Marking Charts
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Suave yet Shallow
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: half way between the gutter and the stars.
Marking Charts
Another simple one, just curious if there's differing methods to those I use, but what do you use to mark your charts with and how much info do you stick on your intended routes?
I tend to use the pens to mark a route rather than chinagraph pencils as they rub off too easily. I leave gaps in the track at interesting or noteworthy points so i can see them. I put a box next to each leg with heading, time and msa on, and on the track line I try to put a tiny perpendicular line at 5 min markers. I find this keeps things pretty clutter free and I always have freq & other info on my knee board.
What else do you guys stick on your charts when going Xcountry? (does anyone do those 5/10 degree error lines, I could never really see much point in them?)
Finally, do you all use meths to clean the charts afterwards or is there something else less flammable which I could use, erm just curious after a little incident once upon a time with a meths soaked rag.
(having said all that, I hardly ever use those chinagraph pencils so why do all pilot shops sell them at ridiculous prices?)
I tend to use the pens to mark a route rather than chinagraph pencils as they rub off too easily. I leave gaps in the track at interesting or noteworthy points so i can see them. I put a box next to each leg with heading, time and msa on, and on the track line I try to put a tiny perpendicular line at 5 min markers. I find this keeps things pretty clutter free and I always have freq & other info on my knee board.
What else do you guys stick on your charts when going Xcountry? (does anyone do those 5/10 degree error lines, I could never really see much point in them?)
Finally, do you all use meths to clean the charts afterwards or is there something else less flammable which I could use, erm just curious after a little incident once upon a time with a meths soaked rag.
(having said all that, I hardly ever use those chinagraph pencils so why do all pilot shops sell them at ridiculous prices?)
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
I use permanant OHP pens and surgical spirit to clean afterwards.
On my charts I put the route lines, the wind arrows and the frequencies that I am going to talk to. Mag headings for the routes and thats it.
A friend of mine uses perfume to clean his as his wife is a fragrance evaluator. His charts always smell like a tarts handbag!
On my charts I put the route lines, the wind arrows and the frequencies that I am going to talk to. Mag headings for the routes and thats it.
A friend of mine uses perfume to clean his as his wife is a fragrance evaluator. His charts always smell like a tarts handbag!
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Leicestershire
When radio navigating I mark DME to a know beacon (preferably the one I'm tracking). It's nice to be in the air overhead a landmark and have the expected DME reading on the box. I'll also add DME marks on my course for the boundaries of CAS (when applicable), my destination and any turning points.
Since the DME is not always at the station I'm tracking, I always mark the name of the DME with the d reading. So for example, tracking LIC to WPL NDB's I used SWB DME and mark the course with, for example, "06dSWB".
Also for VOR tracking I'll write the radial or reciprocal radial I intend to track on the map. (I.e. what I'll set the OBS to).
Marking wise - OHP permanent marker and a quick spray of Lynx deodorant. Care required with girlies in the plane - it's the Lynx effect.
(they just can't keep their hands off my map).
Since the DME is not always at the station I'm tracking, I always mark the name of the DME with the d reading. So for example, tracking LIC to WPL NDB's I used SWB DME and mark the course with, for example, "06dSWB".
Also for VOR tracking I'll write the radial or reciprocal radial I intend to track on the map. (I.e. what I'll set the OBS to).
Marking wise - OHP permanent marker and a quick spray of Lynx deodorant. Care required with girlies in the plane - it's the Lynx effect.
(they just can't keep their hands off my map).
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Cambridgeshire
topcat450
Try using a pencil eraser to rub off permanent ohp pens. only on the laminated charts of course.
I have drilled a whole in one and put it on the ring binder or my kneeboard so always available.
Cheers,
Pull Back
Try using a pencil eraser to rub off permanent ohp pens. only on the laminated charts of course.
I have drilled a whole in one and put it on the ring binder or my kneeboard so always available.
Cheers,
Pull Back
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
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From: Oop North, UK
Most people I know use 6 min markers rather than 5 (and for many light aircraft is one "thumb" in light winds - handy for diversions). Why? - because 6mins is 1/10th your groundspeed so dead easy to work out. Some people find the 5/10 degree lines handy, but I would suggest just putting them on ONE side of track rather than both to avoid to much clutter.
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: SX in SX in UK
I use a red permanent marker pen, it makes a nice wide and obvious line, but doesn't obscure the map detail, unlike a black marker which is too dense . Then I clean it off with meths.
Handy tip - don't leave a chinagraph pencil in a closed cockpit in the sun!
as it goes all limp & floppy hence the expression......
Handy tip - don't leave a chinagraph pencil in a closed cockpit in the sun!
as it goes all limp & floppy hence the expression......
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: N.E. Derbyshire, UK
I keep my charts simple - permanent OHP pens to draw the track (non-permanent are easy to rub off but tend to leave excellent stains on clothes and wipe off all too easily just when you don't want). I put a perpendicular mark at each checkpoint or turning point and give each one a number, and then write the corresponding number against the turning point on the PLOG.
