the G reg at the moment. Having said that the ozzie rules are much better than our UK ones. They have a one time CofA and renew with an annual or 100 hour inspection, which i have to say is like a 50 hour LAMS inspection. Like most things here it is more relaxed.
You would probably have to put your Auster on the Aussie register if the UK Austers go on to a PFA Permit then. Would have to do that eventually or is there an agreement between Oz and the UK which allows G-reg aircraft to remain on the UK reg in Aus indefinitely?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 60
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PFA Permit
In my opinion the PFA Permit system is the logical way to keep these aircraft where they should be, in the air. The PFA permit system is more than adequate for the simple rugged Auster, indeed it is far simpler than a lot of other permit types.
It may also allow more of these little jems as Ozzieausterdriver calls them that have rested in old hangars and barns to be put back in the air.
T10
It may also allow more of these little jems as Ozzieausterdriver calls them that have rested in old hangars and barns to be put back in the air.
T10
T10 & ozzieausterdriver couldn't agree more.
The requirement for a poll is going to be put to the Auster Club Committee at the next AGM so, hopefully, that will stir things up a bit.
The requirement for a poll is going to be put to the Auster Club Committee at the next AGM so, hopefully, that will stir things up a bit.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: 100 Group Country
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those of you not aware, there is a dedicated forum on the Auster Club site with a section regarding certification issues and a poll to vote which you would prefer.
However having said that, a letter has been posted today from the CAA to say that they hope that a type responsibility agreement (TRA)will be signed for the Austers / Beagles in the next few days. So there will be no chance to get Austers on a permit.
You can read and add your comments here:http://www.austerclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7
However having said that, a letter has been posted today from the CAA to say that they hope that a type responsibility agreement (TRA)will be signed for the Austers / Beagles in the next few days. So there will be no chance to get Austers on a permit.
You can read and add your comments here:http://www.austerclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7
VVG thanks for the link. Looks like us Auster drivers are committed to a C of A then......
A great opportunity lost for
a) reducing the difficulty of obtaining spares and
b) increasing the value of the Auster breed by taking away the perceived stigma of them being "expensive" C of A aircraft.
PS I still need a prop !!!!
A great opportunity lost for
a) reducing the difficulty of obtaining spares and
b) increasing the value of the Auster breed by taking away the perceived stigma of them being "expensive" C of A aircraft.
PS I still need a prop !!!!