Barton Closing??
Guest
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FNG
Dont talk to me about Coachmen!
Talk about prima donnas. History potrays him as the injured party but in fact he wanted flying pay, transport to hotels and expenses!
I refused - offered abitration but he would hear nothing of it.
I self fly now despite my age.
Sir George Cayley
ps Barton IS the home of grass roots aviation in the north west. Without it there would effectively be nothing
Talk about prima donnas. History potrays him as the injured party but in fact he wanted flying pay, transport to hotels and expenses!
I refused - offered abitration but he would hear nothing of it.
I self fly now despite my age.
Sir George Cayley
ps Barton IS the home of grass roots aviation in the north west. Without it there would effectively be nothing
Guest
Posts: n/a
Heard on Radio 4 this morning that Peel Holdings are effectively holding a Pig Farmer to ransom who is in the vicinity of Robin Hood Airport (apparantly, Robin was a Yorkshire lad). The reason: his farm attracts too many birds. The chap from the CAA said that it would be rediculous for Peel to remain intransigent over the issue (which they are) whilst the farmer wishes to negotiate (which he does). Not suprising really as apparently, on the grounds of aviation safety, Peel can get a peice of paper to turf the farmer off of his land. Not sure what compensation will be available, if any.
Not sure I like this state of affairs, maybe the birds offer a risk to the traffic, but surely Peel and the farmer both have a duty and must both do what they can rather than just drive folk off their soil (rented or not).
Not sure I like this state of affairs, maybe the birds offer a risk to the traffic, but surely Peel and the farmer both have a duty and must both do what they can rather than just drive folk off their soil (rented or not).
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: UK
The planning application for a new hangar and administration office
block has just been approved by the Salford City Planning Authority. This
means that the hangar nearest the Tower will be demolished, together
with the clubhouse. No date for this has been set.
Peel through their joint shareholders, the Manchester City Council, have
issued a Notice 25 stating that the LAC lease will not be renewed when
it expires on 25th March 2005.
LAC has spent £30,000 in legal fees with expensive London solicitors. If
LAC wishes to continue any court case it is stated that this would cost
a minimum £150,000. Should costs be awarded against the LAC then they
would be responsible for paying up to 80% of Peel's costs. Which suggests
that the total bill could amount to £350,000-£500,000.
And for what? Even if LAC won a favourable decision, Peel would still control
the airfield and facilities. Legal action against their Landlords is
therefore a no-win situation and LAC is not going to take legal action
of this magnitude.
The new hangar and admin building is reported to be costing £3 million.
New buildings and new facilities cost money, and these will have to be
paid for in higher charges by the users. It will become a question of
how much you can afford whether you stay or leave for pastures new. As
to pastures new, there is not a lot of choice, and equally the costs
involved at say Blackpool or Liverpool will be no different to those
expected to be imposed under the new management at Barton.
The statutory redundancy notices as required by law are to be issued to
the 50+ staff in December.
block has just been approved by the Salford City Planning Authority. This
means that the hangar nearest the Tower will be demolished, together
with the clubhouse. No date for this has been set.
Peel through their joint shareholders, the Manchester City Council, have
issued a Notice 25 stating that the LAC lease will not be renewed when
it expires on 25th March 2005.
LAC has spent £30,000 in legal fees with expensive London solicitors. If
LAC wishes to continue any court case it is stated that this would cost
a minimum £150,000. Should costs be awarded against the LAC then they
would be responsible for paying up to 80% of Peel's costs. Which suggests
that the total bill could amount to £350,000-£500,000.
And for what? Even if LAC won a favourable decision, Peel would still control
the airfield and facilities. Legal action against their Landlords is
therefore a no-win situation and LAC is not going to take legal action
of this magnitude.
The new hangar and admin building is reported to be costing £3 million.
New buildings and new facilities cost money, and these will have to be
paid for in higher charges by the users. It will become a question of
how much you can afford whether you stay or leave for pastures new. As
to pastures new, there is not a lot of choice, and equally the costs
involved at say Blackpool or Liverpool will be no different to those
expected to be imposed under the new management at Barton.
