Saturday: Lessons learned in my 172!
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Saturday: Lessons learned in my 172!
Guys
On Saturday I went up with 2 friends in the 172 (PPL: 10 hrs on type, 50 on Cessnas TT). It was a fantastic clear and calm day. We did a few orbits over the city, headed out to the countryside, low level 350 feet!!! Over some lakes and then back for a touch and go and eventual landing.
The touch and go initially was fine though It balloon, that’s ok, normally they are easy to correct but then it went haywire - the mistake I made (I think) was I didn’t control the rudder properly which turned into a very freaky experience – that is, the pedals going crazy – jumping up and down all by themselves left right left right and I had to bring the plane to a full stop to stop this, it was difficult to apply the brakes as the pedals were jumping up and down all by themselves! Once I got it sorted I applied full power and rolled, at 60 kts I pulled back, the nose lifted then went down again!! I had the trim so far back I could not raise the nose!! Luckily, and not very far from the end (yikes!) the plane lifted itself and we were airborne! It was very freaky indeed.
2 lessons: wash off more speed before flaring/touchdown and main positive pressure on rudder pedals when on the ground i.e. don’t let them move by themselves. I guess I had trimmed out too much aswell - cripes! Luckily my pax didn’t notice how scared I was!! The landing afterwards was uneventful - i.e. great!
Is there anything else I should have done? any other lessons I could have learned?
I love flying, you always walk away from the aircraft with something new learned.
Cheers
On Saturday I went up with 2 friends in the 172 (PPL: 10 hrs on type, 50 on Cessnas TT). It was a fantastic clear and calm day. We did a few orbits over the city, headed out to the countryside, low level 350 feet!!! Over some lakes and then back for a touch and go and eventual landing.
The touch and go initially was fine though It balloon, that’s ok, normally they are easy to correct but then it went haywire - the mistake I made (I think) was I didn’t control the rudder properly which turned into a very freaky experience – that is, the pedals going crazy – jumping up and down all by themselves left right left right and I had to bring the plane to a full stop to stop this, it was difficult to apply the brakes as the pedals were jumping up and down all by themselves! Once I got it sorted I applied full power and rolled, at 60 kts I pulled back, the nose lifted then went down again!! I had the trim so far back I could not raise the nose!! Luckily, and not very far from the end (yikes!) the plane lifted itself and we were airborne! It was very freaky indeed.
2 lessons: wash off more speed before flaring/touchdown and main positive pressure on rudder pedals when on the ground i.e. don’t let them move by themselves. I guess I had trimmed out too much aswell - cripes! Luckily my pax didn’t notice how scared I was!! The landing afterwards was uneventful - i.e. great!
Is there anything else I should have done? any other lessons I could have learned?
I love flying, you always walk away from the aircraft with something new learned.
Cheers
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All credit to you for wanting to share your 'freaky' experience with others. I always reckon, never be too proud to admit mistakes, and that way we can all learn from it .......
Pedals, jumping up and down ? Sounds like it might have been nosewheel shimmy to me....... what speed was that at ? If so, best to keep the weight off the nose and bring the controls back.
Braking would only make it worse.
I wouldn't have thought that overtrimming would prevent your nose from lifting. Sure, it could markedly increase the amount of back pressure you require, but my guess (and it is only a guess) ... (as it has happened to me before) is .... that with a couple of fat blokes in the plane it is better to add an extra few knots before rotation (check your Pilot Operating Handbook for the exact figures) and then be careful not to climb out of ground effect too quickly !
Pedals, jumping up and down ? Sounds like it might have been nosewheel shimmy to me....... what speed was that at ? If so, best to keep the weight off the nose and bring the controls back.
Braking would only make it worse.
I wouldn't have thought that overtrimming would prevent your nose from lifting. Sure, it could markedly increase the amount of back pressure you require, but my guess (and it is only a guess) ... (as it has happened to me before) is .... that with a couple of fat blokes in the plane it is better to add an extra few knots before rotation (check your Pilot Operating Handbook for the exact figures) and then be careful not to climb out of ground effect too quickly !
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Is there anything else I should have done? any other lessons I could have learned?
But I think that you are good at looking back and willing to learn from experience, which is something very good.
FD
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Sounds like you landed too fast and possibly not straght either and hit the nose wheel which may have sent the rudder pedals off.
Most new pilots land way too fast (usually because some instructor has given them a "safe" speed).
Go out with an experienced pilot or instructor and do some slow flying, then do a few landings.
