Cirrus 22 Problems
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Cirrus 22 Problems
On my occassional forays into the world of private (real) flying I have noticed the proliferation of Cirrus 22 about.
Now a chap I know, Florida based, is currently trying to offload his asap as are apparently a number of other owners.
My guy says that the 'dodgy' stall characteristics and lack of spin recovery are giving the US insurers the jitters and the whole thing is about to blow. He has also mentioned that the US insurers will not payout if the chute is pulled!!
I have already asked the only UK 22 owner I know but he wasnt aware of anything nasty in the pipeline.
I ask because a friend who is considering purchase of a single asked me for any observations I may have. Are there any owners out there wno could give me any info to pass on. Any other info also appreciated.
Now a chap I know, Florida based, is currently trying to offload his asap as are apparently a number of other owners.
My guy says that the 'dodgy' stall characteristics and lack of spin recovery are giving the US insurers the jitters and the whole thing is about to blow. He has also mentioned that the US insurers will not payout if the chute is pulled!!
I have already asked the only UK 22 owner I know but he wasnt aware of anything nasty in the pipeline.
I ask because a friend who is considering purchase of a single asked me for any observations I may have. Are there any owners out there wno could give me any info to pass on. Any other info also appreciated.
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So let's see what you are trying to say:
People trying to sell aircraft. Hmmm that's strange. On Trade-a-plane there are 10 people trying to sell 1998- SR22s. There are also 13 1998- Beech 36s for sale, but I would not draw the immediate conclusion that there are a load of unsatisfied Beech owners out there, as you seem to be doing with Cirrus.
I'm also no expert, but I do know that it's a high-performance single. You wouldn't expect it to handle like a C172. Maybe too many pilots have more money than training, and the insurers (rightly) are concerned.
What whole thing?
That's good
If your friend is seeking to spend £200k+ on a plane, and is looking to you to pass on some hearsay and rumour, he seems to fall into the 'more money than sense' category.
Perhaps you should advise him to talk to some owners himself, or to the Cirrus owners society, or to the US insurers - maybe even the ones who are about to blow.That's what I would do.
Now a chap I know, Florida based, is currently trying to offload his asap as are apparently a number of other owners
'dodgy' stall characteristics and lack of spin recovery
the whole thing is about to blow
he wasnt aware of anything nasty in the pipeline
I ask because a friend ... asked me for any observations I may have
Perhaps you should advise him to talk to some owners himself, or to the Cirrus owners society, or to the US insurers - maybe even the ones who are about to blow.That's what I would do.
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You are absolutely right. People in the U.S. are trying to sell there SR22's like dropping hot patatoe's !
I know of Cirrus owners are buying a new plane each year. And even owners who are going to upgrade to Adam's A500 and Eclipse jets.
Even Cirrus Design promotes this by advertising for the 'tax relief act'. Aircraft owners can write-off as much as 30 percent in one year ! This is crazy, and unfair to EU owners.
OK, and the Cirrus SRxx has a very brisk stall. That is why I am going to take lessons in parachute rigging.....
S.
I know of Cirrus owners are buying a new plane each year. And even owners who are going to upgrade to Adam's A500 and Eclipse jets.
Even Cirrus Design promotes this by advertising for the 'tax relief act'. Aircraft owners can write-off as much as 30 percent in one year ! This is crazy, and unfair to EU owners.
OK, and the Cirrus SRxx has a very brisk stall. That is why I am going to take lessons in parachute rigging.....
S.
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Sheilanagig,
It would be worth your friend posing any questions he has on COPA, the Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association. There is a free public forum and a subscription private one, and there is all sorts of other useful information on the site.
For what it's worth (and based on only 60-ish Cirrus hours) I can't say I find the stall characteristics of either the SR20 or the 22 to be particularly challenging. They can drop a wing (or sometimes not) but as long as you are at least vaguely paying attention it is really not that exciting.
If the chap in Florida is really trying to 'offload' his aircraft then please do ask him to send me a PM. I can offer a nice microlight in exchange!
It would be worth your friend posing any questions he has on COPA, the Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association. There is a free public forum and a subscription private one, and there is all sorts of other useful information on the site.
