Matz, Met, Muddled
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 26
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From: Manchester
Matz, Met, Muddled
I was intending to fly a solo nav training flight down the Manchester Low Level Route to Shrewsbury this morning, to practice a MATZ penetration, but the weather wasn't entirely in my favour, with a fairly low cloud base forecast along the route.
As the cloud was beginning to clear around the Manchester area my instructor asked me to phone Shawbury and/or Sleap to ask what the current weather was in their area.
So, I rang Shawbury, asked what the weather was like and he replied......'we have Phase III Bravo' Oh, so that'll be, like, raining, no er, beautiful clear blue skies, no um, little fluffy clouds...What the...!!?? Thank God the wee man at Sleap spoke normal like what I do.
So now I've been instructed by my instructor to find out what a Phase III Bravo weather state is. Tried T. Thom, no good. Searched here, no joy.
What does it mean and where can I found out what Phase I Alpha etc. means?
Thanks
Gilkster
As the cloud was beginning to clear around the Manchester area my instructor asked me to phone Shawbury and/or Sleap to ask what the current weather was in their area.
So, I rang Shawbury, asked what the weather was like and he replied......'we have Phase III Bravo' Oh, so that'll be, like, raining, no er, beautiful clear blue skies, no um, little fluffy clouds...What the...!!?? Thank God the wee man at Sleap spoke normal like what I do.
So now I've been instructed by my instructor to find out what a Phase III Bravo weather state is. Tried T. Thom, no good. Searched here, no joy.
What does it mean and where can I found out what Phase I Alpha etc. means?
Thanks
Gilkster
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 581
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From: Bordeaux, France
Gilky,
Im pretty sure you have just dicovered the great Mil -civvy divide. I remember someone talking about this a couple of years ago, the military have a whole system of weather states - try asking on the mil forum.
Regards SD..
PS why didnt you just ask the guy to speak English like I would have done?
Im pretty sure you have just dicovered the great Mil -civvy divide. I remember someone talking about this a couple of years ago, the military have a whole system of weather states - try asking on the mil forum.
Regards SD..
PS why didnt you just ask the guy to speak English like I would have done?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 262
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From: UK.
Gilky, must admit I have never asked either. I am suposed to be flying from a strip near Shawbury tomorrow, and always ring them first to tell them we are flying. if I think on, I will ask the nice man what it is. The ATIS always starts flying phase alpha or whatever. Was it the ATIS or a human you spoke to.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,402
Likes: 858
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
The 'Phase' system is an entirely military flying training system which incorporates weather conditions and student capabilities into one format for use by the authorising officer. It is not for use by anyone else outside the unit and it's hardly surprising that it meant nothing to you.
The person who gave you such irrelevant information was probably incapable of understanding that all you wanted was 'the current METAR'....
The 'Phase' system - a dear old anachronism - is not the same as the slightly more familiar 'colour state' weather system.
The person who gave you such irrelevant information was probably incapable of understanding that all you wanted was 'the current METAR'....
The 'Phase' system - a dear old anachronism - is not the same as the slightly more familiar 'colour state' weather system.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 26
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From: Manchester
IO540,
It's not just a call. Transiting the zone you are probably asked to squawk specific codes, fly specific altitudes, fly specific vectors, or re-route slightly, after which regain your original track, while obtaining a radar info service. All good flying/RT practice and experience for a student PPL, IMHO.
Guess I just must have caught them on a bad day re the weather request. Couldn't have been more helpful when I reached and transited the zone though.
But I ask again - does anyone actually know what a Phase III Bravo weather status means - just to demonstrate my initiative to my instructor.
G
It's not just a call. Transiting the zone you are probably asked to squawk specific codes, fly specific altitudes, fly specific vectors, or re-route slightly, after which regain your original track, while obtaining a radar info service. All good flying/RT practice and experience for a student PPL, IMHO.
Guess I just must have caught them on a bad day re the weather request. Couldn't have been more helpful when I reached and transited the zone though.
But I ask again - does anyone actually know what a Phase III Bravo weather status means - just to demonstrate my initiative to my instructor.
G
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,212
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From: Anywhere
From my dim and distant memory:
Phase 1: Instructional flying, Instrument recoveries mandatory
Phase 2: Instructional flying, Visual recoveries acceptable
Phase 3: Solo students in the circuit only (I'm guessing that Shawbury split this into 'A' circuits and 'B' local heli areas adjacent to the airfield)
Phase 4: Solo students permitted in the local area, but must be available for weather re-calls
Phase 5: Unrestricted flying.
But as others have said, and this applies wherever you are - if you ask for weather and someone gives you some nonsense you don't understand then ask them again until they get the message. After all - you're the one speaking English, not coded gobbledegook
Phase 1: Instructional flying, Instrument recoveries mandatory
Phase 2: Instructional flying, Visual recoveries acceptable
Phase 3: Solo students in the circuit only (I'm guessing that Shawbury split this into 'A' circuits and 'B' local heli areas adjacent to the airfield)
Phase 4: Solo students permitted in the local area, but must be available for weather re-calls
Phase 5: Unrestricted flying.
But as others have said, and this applies wherever you are - if you ask for weather and someone gives you some nonsense you don't understand then ask them again until they get the message. After all - you're the one speaking English, not coded gobbledegook
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 636
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From: Spanish Riviera
I think CM has it about right. The point is that the terminology is only significant to training aircraft based at the airfiled. Find a fast pointy thing with bombs on and he would be equally confused.
As someone hinted, your more likely to get a colour code, this being standard across the military. Ordinarily, if you ask the met man about fluffy things, he will talk about fluffy things. Finally, you did the right thing in talking to Sleap as they usually use Shawbury METARs and TAFs for their own purposes.
As someone hinted, your more likely to get a colour code, this being standard across the military. Ordinarily, if you ask the met man about fluffy things, he will talk about fluffy things. Finally, you did the right thing in talking to Sleap as they usually use Shawbury METARs and TAFs for their own purposes.
Northern Monkey
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 217
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From: Newcastle, England
Met men are normally more than happy to talk about weather, especially if you talk to the duty forecaster, rather than an observer. If they are not too busy, then they will normally tell you exactly what they expect to happen and why, in much more detail than a TAF/METAR.
If you ask qustions like, id like to fly from a to b, and return at time c, do you think the weather is going to hold out, you get a much more detailed answer than if you ask can you tell me the current metar for airfield a?
If you ask qustions like, id like to fly from a to b, and return at time c, do you think the weather is going to hold out, you get a much more detailed answer than if you ask can you tell me the current metar for airfield a?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 262
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From: UK.
The nice man at Shawbury confirmed it is a weather thing for how far from the field students can venture depending on weather.Today's was flying phase 3 Alpha, and the status was green. Not exactly brilliant, but flyable by late morning.
Bet your Instuctor told you to find out as he did'nt know himself.
Bet your Instuctor told you to find out as he did'nt know himself.
