Barton Closing??
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: UK
Barton Closing??
Rumours are afoot that Peel holdings are not renewing Lancashire Aeroclubs lease at Barton when it comes up for renewal in March 2005. This surely cannot happen!! the oldest working control tower in the world (i am told) being closed down, very sad indeed if this is in fact the case. Can anyone shed any light on this subject??
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 333
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From: By the big Teapot
Dewdrop.
You're right about the racecourse development. There was a plan to put a GA field on it at one time, but I notice that didn't feature in the news item I saw about it. The site for the racing isn't on the Barton airfield site though. I think the locals were rather concerned by the last lot of plans to 'improve' Barton because the buildings proposed didn't seem to fit in with what Barton is/does, and a 'hidden agenda' was suspected. It must be a real pain for anyone at Barton at the moment because these rumours seem to surface about every few months! Goodness knows the availability of GA facilities in the NW is bad enough as it is without the chance that Barton could close! I do hope this is another groundless rumour.
Spiney
You're right about the racecourse development. There was a plan to put a GA field on it at one time, but I notice that didn't feature in the news item I saw about it. The site for the racing isn't on the Barton airfield site though. I think the locals were rather concerned by the last lot of plans to 'improve' Barton because the buildings proposed didn't seem to fit in with what Barton is/does, and a 'hidden agenda' was suspected. It must be a real pain for anyone at Barton at the moment because these rumours seem to surface about every few months! Goodness knows the availability of GA facilities in the NW is bad enough as it is without the chance that Barton could close! I do hope this is another groundless rumour.
Spiney
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Yes a notice was served on the club recently by Peel under Section 25 of the Landlords and Tennants Act.
The lease extant expires next March and negotiations had stalled.
Peel submitted plans to Salford a month ago for new hangars and buildings that demolished the Aero Clubs facilities in part
The distinction here is the future of Barton Aerodrome or the Lancashire Aero Club. It appears that Peel are committed to the former but not the latter.
(Thinks) Could the LAC having been linked to listing all the buildings on the site have in someway slightly annoyed the ground landlords?
The committee seem to have dropped a clanger by trying to keep the notice quiet until after membership renewal in April as they feared a mass exodus robbing the club of valuble income.
Treating anyone as less intelligent than they are always back fires as history shows.
I think the future for Barton is actually bright but only if users can meet the commercial charges likely to arise as a consequence of Peels investments. The cosy days of past grass roots aviating may be numbered at this location, but not necessarily in the northwest bearing in mind the tenacity and determination of the LAC membership.
Be intereting to hear from any new Sheffield (Sherriff of Nottingham / Maid Marion Int'l) Airport residents.
Sir George Cayley
The lease extant expires next March and negotiations had stalled.
Peel submitted plans to Salford a month ago for new hangars and buildings that demolished the Aero Clubs facilities in part
The distinction here is the future of Barton Aerodrome or the Lancashire Aero Club. It appears that Peel are committed to the former but not the latter.
(Thinks) Could the LAC having been linked to listing all the buildings on the site have in someway slightly annoyed the ground landlords?
The committee seem to have dropped a clanger by trying to keep the notice quiet until after membership renewal in April as they feared a mass exodus robbing the club of valuble income.
Treating anyone as less intelligent than they are always back fires as history shows.
I think the future for Barton is actually bright but only if users can meet the commercial charges likely to arise as a consequence of Peels investments. The cosy days of past grass roots aviating may be numbered at this location, but not necessarily in the northwest bearing in mind the tenacity and determination of the LAC membership.
Be intereting to hear from any new Sheffield (Sherriff of Nottingham / Maid Marion Int'l) Airport residents.
Sir George Cayley
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Northern England
Oh no.
I'm doing my PPL here, and renewed my membership last week
If the club is having the lease ended though perhaps they will still be able to stay, but just not running the airport, like the flying schools do at Liverpool ? Peel wouldnt want to build a hangar if they didnt want the planes to stay
I'm doing my PPL here, and renewed my membership last week
If the club is having the lease ended though perhaps they will still be able to stay, but just not running the airport, like the flying schools do at Liverpool ? Peel wouldnt want to build a hangar if they didnt want the planes to stay
Happy Flying!
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Northern England
Hi again
I got a Lancashire Aero Club magazine today and in it was a letter from the club charirman which explains all this. He says that "a meeting was held with Manchester Ship Canal Developments (they seem to be part of Peel Holdings) and that they emphasised the following :
1. Barton Aerodromes future as an airport os secure
2. Peel Airports Limited is committed to investing in the development and improvement of the airport as an airport
3. Whislt any renewal of the existing lease is incositent with 2 above, it is important that Lancashire Aero Club and Light Planes Lancashire Limited conyinue an involvement at Barton Aerodrome
4. To that ens, we have both agreed to give consideration to ways that this might be achieved to our mutual satisfaction
5. The buildings shown on the existing planning application will be stage 1 of a series of investments that PAL has resolved to make at the airport. The content of further phases shall be the subject of discussions with all concerned.
The Club has received formal notice that Manchester Ship Canal Developments will 'oppose' the currect lease renewal, but the club are talking to solicitors about getting a robust lease with secures the Club's future at Barton"
So I think this means that Peel will run Barton themselves but the Club will still stay on the airport
I got a Lancashire Aero Club magazine today and in it was a letter from the club charirman which explains all this. He says that "a meeting was held with Manchester Ship Canal Developments (they seem to be part of Peel Holdings) and that they emphasised the following :
1. Barton Aerodromes future as an airport os secure
2. Peel Airports Limited is committed to investing in the development and improvement of the airport as an airport
3. Whislt any renewal of the existing lease is incositent with 2 above, it is important that Lancashire Aero Club and Light Planes Lancashire Limited conyinue an involvement at Barton Aerodrome
4. To that ens, we have both agreed to give consideration to ways that this might be achieved to our mutual satisfaction
5. The buildings shown on the existing planning application will be stage 1 of a series of investments that PAL has resolved to make at the airport. The content of further phases shall be the subject of discussions with all concerned.