For what it's worth (and based on only 60-ish Cirrus hours) I can't say I find the stall characteristics of either the SR20 or the 22 to be particularly challenging. They can drop a wing (or sometimes not) but as long as you are at least vaguely paying attention it is really not that exciting.
If the chap in Florida is really trying to 'offload' his aircraft then please do ask him to send me a PM. I can offer a nice microlight in exchange!
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I've had my SR-22 for three years now, it was one of
the first in the UK.
Its stall characteristics are almost completely benign, the
dual profile wing gives aileron control far into the stall for
the inattentive.
The insurance issue is old news from the US - I have had
no problem in the UK, indeed my premiums have been falling.
While I have had problems with the aircraft, mostly to do
with starting it in cold weather, I would certainly recommend
the type to anyone interested in a 4-seat tourer for business or
pleasure. I've have been making my aircraft available for
differences training to upcoming Cirrus pilots in the UK.
It simply spoils you for the average aircraft...
-- Andrew
the first in the UK.
Its stall characteristics are almost completely benign, the
dual profile wing gives aileron control far into the stall for
the inattentive.
The insurance issue is old news from the US - I have had
no problem in the UK, indeed my premiums have been falling.
While I have had problems with the aircraft, mostly to do
with starting it in cold weather, I would certainly recommend
the type to anyone interested in a 4-seat tourer for business or
pleasure. I've have been making my aircraft available for
differences training to upcoming Cirrus pilots in the UK.
It simply spoils you for the average aircraft...
-- Andrew
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Cirruses are nice aeroplanes.
They do have some foibles.
Dodgy stalls and unexpected spinning is not one of them.
Those pesky doors are, they are supposedly better on the G2.
The guy trying to offload his would have done well to do a bit of reading before putting his name on the dotted line.
Cirrus was exempt from the spinning requirement for certification as they have the BRS.
They do have some foibles.
Dodgy stalls and unexpected spinning is not one of them.
Those pesky doors are, they are supposedly better on the G2.
The guy trying to offload his would have done well to do a bit of reading before putting his name on the dotted line.
Cirrus was exempt from the spinning requirement for certification as they have the BRS.
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As an owner of an Sr22G2 who talks a LOT to other owners, and reads pretty much every thread on COPA , this is all news to me !
The aircraft has no more foibles than any other I have flown, in fact I would say it has less!
Sounds like scaremongering to me , probably put about by other manufacturers trying to halt the growth of cirrus...
I will post this link in COPA , and we will see what all these US owners apparently rushing to sell have to say :-)
All the best
Bill Padley
The aircraft has no more foibles than any other I have flown, in fact I would say it has less!
Sounds like scaremongering to me , probably put about by other manufacturers trying to halt the growth of cirrus...
I will post this link in COPA , and we will see what all these US owners apparently rushing to sell have to say :-)
All the best
Bill Padley
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andrew c/vsukpadman,
wasn't perchance either of you that arrived back (three up) at an angry ex WWII field late yesterday afternoon and had to wait until I'd finished fuelling before you could get to the pump?
Stik
wasn't perchance either of you that arrived back (three up) at an angry ex WWII field late yesterday afternoon and had to wait until I'd finished fuelling before you could get to the pump?
Stik
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Stik
You said - wasn't perchance either of you that arrived back (three up) at an angry ex WWII field late yesterday afternoon and had to wait until I'd finished fuelling before you could get to the pump?
Could have been one of our three aircraft, where was it??? Was it a N147<xx> registration?
My opinion on this thread is that is definately sour grapes put out by other manufacturers and stuff. Stall is conventional. Spin Recovery is unconventional (but guarenteed!) - So whats the problem??
Bill - I would not drag COPA down to the level of such rubbish scaremongering.... like an email virus, silly comments like this one should just be ignored.
The Cirrus is simply the best designed GA plane available. No Discussion!
You said - wasn't perchance either of you that arrived back (three up) at an angry ex WWII field late yesterday afternoon and had to wait until I'd finished fuelling before you could get to the pump?
Could have been one of our three aircraft, where was it??? Was it a N147<xx> registration?
My opinion on this thread is that is definately sour grapes put out by other manufacturers and stuff. Stall is conventional. Spin Recovery is unconventional (but guarenteed!) - So whats the problem??
Bill - I would not drag COPA down to the level of such rubbish scaremongering.... like an email virus, silly comments like this one should just be ignored.
