Please can the uninvited just bu**er off
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I have had several suggestions form people this morning. Some have been useful, some have had me on the floor in stitches.
One chap suggested the hangar roof should read....
PPR or RIP
Pegasus, I can see your point. I am just so nervous of insurance/accidents/law suits etc!
One chap suggested the hangar roof should read....
PPR or RIP
Pegasus, I can see your point. I am just so nervous of insurance/accidents/law suits etc!
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Come on Monocock, mind the blood pressure; provided the Rules of the Air are adhered to, answer the question.
I fully appreciate your sentiments and concerns, but what is in the ANO to support you and prevent pilots from making approaches.
I fully appreciate your sentiments and concerns, but what is in the ANO to support you and prevent pilots from making approaches.
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Come on Monocock, mind the blood pressure; provided the Rules of the Air are adhered to, answer the question.
It is easy to quote the ANO in any situation. Sadly, it is not so easy to convince locals that the increase in activity above and around the strip is not due to a plan to make it into a flying club! If we quoted the ANO in every situation and showed no humanity at all, GA would have been long gone by now.
Can you let us know where your house is so we can come along in our cars at the weekend and practice driving in and out of your driveway? Just as we're nearly in we'll select first gear and drive off at full power. If we then started quoting the Highway Code to back up our behaviour you might get a little frustrated I think.
M
I don't suppose this is retaliation for my comments on an earlier thread regarding the habits of plane-spotters???
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Well sharpshot, if the 500 foot rule isn't breached there is as far as I know nothing to stop it.
Which is perhaps some of the problem - given smart ar*ses who seem to think that putting someone else's strip at risk so they can stroke their own egos is acceptable behaviour.
Like Monocock our strip is not and will not be in any of the guides. The local club and believe it or not even worse, some of the PFA people, are now acutely that if they 'beat up' my strip life will become very unpleasant for them.
That situation has meant peace and acceptance from our neighbours who regard us as interesting and slightly eccentric and always good for sight seeing trips for their visitors.
Why something has to be illegal to make it stop when anyone with a brain in their head should understand it to be stupid, inconsiderate and extremely rude I cannot even begin to understand.
When we first established the strip we had a large number of characters using Sharpshot 'thought processes' and causing real concern from our neighbours. Monocock has my sympathy - I found it was only by being extremely rude to these people and those who owned the aircraft that I could stop it. We got the neighbours to note registrations having told them these people did not have our permission and so should not be using the strip.
It's not easy and it is particularly infuriating that the very people who should understand the issues make a point of not doing so.
Which is perhaps some of the problem - given smart ar*ses who seem to think that putting someone else's strip at risk so they can stroke their own egos is acceptable behaviour.
Like Monocock our strip is not and will not be in any of the guides. The local club and believe it or not even worse, some of the PFA people, are now acutely that if they 'beat up' my strip life will become very unpleasant for them.
That situation has meant peace and acceptance from our neighbours who regard us as interesting and slightly eccentric and always good for sight seeing trips for their visitors.
Why something has to be illegal to make it stop when anyone with a brain in their head should understand it to be stupid, inconsiderate and extremely rude I cannot even begin to understand.
When we first established the strip we had a large number of characters using Sharpshot 'thought processes' and causing real concern from our neighbours. Monocock has my sympathy - I found it was only by being extremely rude to these people and those who owned the aircraft that I could stop it. We got the neighbours to note registrations having told them these people did not have our permission and so should not be using the strip.
It's not easy and it is particularly infuriating that the very people who should understand the issues make a point of not doing so.
Not so N, but still FG
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Well said. Adopting a snidy "I'm within my legal rights to do this" approach (no pun intended) shows a distinct lack of sensitivity to the legitimate interests of other aviators.
Think also of the safety implications of a low approach to a strip in respect of which you have no details. What about local wind effects, cables, trees, etc? OK, these are factors that may impact on PFLs as well, but maybe it's worth mentioning them as an additional reason to think twice about strip-stonking.