Where there is no turning point I select a notable landmark/VRP at around 20 miles or roughly ten minute intervals. So if I get lost I should never be more than ten mins. from where I knew I was, or at least where I thought I was, or wherever I was last time I was wherever I was at.... I think...
Where there is no turning point I select a notable landmark/VRP at around 20 miles or roughly ten minute intervals. So if I get lost I should never be more than ten mins. from where I knew I was, or at least where I thought I was, or wherever I was last time I was wherever I was at.... I think...
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Bordeaux, France
Charts over here in France are paper, so I mark one line in 5B pencil from departure to destination, and also an arrow with the Wind direction. And thats it.... no fan lines, no 5 min marks, nothing else. I have a Plog. And the other thing I use..... (wait for it, loads of incoming after this statement..) .... is a Garmin 196 GPS!!
KISS.
Regards, SD.
KISS.
Regards, SD.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place
A great tip I picked up in a previous life was to use nailpolish remover pads (used to be called "Quickies") to remove permenant marker from laminated surfaces.
They come in little plastic containers of about 20 pads and are really handy as all you need is one pad, clean your map (or whatever) then throw it away. Removes the need for carrying bottles of meths or surgical spirit around.
Have a hunt in Boots for them!
Shame the box is pink instead of red now!!
They come in little plastic containers of about 20 pads and are really handy as all you need is one pad, clean your map (or whatever) then throw it away. Removes the need for carrying bottles of meths or surgical spirit around.
Have a hunt in Boots for them!
Shame the box is pink instead of red now!!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 62
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From: UK
Top tip someone gave me for removing permanant marker from your map - simply draw over the top of it with a wider non-permanant marker and then wipe off!
Try it - it works.
Means you only have to carry one extra pen instead of any solvents or erasers.
Try it - it works.
Means you only have to carry one extra pen instead of any solvents or erasers.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Permanent marker for course lines.
Non permanent wipe indeed off easy and on anything.
The rest of the stuff goes on my A4 PLOG with a normal biro which I attached to it with a long piece of string (well actually one of these thingemebobses for carrying your glasses round your neck)
With the map folded in a handy format (as a concertina) and the PLOG on a big board it seems to work fine.
Can't remember list time I marked wind or distance markers on the map.
My 8nm thumb (ha you thought your 8inch thing was impressive) works well if I want to know a distance. I found any predrawn distance markers never marked the distance to any point I wanted to know.
Try what suits you best!
FD
Non permanent wipe indeed off easy and on anything.
The rest of the stuff goes on my A4 PLOG with a normal biro which I attached to it with a long piece of string (well actually one of these thingemebobses for carrying your glasses round your neck)
With the map folded in a handy format (as a concertina) and the PLOG on a big board it seems to work fine.
Can't remember list time I marked wind or distance markers on the map.
My 8nm thumb (ha you thought your 8inch thing was impressive) works well if I want to know a distance. I found any predrawn distance markers never marked the distance to any point I wanted to know.
Try what suits you best!
FD
High Flying Bird
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Old Sarum ish
I draw a course line in permanent marker, leaving gaps for navigational features. To one side of the track I draw a large wind arrow. I circle airfields if I'm landing away. I also mark parachute sites & anything NOTAMed with a black circle & a cartoon to remind me what it is.
To clean the chart I keep a little bottle of AVGAS - when I do a fuel check I top the bottle up rather than throwing the fuel away. It smells nice and it's free (ish).
To clean the chart I keep a little bottle of AVGAS - when I do a fuel check I top the bottle up rather than throwing the fuel away. It smells nice and it's free (ish).
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Earth
I'm afraid i'm not as "perfectus" as the previous posters.
I buy a new chart and then draw my routes in biro as and when I have to go places. When my chart looks like a real spiders web I email Transair for a new one......
........I buy seven charts per year. At least I know I am getting the latest version every eight weeks!!!!!!!
I buy a new chart and then draw my routes in biro as and when I have to go places. When my chart looks like a real spiders web I email Transair for a new one......
........I buy seven charts per year. At least I know I am getting the latest version every eight weeks!!!!!!!
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: London
And what do y'all (sorry I'm in the Deep South ATM) do to permanently mark your laminated map (for example with the dimensions of the new improved EMA CTR), such that it doesn't come off with nail polish removing pads?
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Just to be different, I prefer the Jeppesen paper charts, so for permanent marking I use biro, and for temporary marking, soft pencil.
As to what, it depends upon what I'm flying. If I'm in a light (or occasionally not so light) aircraft that allows me to have a guide next to me, it'll have little more than track lines, headings, and segment distances.
If I'm flying a microlight, I'll include approach details, times, magnetic corrections - basically everything since you really need everything on your map in an open cockpit. To a lesser extent, I do the same in an enclosed single seater - although you can at-least put your approach plate separately.