The Cirrus is simply the best designed GA plane available. No Discussion!
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Believe that the aircraft is locally owned - poss Norwich? Very pretty it was too, on the tarmac at Seething (angry WWII 'drome). Although I heard the callsign on the radio a couple of times, I couldn't recall it, it may have been Nxxx Charlie Delta.
Valenii - I fear that you are biased, everyone knows that Curtis Pitts designed the best GA aircraft, ever! It really does spoil you for other aircraft and the spinning characteristics, that don't need a BRS are FUN!
Stik
Valenii - I fear that you are biased, everyone knows that Curtis Pitts designed the best GA aircraft, ever! It really does spoil you for other aircraft and the spinning characteristics, that don't need a BRS are FUN!
Stik
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Guys just chill a little OK.....just asking!
Phil - "Trade a plane" is that a UK publication, how do I get a copy?
By the "whole thing" I mean that the current reasonable insurance quotes for reasonably competent GA pilots may soon become a thing of the past on the 22, - but not on the 20.
Re my pal he didnt ask me to pass on any "hearsay or rumour", he and I are simply looking for additional info to that which we already posess from the states, including the insurers. I kinda thought that was what PRUNE was designed for!
Fly Stim - Thanks I will try copa.
Fly Dutch - my original post is mostly concerning the 'chute' ,or precisly that the ANTICIPATION is that US insurers will not 'pay out' if God forbid the thing was deployed. Of course if you are in a position to make a claim after its deployment. As I understand it cannot be successfully deployed below 2,000ft and even if it works you will hit the ground at a fair rate of vertical descent. Dont jump at me, just what im told.
Re the stall, to be honest I havent tried it in any configuration but I ws told that whereas it is ok(ish) straight n level that the problems arise in landing configuration.
Anyways, thanks for the replies I will do as suggested and ask on COPA.
Phil - "Trade a plane" is that a UK publication, how do I get a copy?
By the "whole thing" I mean that the current reasonable insurance quotes for reasonably competent GA pilots may soon become a thing of the past on the 22, - but not on the 20.
Re my pal he didnt ask me to pass on any "hearsay or rumour", he and I are simply looking for additional info to that which we already posess from the states, including the insurers. I kinda thought that was what PRUNE was designed for!
Fly Stim - Thanks I will try copa.
Fly Dutch - my original post is mostly concerning the 'chute' ,or precisly that the ANTICIPATION is that US insurers will not 'pay out' if God forbid the thing was deployed. Of course if you are in a position to make a claim after its deployment. As I understand it cannot be successfully deployed below 2,000ft and even if it works you will hit the ground at a fair rate of vertical descent. Dont jump at me, just what im told.
Re the stall, to be honest I havent tried it in any configuration but I ws told that whereas it is ok(ish) straight n level that the problems arise in landing configuration.
Anyways, thanks for the replies I will do as suggested and ask on COPA.
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Trade-a-plane is , afaik, the benchmark US publication for buying & selling. It needs a subscription to read the ads.
ASO has almost as many planes and is free to browse
ASO has almost as many planes and is free to browse
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Some Facts about the SR22
As a SR22 owner, I am happy to share the following facts and opionions with anyone who may be considering the SR22:
- The SR22 is fast, smooth and comfortable for 4 adults (650 lbs approx).
- It handles beautifully in cruise and has has amazing slow flight characteristics due to its split wing design. Stalls are predictable and uneventful.
- 2000 ft/min climb out is easily achieved.
- The parachute can be deployed 300ft AGL from a glide and 900ft AGL from a spin. Impact is supposed to destroy the airplane but protect the occupants. Cirrus says touch-down is equilivent to a 10ft drop to the ground. However, in all 5 parachute depoymnets to date, the plane was not destroyed, in fact, some experienced only minor damage, and the passengers all walked away uninjured.
In my opinion, the combination of comfort, performance, handling, the parachute, and a stunning avionics package made the Cirrus stand out as the clear choice for my purchase decision.
A note about american taxes: I read in an earlier post that "Americans can deduct up to 30% in the first year." If purchased for personal reasons, there is no deduction. However businesses purchasing an airplane in 2004 can deduct up to 79% of the plane in the first year (conditions apply). 2004 enjoyed extra tax benefits from W's Economic Incentive plan.
