What to log club checkouts as?
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I think you have to differenciate between "club" check-outs and "required by the regulations" check-outs or training flights. If it's just for the club's own regulations, then the pilot, not the instructor, is PIC and thus puts it down in his book accordingly... whether the instrutor gets paid or not.... unless the club designates in writing that for this particular flight the instructor is PIC. All "required" check-out and training flights, like the one for revalidation, the instrutor is PIC. The same with flights with an examiner.
That's the way I see it.
We have people writting down times (though not PIC) when they are in the right seat claiming they helped with the radio work or navigation. They don't realise that normal single-engine non-commercial flying is only required to have ONE pilot on board and thus they are to be considered passengers. I even heard of a guy writing the times in his logbook while he was flying in the rear seat!
aw, come on now.... 
Westy
That's the way I see it.
We have people writting down times (though not PIC) when they are in the right seat claiming they helped with the radio work or navigation. They don't realise that normal single-engine non-commercial flying is only required to have ONE pilot on board and thus they are to be considered passengers. I even heard of a guy writing the times in his logbook while he was flying in the rear seat!
aw, come on now.... Westy
Join Date: Jun 2003
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A logbook is your own personal property so you can write what you like in it - as long as you don't use the total # to obtain some advantage.
I know a man who logs passenger flights with me, and it's not my business what he writes in there. Also lots of people "log" their visits to the CAA safety seminars; they lay out their logbooks open on the table so the CAA man can apply his official gold plated rubber stamp to the logbook, and they can go home with a nice warm feeling that they are now 23.5 times less likely to have an accident
Incidentally there ARE instructors that have only a PPL. Up to about 20-30 years ago this was allowed, and from what I've been told one could get grandfathered rights to what became a BCPL, then one could even get an IMC Rating granted on the basis of that.
I know a man who logs passenger flights with me, and it's not my business what he writes in there. Also lots of people "log" their visits to the CAA safety seminars; they lay out their logbooks open on the table so the CAA man can apply his official gold plated rubber stamp to the logbook, and they can go home with a nice warm feeling that they are now 23.5 times less likely to have an accident
Incidentally there ARE instructors that have only a PPL. Up to about 20-30 years ago this was allowed, and from what I've been told one could get grandfathered rights to what became a BCPL, then one could even get an IMC Rating granted on the basis of that.
Join Date: May 2003
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Is this not fairly obvious. Unless it is a flight where you are under training for a rating or qualification then you can log P1. When I did my tail wheel training I logged it Pu/t because it was required for the tail wheel sign off. When I later had a check ride on my group's L4 it was P1 because the check ride was a purely private internal requirement of the club. In the next few days I shall be checked out on a C172 - that too will be P1, though I will have another pilot with me who just happens to be a CFI. The check ride is for the owner's and the insurers' peace of mind. It is not a legal requirement - if it was a C182 with a constant speed prop or retractable gear it would be Pu/t because of the differences training requirements.
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Justiciar
exactly what I meant...
IO540
of course you can write in a log book what you want.... but you better put the times in the proper column! We're talking here about the times that can be recorded for revalidation and other required time.... not just for personal information like a diary. Actually, the log book is considered in some countries as an "official" document!
Up until introduction of JAR-FCL last year, it was not required for German PPL instructors to have a CPL. Even now new instructors only need the written CPL exam! I think whoever gets as far as passing the written goes on to get the whole thing... but it's not required here (yet). For the "old" instrutors the "Grandfather rights" let them continue instructing without a CPL ... and get paid for it!
Westy
exactly what I meant...
IO540
of course you can write in a log book what you want.... but you better put the times in the proper column! We're talking here about the times that can be recorded for revalidation and other required time.... not just for personal information like a diary. Actually, the log book is considered in some countries as an "official" document!
Up until introduction of JAR-FCL last year, it was not required for German PPL instructors to have a CPL. Even now new instructors only need the written CPL exam! I think whoever gets as far as passing the written goes on to get the whole thing... but it's not required here (yet). For the "old" instrutors the "Grandfather rights" let them continue instructing without a CPL ... and get paid for it!
Westy
Is it common practise in the USA for more than one person to log P1 for a flight?
I'm over there at the moment, and found a very cheap per hour C 150.
Having never flown a 150 or 152 before, I went for a check out two satisfy myself that I could fly it (I have flown 172s, but thats as close as Id been), as well as the school's requirement for private hire.
RHS was an instructor. On landing, he logs the time as P1 and tells me I can also log P1... his reasoning was that he never touched the controls.
Is this normal?
It also seems common practise for instructors to fill out student's logbooks for them... whereas back home (Oz) everyone I know has been filling out their own logbooks since the Trial Flight...
I'm over there at the moment, and found a very cheap per hour C 150.
Having never flown a 150 or 152 before, I went for a check out two satisfy myself that I could fly it (I have flown 172s, but thats as close as Id been), as well as the school's requirement for private hire.
RHS was an instructor. On landing, he logs the time as P1 and tells me I can also log P1... his reasoning was that he never touched the controls.
Is this normal?
It also seems common practise for instructors to fill out student's logbooks for them... whereas back home (Oz) everyone I know has been filling out their own logbooks since the Trial Flight...
Join Date: May 2001
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I ask the instructor what I should log it as, and then I log it according to what they say. I don't care what they log....Most have said PIC or P1.
If *training* in a G reg, I log it as Dual received in my un-holy-FAA-logbook, if a club checkout I log it as Dual received and PIC, and funnily enough, if flying on my own, log it as PIC.
EA
If *training* in a G reg, I log it as Dual received in my un-holy-FAA-logbook, if a club checkout I log it as Dual received and PIC, and funnily enough, if flying on my own, log it as PIC.
EA
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Unless receiving the ridiculous "one hours traning flight" required to revalidate then all checkouts must be P1 or you can never "Fail" for the simple reason there can only be one person in command in a single pilot airplane as defined, IE P2 in most SEP`s can NEVER be logged as there isnt a two crew requirement.
P/Ut apart from already said above can only be logged when receiving training that results in a licence or rating being added.
As far as those club checkouts you will soon find out who really is P1 if during the flight something gets broken or someone hurt.
Watch the race to see who gets to the Tippex first for the authorisation shhets.
P/Ut apart from already said above can only be logged when receiving training that results in a licence or rating being added.
As far as those club checkouts you will soon find out who really is P1 if during the flight something gets broken or someone hurt.
Watch the race to see who gets to the Tippex first for the authorisation shhets.
