Getting an Airways clearance
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 395
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From: London
Getting an Airways clearance
I have an American Instrument rating and i've had trouble getting Airways joining clearances.
Before going in the Airway I used to speak to Lyneham RAF and get a clearance from London via them and then instructed, with a squawk and intial level, to call London shortly afterwards.
Sometimes they don't arrange the clearance and one day told me to FREECALL London Airways straight off. London airways told me I was on the wrong freqency and to go to Lon. Info 124.75 and they told me to go back to Lyneham!! I am really finding it very confusing, not to mention concentrating on flying the plane in pea soup!
Any comments>>
Before going in the Airway I used to speak to Lyneham RAF and get a clearance from London via them and then instructed, with a squawk and intial level, to call London shortly afterwards.
Sometimes they don't arrange the clearance and one day told me to FREECALL London Airways straight off. London airways told me I was on the wrong freqency and to go to Lon. Info 124.75 and they told me to go back to Lyneham!! I am really finding it very confusing, not to mention concentrating on flying the plane in pea soup!
Any comments>>
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: UK
Sorry if I'm trying to teach you to suck eggs, but Flight plan? Radio Procedures? I did my CAA IR with a FAA IR pilot and he really struggled with the radio. If you are struggling with the flying and the talking, maybe some recurrency training might be useful.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Here we go again...... Where shall one start? 
He has an FAA IR, and FAR 91.169 allow ATC to issue an IFR clearance without a flightplan. It's called a pop-up and you can get them in far busier airspace than found in the UK. Perhaps some friendly difference training via this web site is all that's needed?
He has an FAA IR, and FAR 91.169 allow ATC to issue an IFR clearance without a flightplan. It's called a pop-up and you can get them in far busier airspace than found in the UK. Perhaps some friendly difference training via this web site is all that's needed?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 355
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From: united kingdom
nouseforaname -- from my own experience:
First let's assume you have filed a flight plan and it has been activated. Yes, I know it's theoretically possible to file a full flighplan when in flight, but it's messy and makes your life very hard indeed.
Second, if you are flying from an ATC/FIS field and aiming to join CAS shortly after departure, your departure ATSU should get your clearance for you -- even if it is only 'remain clear of controlled airspace, squawk xxxx and contact 123.45 when instructed.'
If you are departing from an ATC/FIS field, but your airspace join point is many miles away, an en-route request for a clearance via London Info will usually be successful if you call the early enough and with a good estimate for your join point. However, don't try this on a sunny weekend in summer. Success will often depend on whether the airways controller has prior knowledge of your flight, ie has a computer produced a strip for him.
I suspect you are departing from an uncontrolled field. In this case, you need the help of a local ATSU. This is best arranged by telephone before departure. You're really asking a favour so be nice. Tell them what you plan to do, where you want the join and when you will depart. Ideally send them a copy of your flight plan. Then freecall them after departure with your estimate for your join point and (usually) all will be well.
I fly from an uncontrolled field, so have had this problem from time to time. The above paragraph is my solution.
AA.
First let's assume you have filed a flight plan and it has been activated. Yes, I know it's theoretically possible to file a full flighplan when in flight, but it's messy and makes your life very hard indeed.
Second, if you are flying from an ATC/FIS field and aiming to join CAS shortly after departure, your departure ATSU should get your clearance for you -- even if it is only 'remain clear of controlled airspace, squawk xxxx and contact 123.45 when instructed.'
If you are departing from an ATC/FIS field, but your airspace join point is many miles away, an en-route request for a clearance via London Info will usually be successful if you call the early enough and with a good estimate for your join point. However, don't try this on a sunny weekend in summer. Success will often depend on whether the airways controller has prior knowledge of your flight, ie has a computer produced a strip for him.
I suspect you are departing from an uncontrolled field. In this case, you need the help of a local ATSU. This is best arranged by telephone before departure. You're really asking a favour so be nice. Tell them what you plan to do, where you want the join and when you will depart. Ideally send them a copy of your flight plan. Then freecall them after departure with your estimate for your join point and (usually) all will be well.
I fly from an uncontrolled field, so have had this problem from time to time. The above paragraph is my solution.
AA.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
What englishal,
You cannot call up and just say 'London Radar, November 12345 is a PA28/A, 15 south of London, request IFR clearance to Heathrow, landing with X-ray'?
With the modernest and most expensive ATC system in the world?
Oh stop it....
You cannot call up and just say 'London Radar, November 12345 is a PA28/A, 15 south of London, request IFR clearance to Heathrow, landing with X-ray'?
With the modernest and most expensive ATC system in the world?
Oh stop it....