Did you have full flap on and a bit of forward trim when trying to take off?
Under normal situatiions any C172 should fly well before 60 KIAS
Most new pilots land way too fast (usually because some instructor has given them a "safe" speed).
Go out with an experienced pilot or instructor and do some slow flying, then do a few landings.
Did you have full flap on and a bit of forward trim when trying to take off?
Under normal situatiions any C172 should fly well before 60 KIAS
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As others have said:
1) The balloon was caused by approaching and landing too fast - what speed were you doing?
2) The uncontrollable pedals - welcome to nose-wheel 'shimmy' which has occured in every 172 I've flown when it's been too fast on the ground - be it landing or even taxiing. When it happens on landing you've got to get those controls back into your stomach to take the pressure off the nose wheel. Being firm on the pedals is just putting more strain on the nose wheel leg.
Less speed in this case brings more finesse you'll find.
1) The balloon was caused by approaching and landing too fast - what speed were you doing?
2) The uncontrollable pedals - welcome to nose-wheel 'shimmy' which has occured in every 172 I've flown when it's been too fast on the ground - be it landing or even taxiing. When it happens on landing you've got to get those controls back into your stomach to take the pressure off the nose wheel. Being firm on the pedals is just putting more strain on the nose wheel leg.
Less speed in this case brings more finesse you'll find.
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I'm assuming by your nick, that you're flying in Ireland?
If south of the border, then you could add "Never to admit to flying below 500ft" to your list of things to remember.
Again I don't know where you were landing, and hence the length of the runway, but reading your post, the first thing I thought of was same as FNG above.
dp
If south of the border, then you could add "Never to admit to flying below 500ft" to your list of things to remember.
Again I don't know where you were landing, and hence the length of the runway, but reading your post, the first thing I thought of was same as FNG above.
dp
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That thought had occurred to me also, dub.
"I was just checking that the altimeter definitely read 501 feet, Officer. By the time I saw the bridge it was too late, so I had to fly underneath it."
Irishwingz, without wishing to pile it on too much, how high above that city were you orbiting?
"I was just checking that the altimeter definitely read 501 feet, Officer. By the time I saw the bridge it was too late, so I had to fly underneath it."
Irishwingz, without wishing to pile it on too much, how high above that city were you orbiting?
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Guys, Before any more speculation.....I was orbiting over the city at 1500 ft which was given to me by ATC. I was at 350 feet in an authorised low flying area where you can go to 100 feet with no problem. I am in New Zealand by the way - hence the 'Middle Earth'
PH, Dutch, Tony, Chilli, FNG and Dub - Thanks for your comments all. Its been worthwhile learning from your experiences.
In hindsight I should not have attempted to take off again. Yes it was definetly a nose wheel shimmy I had. My approach speed was not outrageously high - I try keeping it around 65kts. In the calm condiions another notch of flap would have been useful too as I had only 20 degrees selected.
Cheers
PH, Dutch, Tony, Chilli, FNG and Dub - Thanks for your comments all. Its been worthwhile learning from your experiences.
In hindsight I should not have attempted to take off again. Yes it was definetly a nose wheel shimmy I had. My approach speed was not outrageously high - I try keeping it around 65kts. In the calm condiions another notch of flap would have been useful too as I had only 20 degrees selected.
Cheers
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I always try to fly the classic ''by the book'' approach.i.e 10 degrees flaps abeam the numbers, 20 degrees on base,roll out 500ft and trim for 65kts[IAS] You have to nail the airspeed on final,aim for threshold.Getting low add power,getting high reduce power.Use flippers [elevators] to maintain airspeed.
Maintain pitch angle to Round-out height.Here is the important point:ROUND OUT and fly STRAIGHT and LEVEL.Look into the middle distance and wait for SINK to set in.When you feel the sink apply back pressure -how much depends on the rate of SINK.
Don't worry about the airspeed-it is dissapating rapidly now.Concentrate on getting the plane in the LANDING ATTITUDE i.e NOSE UP.All this works when wind is blowing directly down the runway.
Maintain pitch angle to Round-out height.Here is the important point:ROUND OUT and fly STRAIGHT and LEVEL.Look into the middle distance and wait for SINK to set in.When you feel the sink apply back pressure -how much depends on the rate of SINK.
Don't worry about the airspeed-it is dissapating rapidly now.Concentrate on getting the plane in the LANDING ATTITUDE i.e NOSE UP.All this works when wind is blowing directly down the runway.
