Flying the "Tin Parachute"
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Flying the "Tin Parachute"
I was just completing the annual inspection on our 1967 Rallye 100, this reminded me of how well they were built. (apart from the bits that "rust")
I think they are a much better training aircraft than the Cessna & Piper, and have been surprised that the PZL Kolober (Rallye) has not sold in greater numbers.
I just enjoy flying them so much, compared to, say a C150, The Rallye has the best STOL performance for a 100 hp, a genuine 22 knot crosswind limit (and it will do better than that when required) and a stall at about 40 mph
It will only fly at 100 mph but you do have a "stick" and you do get the best view going, and two large people have plenty of room.
You can still pick up a good one for about £10 -12 K
Out of about 50 type logged I still think its the best fun aircraft for the money, if you have never flown one, have a go.
Tony
I think they are a much better training aircraft than the Cessna & Piper, and have been surprised that the PZL Kolober (Rallye) has not sold in greater numbers.
I just enjoy flying them so much, compared to, say a C150, The Rallye has the best STOL performance for a 100 hp, a genuine 22 knot crosswind limit (and it will do better than that when required) and a stall at about 40 mph
It will only fly at 100 mph but you do have a "stick" and you do get the best view going, and two large people have plenty of room.
You can still pick up a good one for about £10 -12 K
Out of about 50 type logged I still think its the best fun aircraft for the money, if you have never flown one, have a go.
Tony
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I did a lot of hour building after I got my PPL in the dear old Rallye 880. Great machine and some fond memories before it got sold and moved to Ireland - instruments scattered al over the panel and a great big knob to pull to start the engine.
The one time (so far) I really screwed up a go around it somehow kept flying at a ridiculously low speed to get me out of trouble. But how many other training aircraft have got leading edge slats?
This was after we had flown to Coventry in an hour and took two and a quarter to get back because of the headwind! Forty knots ground speed on the GPS - hence the hour building.
Now most of my flying is in a Bulldog. Stick, bubble canopy (with an even better view), but a lot more grunt.
If you move on from a Rallye, get a Bulldog -
classic aeroplanes with character.
RD
The one time (so far) I really screwed up a go around it somehow kept flying at a ridiculously low speed to get me out of trouble. But how many other training aircraft have got leading edge slats?
This was after we had flown to Coventry in an hour and took two and a quarter to get back because of the headwind! Forty knots ground speed on the GPS - hence the hour building.
Now most of my flying is in a Bulldog. Stick, bubble canopy (with an even better view), but a lot more grunt.
If you move on from a Rallye, get a Bulldog -
classic aeroplanes with character.
RD
Join Date: Jan 2003
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I fly a Koliber, hence the pprune name and think the Rallye/Koilber are great aircraft, but I'm obviously biased.
As a trainer, they are probably too benign and easy to fly. They don't want to stall, even with flaps down, the throttle closed and the stallwarner blaring, they just sink down - hence the name 'Tin Parachute'
The view out is wonderful and because the canopy slides right back, access to all four seats is easy.
IMHO, it beats a a C150 and PA-28 hands down.
As a trainer, they are probably too benign and easy to fly. They don't want to stall, even with flaps down, the throttle closed and the stallwarner blaring, they just sink down - hence the name 'Tin Parachute'
The view out is wonderful and because the canopy slides right back, access to all four seats is easy.
IMHO, it beats a a C150 and PA-28 hands down.
to sail beyond the sunset
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Did a few hours in a Rallye.
Lot of fun, only problem was carb heat and mixture, identical knobs each side of the throttle.
Caused an embarrassing silence once or twice on downwind leg by pulling the wrong one.
Lot of fun, only problem was carb heat and mixture, identical knobs each side of the throttle.
Caused an embarrassing silence once or twice on downwind leg by pulling the wrong one.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Happy with Rallye
I have about 140 hours in our syndicate's MS880B.
Lovely to fly (stick) great view, super short field performance.