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
As I'd already be with London Control, getting VFR flight following, my RT would be:
London, N12345 request
N12345 go ahead
N12345 request IFR to Heathrow
Roger standby
N12345 is cleared to Heathrow, turn left heading 160, join V363, climb and maintain 5000, sqwark 4462
Then it'd be:
N12345 turn left heading 050 maintain 2000 until established cleared for the ILS 9R approach. Contact the tower at the outer marked good day.....
easy peasy japaneasy
there I go, dreaming again
London, N12345 request
N12345 go ahead
N12345 request IFR to Heathrow
Roger standby
N12345 is cleared to Heathrow, turn left heading 160, join V363, climb and maintain 5000, sqwark 4462
Then it'd be:
N12345 turn left heading 050 maintain 2000 until established cleared for the ILS 9R approach. Contact the tower at the outer marked good day.....
easy peasy japaneasy
there I go, dreaming again
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 395
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From: London
Thanks Alphaalpha,
and for the record (not directed at alphaalpha) I did realise you need to file a flight plan. I thought that was so obivous that it didn't really need to be stated, however I was mistaken.
Yes I fly out of a Farm strip, and when I freecall the local radar people they just pass me on to someone else or say call up London airways which made me look like a bit of a fool amid the big jet's calling.
So what i should do is call up the local ATSU as u say and get the clearance form them. thanks for the reply.
One other thing. On an airways chart i've got an AERAD one, the airways which have an arrow on pointing a single direction, does this mean that airway can only be travelled in that direction. This probably sounds really stupid to someone who knows what they are talking about!
just a message for russel.
yes i did register this name today and I wanted to get some info from real pilots. Something tells me your just a kid trying to annoy everyone.
and for the record (not directed at alphaalpha) I did realise you need to file a flight plan. I thought that was so obivous that it didn't really need to be stated, however I was mistaken.
Yes I fly out of a Farm strip, and when I freecall the local radar people they just pass me on to someone else or say call up London airways which made me look like a bit of a fool amid the big jet's calling.
So what i should do is call up the local ATSU as u say and get the clearance form them. thanks for the reply.
One other thing. On an airways chart i've got an AERAD one, the airways which have an arrow on pointing a single direction, does this mean that airway can only be travelled in that direction. This probably sounds really stupid to someone who knows what they are talking about!
just a message for russel.
yes i did register this name today and I wanted to get some info from real pilots. Something tells me your just a kid trying to annoy everyone.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 142
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From: Manchester
nouseforaname : How dare you ask a question the same day you register, don't you know the incubation period is 6 months.......or so it seems.
To more serious matters, seems like you got your answer and am pleased at that, you see there are some on here who can be helpful, cheers.
To more serious matters, seems like you got your answer and am pleased at that, you see there are some on here who can be helpful, cheers.
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: TL487591
nouseforaname
You may find getting a clearance from outside controlled airspace challenging, but one way airways are no different in the UK to the US.
Maybe a little brush up of your knowledge would be worthwhile.
Get your airways join initially with London Info (or FIR frequency as appropriate), who will give you a squawk and hand you to the relevant airways sector when/if accepted.
Expect to provide a time of departure, and a level of intersection/beacon for airways join along with an ETA for the joining point.
2D
You may find getting a clearance from outside controlled airspace challenging, but one way airways are no different in the UK to the US.
Maybe a little brush up of your knowledge would be worthwhile.
Get your airways join initially with London Info (or FIR frequency as appropriate), who will give you a squawk and hand you to the relevant airways sector when/if accepted.
Expect to provide a time of departure, and a level of intersection/beacon for airways join along with an ETA for the joining point.
2D
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 232
Likes: 1
From: EGJJ
You have to file a flight plan which gets passed to CFMU at Brussels, then if it is accepted(route/level etc.) and a slot time will be issued if you are routing on a restricted airway or there are delays at your destination. The European system is completely different to the US system and you cannot just call up the controller and get a clearance, they arebusy enough with traffic that has adhered to the correct procedure, to be bothered with popup traffic without flight plans. All flight plans are fed into the computer at Brussels and when you contact the FIR controller (124,6/124.75 in the South of England) they will feed your callsign into the computer and all your details will appear. He then has to liase with the Airway controller to get a ATC clearance. You will very rarely get an Airways clearance in the UK without a flight plan especially in the South.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 395
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From: London
Thanks for all the help. I think what my problem was is that the people I was talking to (ATC that is) realised that I wasn't that confident and took the piss a bit. I've spoken with an Air traffic controller friend of my dad's and she says quite often they will try and pass thier buck.
many thanks.
many thanks.
Guest
Posts: n/a
In this case, you need the help of a local ATSU. This is best arranged by telephone before departure. You're really asking a favour so be nice.
File a flight plan, pick the ATC unit you call for a clearance wisely (maybe copy them in on the FPL address list and add a comment that you'll request a joining clearance with them), and bob's your uncle.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,294
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From: UK
Umm pass the buck eh, well thats not the ATC service I work in. However if you are talking to the wrong people then there is often little they can do to help you.
I suggest you take up Chilli's option and PM him with your details so he can direct you to the correct procedure for your particular situation.
I suggest you take up Chilli's option and PM him with your details so he can direct you to the correct procedure for your particular situation.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
I've looked at the posts here because I am doing an IR. I have the IMC Rating and fly IFR (UK) regularly, outside Class A.
It seems incomprehensible to me that someone with an IR might not know how to join the "system". What sort of instructor did they have? Someone with an IR who never flies anywhere?
It seems incomprehensible to me that someone with an IR might not know how to join the "system". What sort of instructor did they have? Someone with an IR who never flies anywhere?