The statutory redundancy notices as required by law are to be issued to
the 50+ staff in December.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
From: UK
As a complete outsider, I ask the knowledgeble folk, what could Peel replace Barton with (presumably housing or industrial units), and, given the fact if that is so, they would be be closing the only G/A facility within at least 30 miles radius, this is a matter of immense importance.
Perhaps not.
Perhaps not.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: Gone.........for good this time.
I don't think property developers really give a stuff about closing an airfield. To them, its a large level field, mostly well drained and ideal for 10,000 houses.......just think of the potential revenue! A field with some aeroplanes just doesn't compare
Just look at West Malling, Burnaston, Ipswich......the list goes on! To this list you might also add Rochester and North Weald in maybe 15 years time.
A sad state of affairs, and one which our Government doesn't really give a stuff about either. As politicians seem to graduate mostly from local Councils, is this any wonder?
Just look at West Malling, Burnaston, Ipswich......the list goes on! To this list you might also add Rochester and North Weald in maybe 15 years time.
A sad state of affairs, and one which our Government doesn't really give a stuff about either. As politicians seem to graduate mostly from local Councils, is this any wonder?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lets peel back the Peel Holdings layers...
........and reveal the nature of the beast with whom LAC @ Barton are dealing.
Under the umberella Holdings Company are a number of operations.
The Trafforrd Centre Shopping Megaplex is the public's most visible incarnation of Robert Hough's empire. But there's more to them than that.
The Manchester Ship Canal Company was bought to give accesss to the land surrounding. Salford Quays and the like. They've just bought Clyde Port the Glasgow equivalent.
Many people in the north live in a Peel Homes Tudorbeathan box on an estate. A lot of ex coal industry land went their way in the '80s.
Then there's Peel Aviation. Now how they got the idea of buying airports up to release unused development land I don't know. And how it was they then saw a business case to continue operating the airport would make fascinating reading.
But that's what they did,starting at Liverpool, and continue so to do.
Finningley isn't just about a Yorkshire regional gateway airport. Just look at the freight interchanges nearby. Docks at Immingham, car distribution and freight consolidation using the excellent motorway links.
Peel intend the same with Teeside (MME) renamed last week Durham Tees Valley. The development plan shows a huge area set aside for commercial development whilst retaining the airport. Just like they did at Speke.
The runway at Sheffield City is to be shortened to 650m making it effectively a helicopter FATO whilst the other bit is going to be Industrial Units.
So if I tell you Barton is not going to shut down as an aerodrome can you see where that notion comes from? Given that Peel thru the Ship Canal Co own all the land around, their planners are painting with a much broader brush. From the Leisure park and race course to the north at Boothstown, to the rail head interchange and the Salford Reds Stadium on the banks of the canal just south of Barton, Peel have it sown up.
You dont apply for a million pound hangar on an airfield that's about to close do you?
Barton will survive. The Lancs Aero Club will survive. It's just that their two futures are now not inextricably linked. There is already a steady trickle of a/c leaving or up for sale but these owners may have been too quick to bail.
Yes, it will cost more but Barton has had historically low charges for the private owner. What has already been lost is the intangible atmosphere unique to the place. (And I don't mean the Daveyhulme sewerage works!)
Sir George Cayley
Under the umberella Holdings Company are a number of operations.
The Trafforrd Centre Shopping Megaplex is the public's most visible incarnation of Robert Hough's empire. But there's more to them than that.
The Manchester Ship Canal Company was bought to give accesss to the land surrounding. Salford Quays and the like. They've just bought Clyde Port the Glasgow equivalent.
Many people in the north live in a Peel Homes Tudorbeathan box on an estate. A lot of ex coal industry land went their way in the '80s.
Then there's Peel Aviation. Now how they got the idea of buying airports up to release unused development land I don't know. And how it was they then saw a business case to continue operating the airport would make fascinating reading.
But that's what they did,starting at Liverpool, and continue so to do.
Finningley isn't just about a Yorkshire regional gateway airport. Just look at the freight interchanges nearby. Docks at Immingham, car distribution and freight consolidation using the excellent motorway links.
Peel intend the same with Teeside (MME) renamed last week Durham Tees Valley. The development plan shows a huge area set aside for commercial development whilst retaining the airport. Just like they did at Speke.
The runway at Sheffield City is to be shortened to 650m making it effectively a helicopter FATO whilst the other bit is going to be Industrial Units.