I hope this is helpful.
David
- The SR22 is fast, smooth and comfortable for 4 adults (650 lbs approx).
- It handles beautifully in cruise and has has amazing slow flight characteristics due to its split wing design. Stalls are predictable and uneventful.
- 2000 ft/min climb out is easily achieved.
- The parachute can be deployed 300ft AGL from a glide and 900ft AGL from a spin. Impact is supposed to destroy the airplane but protect the occupants. Cirrus says touch-down is equilivent to a 10ft drop to the ground. However, in all 5 parachute depoymnets to date, the plane was not destroyed, in fact, some experienced only minor damage, and the passengers all walked away uninjured.
In my opinion, the combination of comfort, performance, handling, the parachute, and a stunning avionics package made the Cirrus stand out as the clear choice for my purchase decision.
A note about american taxes: I read in an earlier post that "Americans can deduct up to 30% in the first year." If purchased for personal reasons, there is no deduction. However businesses purchasing an airplane in 2004 can deduct up to 79% of the plane in the first year (conditions apply). 2004 enjoyed extra tax benefits from W's Economic Incentive plan.
I hope this is helpful.
David
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My guy says that the 'dodgy' stall characteristics and lack of spin recovery are giving the US insurers the jitters and the whole thing is about to blow. He has also mentioned that the US insurers will not payout if the chute is pulled!!
I am going to be renewing insurance very soon for my SR22, and my agent has given me no indication that renewal will be anything but routine. We talked about trends, as we have in the past, so I am sure he would have informed me if there was something bad coming down the pipeline. Also, just for the information, insurance companies will pay if the chute is pulled.
Regarding stall characteristics, I have 1,000+ hours in SR22's, and I have done a lot of maneuver practice. In my experience, this airplane would be much harder to get into a spin than a Cessna 152 or 172. The only airplane that I have flown that is more docile in a stall is the Piper Cherokee 180. Granted, the SR22 can break fast. However, you still have very good aileron authority, and unless you apply and hold the wrong control movements, I don't see how this airplane could get you into trouble.
Andy Groth
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Stik,
My Boy, you have missed the point - Mr Curtis - Sir - designed a fine aeroplane. Mr Christensen refined and developed the original, rudimentary prototype into the fine gentleman's carriage that is - the Christen Eagle !
Pitts, Yea, OK, Eagle, comfort, space, ease of landing, stunning colourscheme, wonderful canopy, yadda, yadda, yadda
My Boy, you have missed the point - Mr Curtis - Sir - designed a fine aeroplane. Mr Christensen refined and developed the original, rudimentary prototype into the fine gentleman's carriage that is - the Christen Eagle !
Pitts, Yea, OK, Eagle, comfort, space, ease of landing, stunning colourscheme, wonderful canopy, yadda, yadda, yadda
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stik
That would be Dave Bouchers plane. It is based there I think, he bought it second hand in the us and had it flown over. He is very happy.
And yes I am bias sorry. l am in love with my plane, and love is blind.
Also on the insurance Topic I reckon that if the plane is lost but no one is hurt, that must result in a lower claims on insurance than one where people die.
That would be Dave Bouchers plane. It is based there I think, he bought it second hand in the us and had it flown over. He is very happy.
And yes I am bias sorry. l am in love with my plane, and love is blind.
Also on the insurance Topic I reckon that if the plane is lost but no one is hurt, that must result in a lower claims on insurance than one where people die.
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Javelin - Eagle is a gentleman's aerial conveyance. Some of us are still a bit young to want to fall into that sedentary role!
Valenii - you are right DB apparently does own the aeroplane, it is incredibly pretty and seems to land at a stunning rate of knots (no criticism intended or implied). I wonder how the type would cope with 600 metres of grass?
Stik
Valenii - you are right DB apparently does own the aeroplane, it is incredibly pretty and seems to land at a stunning rate of knots (no criticism intended or implied). I wonder how the type would cope with 600 metres of grass?
Stik
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I've flown into Fenland, 594m grass, with my SR-22 on
a number of occasions without any problem, landing in
400m, taking off in 350m though the POH is more
pessimitic.
-- Andrew
a number of occasions without any problem, landing in
400m, taking off in 350m though the POH is more
pessimitic.
-- Andrew