One reason I switched to Jeppesens, is that when I last used one, the CAA chart didn't include radio frequencies, morse idents and runway lengths and directions, which Jeppesens does (and I used to add in with fine OHP pens to my CAA chart). If the CAA charts have changed since then, the Jeps are still cheaper and fit in my kneeboard more easily.
G
As to what, it depends upon what I'm flying. If I'm in a light (or occasionally not so light) aircraft that allows me to have a guide next to me, it'll have little more than track lines, headings, and segment distances.
If I'm flying a microlight, I'll include approach details, times, magnetic corrections - basically everything since you really need everything on your map in an open cockpit. To a lesser extent, I do the same in an enclosed single seater - although you can at-least put your approach plate separately.
One reason I switched to Jeppesens, is that when I last used one, the CAA chart didn't include radio frequencies, morse idents and runway lengths and directions, which Jeppesens does (and I used to add in with fine OHP pens to my CAA chart). If the CAA charts have changed since then, the Jeps are still cheaper and fit in my kneeboard more easily.
G
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Similarly to Genghis, I use paper charts & soft pencils. I loathe laminated charts & the rooting arount with needing 'special' pens, wipers etc.
Paper is so much easier to fold & is less bulky. A soft pencil can be erased easily & without harming the underlying surface, you can use the same pencil on a whiz wheel, flight plan/plog, notes etc etc.
Pre-flight I mark the track(s) on the chart. Nothing else.
In flight I mark pinpoints/fixes & DR or air positions along with the time. If a major heading correction then I may add the new heading to the fix details. If diverting I mark the track(s) as per my pre-flight item.
Paper is so much easier to fold & is less bulky. A soft pencil can be erased easily & without harming the underlying surface, you can use the same pencil on a whiz wheel, flight plan/plog, notes etc etc.
Pre-flight I mark the track(s) on the chart. Nothing else.
In flight I mark pinpoints/fixes & DR or air positions along with the time. If a major heading correction then I may add the new heading to the fix details. If diverting I mark the track(s) as per my pre-flight item.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Smurph Castle
CAA chart didn't include radio frequencies, morse idents and runway lengths and directions
Someone pointed out that having frequencies is very helpful until they get changed mid-year, but being lazy I don't mind to much about that. Anyway, it's going to be in the NOTAMs, isn't it?
FWIW, my two mates who learnt to fly concurrently with me under the same instructor have taken to ridiculing me for persisting with 6 minute marks, wind arrows and circling things that could upset me, but I don't care. One never knows when one's going to have a mid-air vague moment.
I like permanant markers, I think green is the only colour for your line, when I go abroad I laminate my Jepps charts to prove it, and I take my ancient bottle of nail varnish remover (glad to find a use for it, given that I never wear nail varnish!).
Nice flying day yesterday, what?
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Purely personal, but I dislike the use of 6 minute (or any other kind of minute) marks. Why? - because circumstances may require me to change speed, altitude, or the wind correction may change.
When doing everything from the chart, I much prefer distance marks - usually 6nm or 12nm depending upon flying speed, and note time at each. That way if it took 5½ minutes since the last mark, and there are 4 marks to a waypoint, I know with little requirement for mental arithmetic that it'll take me 22 minutes to get there. Particularly useful when planning "on the hoof", diverting, or being asked by ATC to give estimates to spots en-route that you'd not worked out for.
G
When doing everything from the chart, I much prefer distance marks - usually 6nm or 12nm depending upon flying speed, and note time at each. That way if it took 5½ minutes since the last mark, and there are 4 marks to a waypoint, I know with little requirement for mental arithmetic that it'll take me 22 minutes to get there. Particularly useful when planning "on the hoof", diverting, or being asked by ATC to give estimates to spots en-route that you'd not worked out for.
G
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Green, and red, marks become virtually invisible if you use red cockpit lighting. That means a requirement to have a separate 'night' pen or only fly at night using white cockpit lights.
A pencil works day & night.
A pencil works day & night.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
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From: Bournemouth
Genghis,
Re the 6-minute marks... one advantage of them over other methods, I find, is that they don't need to remain 6-minute marks for the whole flight. For example, if you find yourself flying slower than planned for whatever reason, they suddenly become 7-minute marks. This makes it extremely easy to calculate new ETAs, even when you're not at a convenient point such as the half-way point of you leg. Just my personal preference, of course.... this is a very individual thing.
FFF
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Re the 6-minute marks... one advantage of them over other methods, I find, is that they don't need to remain 6-minute marks for the whole flight. For example, if you find yourself flying slower than planned for whatever reason, they suddenly become 7-minute marks. This makes it extremely easy to calculate new ETAs, even when you're not at a convenient point such as the half-way point of you leg. Just my personal preference, of course.... this is a very individual thing.
FFF
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