Was excellent for hours building on the CPL. Mainly because it is so slow !. (Cruise at 80 knots, full throttle and some leaning can see 95 though). Also cheap - £ 14 K to buy and about £ 25 - £ 30 hour for fuel - 5 gph - half what a Warrior drinks.
If I could change anything it would be for a few more horses. You can land almost anywhere, but with 100 HP you might not take off again !. Also it's got four seats, but the wife and I will both have to diet if we want to take the kids with us.
I'd like to try visiting Lundy island. But at 400m I'm not sure I'd do it, even one up !.
D129
Lovely to fly (stick) great view, super short field performance.
Was excellent for hours building on the CPL. Mainly because it is so slow !. (Cruise at 80 knots, full throttle and some leaning can see 95 though). Also cheap - £ 14 K to buy and about £ 25 - £ 30 hour for fuel - 5 gph - half what a Warrior drinks.
If I could change anything it would be for a few more horses. You can land almost anywhere, but with 100 HP you might not take off again !. Also it's got four seats, but the wife and I will both have to diet if we want to take the kids with us.
I'd like to try visiting Lundy island. But at 400m I'm not sure I'd do it, even one up !.
D129
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Great fun, as long as you're not in a hurry. I fly a 150hp version sometimes, which will go just about anywhere. I wouldn't recommend it as a general rule, but have found that takeoffs from marginal strips can be rescued by a timely application of full flap and a good pull on the stick.
D129 - even on 100hp, I can't imagine that you'd have any trouble from a 400m strip provided you weren't overloaded.
D129 - even on 100hp, I can't imagine that you'd have any trouble from a 400m strip provided you weren't overloaded.
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D129,
I operate from home out of 345M but I usually fly alone out as there is one approach or climbout over some large trees. but 400M is no prob even with 2.
I always take off with FULL flap.
Tony
I operate from home out of 345M but I usually fly alone out as there is one approach or climbout over some large trees. but 400M is no prob even with 2.
I always take off with FULL flap.
Tony
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Yes dropping the flaps during the take off roll had a dramatic effect on the old MS 880. Great fun. But it was really too easy to fly to be a good trainer. Like a mini fighter but with WW1 speeds.
I remember flying them three up several times. I could barely get above 2000 feet. While landing if you got too enthusiastic when you flared you could scrape the tail very easily. On finals too the drill was to jerk the stick to get the slats out together.
I was involved in several hooligan stunts as a young fool pilot with the Rallye100 but it kept me safe.
I like to buy one for myself just for a fun flying go anywhere bird.
I remember flying them three up several times. I could barely get above 2000 feet. While landing if you got too enthusiastic when you flared you could scrape the tail very easily. On finals too the drill was to jerk the stick to get the slats out together.
I was involved in several hooligan stunts as a young fool pilot with the Rallye100 but it kept me safe.
I like to buy one for myself just for a fun flying go anywhere bird.
I had a share in one many years ago. A very under-rated aeroplane. Ours was an ST - aerobatic as well! People may scoff, but it was better at aeros than the so called Cessena 'Aerobat'.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Tony / Aerobatic,
Thanks for the posts. I'll experiment with the flaps on the take off roll.
I can say that with a 20 - 25 knot wind straight down the runway I was airborne at Oxford (01) before the numbers. (70 M perhaps).
The climb rate when heavy is interesting during thermic weather - over 1,000 fpm as you go through the thermal and less than 200 fpm as you find the sinking air ... takes me back to my days in a K6 ... although I haven't tried thermalling a Rallye, I do slow down in rising air to take the climb !.
Cheers,
D129
Thanks for the posts. I'll experiment with the flaps on the take off roll.
I can say that with a 20 - 25 knot wind straight down the runway I was airborne at Oxford (01) before the numbers. (70 M perhaps).
The climb rate when heavy is interesting during thermic weather - over 1,000 fpm as you go through the thermal and less than 200 fpm as you find the sinking air ... takes me back to my days in a K6 ... although I haven't tried thermalling a Rallye, I do slow down in rising air to take the climb !.