Publicising a strip might only make things worse. According to legend, the grumpy bloke who painted "Buzz Off Biggles" on his roof near RAF Valley found that he became a Waypoint. Some people appear to think that "PPR" means "Please Park Right here"
Think also of the safety implications of a low approach to a strip in respect of which you have no details. What about local wind effects, cables, trees, etc? OK, these are factors that may impact on PFLs as well, but maybe it's worth mentioning them as an additional reason to think twice about strip-stonking.
Publicising a strip might only make things worse. According to legend, the grumpy bloke who painted "Buzz Off Biggles" on his roof near RAF Valley found that he became a Waypoint. Some people appear to think that "PPR" means "Please Park Right here"
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Thank you gasax. I have to agree. Are you on the opposite side of the river from Peterculter? Don't worry, some of my antecedents are from up your way.
However, you do not know my thought processes; you are enduring a problem and I am just trying to point out that there is little to support your efforts to restrain certain elements.
I will not be round your strips - give me a licensed airfield anyday - at least I know that the CAA have audited the operator. Only strip I go near is one I drive past and can appreciate the local geography. I have been invited to land but on the odd occasion that I have flown the app, I tell myself to put the power on!
Monocock; how can somebody passing overhead your strip be trespassing? At what ht. a.g.l. do you consider it to be trespass?
I reminded a friend only yesterday about my location and he duly flew by and I photographed the event
(with my minolta as you put it............
However, you do not know my thought processes; you are enduring a problem and I am just trying to point out that there is little to support your efforts to restrain certain elements.
I will not be round your strips - give me a licensed airfield anyday - at least I know that the CAA have audited the operator. Only strip I go near is one I drive past and can appreciate the local geography. I have been invited to land but on the odd occasion that I have flown the app, I tell myself to put the power on!
Monocock; how can somebody passing overhead your strip be trespassing? At what ht. a.g.l. do you consider it to be trespass?
I reminded a friend only yesterday about my location and he duly flew by and I photographed the event
(with my minolta as you put it............
Not so N, but still FG
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Sharpshot, I believe that Monocock's initial complaint related to landing, and that certainly is trespassing if the owner of the strip has not consented to the landing. Following your query above, the thread has broadened somewhat to include consideration of low approaches without landing, where the issue is not trespass, but potential nuisance (not necessarily in a legal sense, but in a practical sense for the owner).
Edit: As for the height above ground at which an aircraft would be trespassing, the answer is: at or below such height as is necessary for the ordinary use and enjoyment of the land and structures upon it (Mr Justice Griffiths so decided in Bernstein v Skyviews 1978). An aircraft flown below a "reasonable height" loses the statutory immunity from actions for treespass and nuisance. Mixing theory with practice, a flight which busts the 500 foot rule might well give rise to a nuisance claim from, for example, the owner of a startled animal.
Edit: As for the height above ground at which an aircraft would be trespassing, the answer is: at or below such height as is necessary for the ordinary use and enjoyment of the land and structures upon it (Mr Justice Griffiths so decided in Bernstein v Skyviews 1978). An aircraft flown below a "reasonable height" loses the statutory immunity from actions for treespass and nuisance. Mixing theory with practice, a flight which busts the 500 foot rule might well give rise to a nuisance claim from, for example, the owner of a startled animal.
Last edited by FNG; 1st Jun 2004 at 11:55.
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My apologies. I read the variation on three miscreants flying approaches. I was unaware that they had landed from them.
Tut, tut. I can only but agree. If there are no published details in a Pilot Guide/Handbook, you have to contact the owner and request permission.
I can't believe people have the audacity to just turn up (but in 2004 - maybe the ignorance)
Tut, tut. I can only but agree. If there are no published details in a Pilot Guide/Handbook, you have to contact the owner and request permission.
I can't believe people have the audacity to just turn up (but in 2004 - maybe the ignorance)
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How about you set up a website giving info on your site. PPR required etc local joining conditions etc etc.
Then have a section for the barstards, take photos and publish them. Along with the G-INFO listing.
Quote the ANO that your not allowed to break the 500ft unless you are landing. And all the other stuff on tresspass etc. landing fee no PPR £50 unless an emergency. If they say they were only doing the approach you can forward any correspondance onto the CAA for a 500ft rule bust, the dim view they take of doing PFL's below 500ft should invite enough correspondance that the owner won't go near you again.