So if I tell you Barton is not going to shut down as an aerodrome can you see where that notion comes from? Given that Peel thru the Ship Canal Co own all the land around, their planners are painting with a much broader brush. From the Leisure park and race course to the north at Boothstown, to the rail head interchange and the Salford Reds Stadium on the banks of the canal just south of Barton, Peel have it sown up.
You dont apply for a million pound hangar on an airfield that's about to close do you?
Barton will survive. The Lancs Aero Club will survive. It's just that their two futures are now not inextricably linked. There is already a steady trickle of a/c leaving or up for sale but these owners may have been too quick to bail.
Yes, it will cost more but Barton has had historically low charges for the private owner. What has already been lost is the intangible atmosphere unique to the place. (And I don't mean the Daveyhulme sewerage works!)
Sir George Cayley
Last edited by Sir George Cayley; 12th September 2004 at 16:25.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 492
Likes: 1
From: Manchester, UK
The statutory redundancy notices as required by law are to be issued to the 50+ staff in December.
1. 50+ staff don't work in the clubhouse and/or the hangar.
2. The majority of the staff work in the Engineering facility, Flight School, fuel pumps and airfield grounds.
3. Nothing that Peel are doing wrt the Planning Permission directly affects Flight School, ground or engineering operations.
The email containing this quote infers that LAC are set to shut up shop. lock stock and barrel. I don't see any evidence of that in LAC's information releases (or indeed in annoucements from Peel or the Council).
It WILL be interesting to see what happens to the (mainly PFA-type) aircraft in the Harbit hangar. Or indeed to the residents of No.2 hangar, who will, at the very least be rather inconvenienced by all that demolition and building work.
Then there's the clubhouse. In the past when refurbs were carried out on the clubhouse, business was transferred to portakabins, and I'm sure this could be achieved once more, with no significant loss of staff positions, given some decent planning and organisation.
But if I were Peel, I'd be thinking how I could get money out of them for as long as possible until my new erections were erected & my new facilities were in place..... and then I'd be thinking how can I maximise income from them ASAP...
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 143
Likes: 1
From: East Yorkshire
Re: Sheffield.
Not sure if this is true or not, but when PH's bought the land that Sheffield sits on, they wanted to build a rather large shopping centre, just like Meadow Hall next door. However the council turned them down and said something along the lines of, "the only way you can develop that land is if you build an airport"
PH are in for the duration, so they build an airport as the council ask, but with every intention of eventually shutting it down and building what they wanted in the first place.
In the meantime, they buy Finningley and name it Doncaster-Sheffield (as they are advertising on the local radio atm).
So why would PH have two airports with the name "Sheffield" in them?
It would be of no supprise at all to me in the next few years if Sheffield airport becomes uneconomically viable and gets closed down altogether. They are for all intent and purposes, working on making it that way. As the land is now developed, they re-apply for planning and build something else. (like a shopping centre)
To me it's just one of those things. When a City Council take on the likes of PH, in most cases there will only ever be one winner. While it will be a loss of a GA facility, if the above is true, then it only ever was temporary anyway.
Then you hear of people putting their houses up for sale around Finningley and guess who's buying them?
These are all things I've heard so could be complete twoddle
Not sure if this is true or not, but when PH's bought the land that Sheffield sits on, they wanted to build a rather large shopping centre, just like Meadow Hall next door. However the council turned them down and said something along the lines of, "the only way you can develop that land is if you build an airport"
PH are in for the duration, so they build an airport as the council ask, but with every intention of eventually shutting it down and building what they wanted in the first place.
In the meantime, they buy Finningley and name it Doncaster-Sheffield (as they are advertising on the local radio atm).
So why would PH have two airports with the name "Sheffield" in them?
It would be of no supprise at all to me in the next few years if Sheffield airport becomes uneconomically viable and gets closed down altogether. They are for all intent and purposes, working on making it that way. As the land is now developed, they re-apply for planning and build something else. (like a shopping centre)
To me it's just one of those things. When a City Council take on the likes of PH, in most cases there will only ever be one winner. While it will be a loss of a GA facility, if the above is true, then it only ever was temporary anyway.
Then you hear of people putting their houses up for sale around Finningley and guess who's buying them?
These are all things I've heard so could be complete twoddle