The Club has received formal notice that Manchester Ship Canal Developments will 'oppose' the currect lease renewal, but the club are talking to solicitors about getting a robust lease with secures the Club's future at Barton"
So I think this means that Peel will run Barton themselves but the Club will still stay on the airport
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Any chance of a precis and who wrote it FNG?
In view of the lead time for periodicals this might be an initial reaction at the time.
Jodel Hugger has it right. The airfield (and hence flying) seems well starred for the future but not the Aero Clubs monopoly nor "cheap" flying.
Sir George Cayley
In view of the lead time for periodicals this might be an initial reaction at the time.
Jodel Hugger has it right. The airfield (and hence flying) seems well starred for the future but not the Aero Clubs monopoly nor "cheap" flying.
Sir George Cayley
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: UK
I agree with Jodel Hugger and Sir George. But as well as probably much higher charges, I wonder if Peel will wish to reduce the number of based aircraft, especially in view of their planning application which calls for demolition of one of LAC's hangars?
SSD
SSD
Joined: May 2003
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From: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
I don't know Barton, but it is not at all unusual for the landlord to serve a notice under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1954 when negotiations stall. The club will have to serve a counter notice and then apply to the court for a new tenancy. They have to do this because the time limits for doing things uner the Act are strict and cannot be extended. Most parties in most cases however manage to agree new terms and these things rarely get to court.
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
Sir George, I assume that the letter was from a disgruntled member or local flyer. The letter was short, and consisted of a general rant, "Peel are horrid" etc. As you say, it may have been written some time ago.
By the way, has your Coachman recovered yet?
By the way, has your Coachman recovered yet?
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: England
will there be any point renewing with the aeroclub next march if flying is still taking place anyway?! If its just and aerodrome there will be no point in joining the club as landing fees will be paid to peel anyway to keep up rents etc. The club will probably be near the swap in a portacabin while the peels sit in their golden thrones at the base of the tower enjoying the money that LAC could have made before this happened :'(
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
Every reason to rally around the club. As justiciar suggested, there may be a continuing negotiation, with nothing yet determined, but the club needs members and subscriptions in order to stay in the negotiation.
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From: Northern England
Hi
Why would Peel want to reduce the number of based aircraft? Peel are replacing what is basically a worn out corregated iron hangar with a brand new, bigger one. Sure they might charge more, but you dont get something for nothing!
Too many people at Barton seem to be hanging on to the concept of 'grass roots' flying - is this really compatiable with what is the 5th busiest airfield in the UK? I hope Peel will continue to bring investment which LAC members can benefit from - I'd gladly pay more for a first class airfield with hard runway, nav aids etc
Why would Peel want to reduce the number of based aircraft? Peel are replacing what is basically a worn out corregated iron hangar with a brand new, bigger one. Sure they might charge more, but you dont get something for nothing!
Too many people at Barton seem to be hanging on to the concept of 'grass roots' flying - is this really compatiable with what is the 5th busiest airfield in the UK? I hope Peel will continue to bring investment which LAC members can benefit from - I'd gladly pay more for a first class airfield with hard runway, nav aids etc
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: Burgess Hill, UK
It may be the case that the old hangar will be replaced with a new one. But the current residents of the old hangar, might also be perfectly happy with what they have got, particularly at the price they pay for hangarage. Why not build a hangar on some of the land currently used for non aviation business, or on some of the unused land, rather than knock down a perfectly good one that gives cheap hangarage.
And Jodel Hugger, whats wrong with grass roots flying and flying for fun. We dont all want to fly around with our heads in the cockpit looking at instruments, being told where to go by ATC and landing on tarmac. If you want that then why not fly off to Liverpool when doing your lessons. Im sure you will get a lot of circuits done when trying to fit in with the other aircraft there
Im not based at Barton, only visit there occasionally, but it always seemed a really friendly place with lots going on, lots of interesting aircraft and a good place to fly for fun.
If Peel holdings want to continue to make it a fun place to fly, but with improvements and not a lot of extra cost, then great.
But if they want to put up big hangars to attract expensive aircraft and charge expensive hangarage, then no thanks. Next thing will be hard runways and no landing on the grass and full ATC only allowing 4 aircraft in the circuit at once!!
good luck Barton!
And Jodel Hugger, whats wrong with grass roots flying and flying for fun. We dont all want to fly around with our heads in the cockpit looking at instruments, being told where to go by ATC and landing on tarmac. If you want that then why not fly off to Liverpool when doing your lessons. Im sure you will get a lot of circuits done when trying to fit in with the other aircraft there
Im not based at Barton, only visit there occasionally, but it always seemed a really friendly place with lots going on, lots of interesting aircraft and a good place to fly for fun.
If Peel holdings want to continue to make it a fun place to fly, but with improvements and not a lot of extra cost, then great.
But if they want to put up big hangars to attract expensive aircraft and charge expensive hangarage, then no thanks. Next thing will be hard runways and no landing on the grass and full ATC only allowing 4 aircraft in the circuit at once!!
good luck Barton!