Then make a suitable call for a donation to charity to remove the offending photo.
Name and shame the rude buggers. Suspect that quite quickly all the locals will know not to take the piss andnot bother.
If anyone does have the miss fortune to need to do a FL into it so be it.
I would have my doudts about putting spoilers down aka a police stinger type device. Could get yourself into legal probs with that one.
MJ
Then have a section for the barstards, take photos and publish them. Along with the G-INFO listing.
Quote the ANO that your not allowed to break the 500ft unless you are landing. And all the other stuff on tresspass etc. landing fee no PPR £50 unless an emergency. If they say they were only doing the approach you can forward any correspondance onto the CAA for a 500ft rule bust, the dim view they take of doing PFL's below 500ft should invite enough correspondance that the owner won't go near you again.
Then make a suitable call for a donation to charity to remove the offending photo.
Name and shame the rude buggers. Suspect that quite quickly all the locals will know not to take the piss andnot bother.
If anyone does have the miss fortune to need to do a FL into it so be it.
I would have my doudts about putting spoilers down aka a police stinger type device. Could get yourself into legal probs with that one.
MJ
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I would be slighlty more conservative - what's wrong with the traditional large white cross at each threshold! (assuming yr. strip not in excess of 300m long, in which case you would need more)
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Its funny how low-flying over someone's private strip is now a bad thing, whereas low flying over a beach, motorway, etc is all part of the spiwit and dewwing-do of aviation and aviators.
Some flight schools think it's appropriate to do the emergency practice during the week at glider fields since they are then usually closed. They forget that the noise, etc. involved reflects negatively on the local glider club.
Westy
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As pointed out here the problem is not really of the legal nature but rather a moral one. I operate from a grass strip that belongs to a friend a short distance from my house when the weather is good and he is also incredibly frustrated at the "yahoos" that beat up his strip or land on it without permission.
The problem for him is we have a lot of Nimbys who think it is the based users making the noise and so they push to have the strip closed.
How would the smart arses who fly in feel if there own strip was closed due to the actions of other unthoughtfull people?
Monocock has every right to be peeeeed off.
The problem for him is we have a lot of Nimbys who think it is the based users making the noise and so they push to have the strip closed.
How would the smart arses who fly in feel if there own strip was closed due to the actions of other unthoughtfull people?
Monocock has every right to be peeeeed off.
Not so N, but still FG
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Stonking a strip is not necessarily inherently safer or inherently more dangerous than stonking a beach. It all depends. The majority reaction to the allegations of low flying along the coast were at least partly influenced by the troll-like manner in which the allegations were made. People there made the point that flying in such a manner as to prejudice others against aviation (and, for example, to affect the operations of local strips) would be a bad thing. As bose x said, this isn't primarily about what is legal (nor primarily about what's safe), but is about showing some manners (blimey, that sounds a bit Wykehamist).
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I agree with the sentiments about bad airmanship etc but what to do about it? We have a long but narrow strip that is VERY VERY private. Couple of summers ago 2 unanounced visitors on the same day in low winged airplanes ended up in the standing crop because they were not used to farm strips. Best laugh we had for a long time and word got around that it was too narrow. So try growing maize or something right to the edge. It will deter many.
Whatever you do the best of luck in keeping the unwanted at bay
Whatever you do the best of luck in keeping the unwanted at bay
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Sharpshot,
Good airmanship & manners should give you a clue. How would you like it if YOU had fought a long & hard battle for the right to fly from your own piece of grass, only for some ar$e to come along and undo all that hard graft? Remember, if somebody flies over any private strip, the local complainers assume that it's the owner flying!
Maybe we could all come round unannounced one night and sit on YOUR sofa, watch YOUR TV, give YOUR wife 'a leetle snog' and drink YOUR beer?
Just being Devils advocate, you understand....
how can somebody passing overhead your strip be trespassing? At what ht. a.g.l. do you consider it to be trespass?
Maybe we could all come round unannounced one night and sit on YOUR sofa, watch YOUR TV, give YOUR wife 'a leetle snog' and drink YOUR beer?
Just being Devils advocate, you understand....