Cheers,
D129
Flyin Dutch sorry to be pedantic (I'm not really 
) but not all Tigers have leading edge slats. I know of one that was deliberately rebuilt without them.
) but not all Tigers have leading edge slats. I know of one that was deliberately rebuilt without them.
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I learned to fly on an MS880B. An amazing machine; it's a pity it was so slow in the cruise. Very prone to carb icing, this one was. But it had a failsafe fuel gauge - a sight tube in the cowlside.
It's now long gone to the great hangar in the sky, but it was a fun machine and I miss it.
It's now long gone to the great hangar in the sky, but it was a fun machine and I miss it.
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Ahhh MS880's. The first aeroplane I purchased (and the only one) was built in 1964 and had the builders number 64 (I think). I bought her from a Frenchman who worked for BN on the IOW. He had an ASI, altimeter and a ball and slip and a battery alarm clock taped to the top of the panel. He did have a Hamilton compass. That was it . He used to commute back and forth to France in it and occasionally (rumour had it) at night!
She was re-registered G-BKUT and I had the panel rebuilt with a standard "T" plus a VOR and an ADF.
Then I left the UK and went to live overseas (where I still am) and I had to sell her.
I heard later that there had been a landing accident and I have since discovered that she was removed from the register. I presume a write-off. Very sad.
God, I loved that aeroplane. D129 and Aerobatic Flyer. Yes, drop full flap at about 45 knots and the aircraft went up like an express lift. But you had to be quick about getting the nose down, reducing flap and getting the airspeed back up as soon as possible after that.
We always called her a 'tin parasol'. Best wishes to all who still fly this wonderful aeroplane.
She was re-registered G-BKUT and I had the panel rebuilt with a standard "T" plus a VOR and an ADF.
Then I left the UK and went to live overseas (where I still am) and I had to sell her.
I heard later that there had been a landing accident and I have since discovered that she was removed from the register. I presume a write-off. Very sad.
God, I loved that aeroplane. D129 and Aerobatic Flyer. Yes, drop full flap at about 45 knots and the aircraft went up like an express lift. But you had to be quick about getting the nose down, reducing flap and getting the airspeed back up as soon as possible after that.
We always called her a 'tin parasol'. Best wishes to all who still fly this wonderful aeroplane.
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My father states that at a Biggin Airshow in the 60's a Rallye took off across the runway as part of the display... not that I disbelieve him as I've seen some shortish T/O's but would love to have seen it. Can anyone confirm this or even have a picture of it??
OAW
OAW
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Best I've achieved is TO ground run of 20M with about 30 knots headwind.
I used to anoy the ATC at Donegal with my vertical circuits, ie. Wind at about 30 knots, down the runway, TO and climb at VX,. by about 500 ft you are flying backwards, decend and land having never turned.
I used to anoy the ATC at Donegal with my vertical circuits, ie. Wind at about 30 knots, down the runway, TO and climb at VX,. by about 500 ft you are flying backwards, decend and land having never turned.
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My senile memory may be letting me down, but was it not a Rallye that was advertised many years ago flying into a cave somewhere (in France?), landing, turning 'round and taking off again. I believe the biggest problem was a bit like the tunnel in the Monaco GP, rapid light/dark/light changes.
I also remember hearing some moons ago of a Rallye that was supposed to have landed across the runway at Enstone, but this may be hearsay.
TJ
I also remember hearing some moons ago of a Rallye that was supposed to have landed across the runway at Enstone, but this may be hearsay.
TJ
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Keef,
One of the good features of the Koliber is a carb temperature gauge, we always know exactly when to apply the heeat. Also, the tacho is green-arced right down to idle, so in practice we rarely need it anyway.
One of the good features of the Koliber is a carb temperature gauge, we always know exactly when to apply the heeat. Also, the tacho is green-arced right down to idle, so in practice we rarely need it anyway.