When you almost became... "Another Statistic"
Join Date: Sep 2003
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"I looked alot more stupid doing the after-start checks (lowering flap, asking groundcrew to check pitot heat etc.) before starting the engine!"
After start check? you what?? ... you don't honestly do these checks after you start the engine do you?
SS
After start check? you what?? ... you don't honestly do these checks after you start the engine do you?
SS
Join Date: Jul 2000
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You do if you are a University Air Squadron student being taught by the Royal Air Force. The training is intended to equip the student with the ingrained habits which will make him or her a fit and safe operator of a fully equipped, heavily armed, supersonic aircraft. The groundcrew / start up crew is a fully integrated part of the team which gets that aircraft away safe,( until it is required to be dangerous), and serviceable. Many of the effects of operating controls are not visible from inside the aircraft so the pilot relies on the groundcrew to check that such controls are functioning correctly.
Don't criticise it SS, it's you who are out of step.
Mike W
Don't criticise it SS, it's you who are out of step.
Mike W
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Not a critism .. just a question. I'd never heard of doing these checks after start up but failed to think Military, sorry. It would be slightly impractical and possibly quite dangerous in the normal club type situation to do these things with an engine running.
SS
SS
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Nonchalantly approaching my homebuilt into my home strip in a full sideslip at idle. It's a very draggy plane anyway, but I was very high and too lazy to fly a proper circuit. At about 150ft agl the nose drops violently and speed heads for VNE with the stick on the backstop. Before I know what’s happening I'm through the vertical. I wanged the throttle full and pushed the stick forward - Instantly airflow is restored over the tail plane and I have control again. I just managed to recover below my landing strip (it's a hilltop site) and turn away from the hill. I gingerly fly a circuit and land.
What happened? Well, I think it was aerodynamic blanking of the tail from the thick wing in a full slip with no power and it absolutely terrified me - I really, really thought I was going in. I didn't fly for two weeks and promptly made a will.
To this day I don't know what made me add power and push when all my senses and training told me that was the wrong thing to do. I would be dead otherwise, and probably just another stall/spin statistic.
On homebuilt aircraft every flight is a test flight - remember that folks!
Kingy
** I've posted this before - just copied and pasted it here. Sorry if you've already seen it...!**
What happened? Well, I think it was aerodynamic blanking of the tail from the thick wing in a full slip with no power and it absolutely terrified me - I really, really thought I was going in. I didn't fly for two weeks and promptly made a will.
To this day I don't know what made me add power and push when all my senses and training told me that was the wrong thing to do. I would be dead otherwise, and probably just another stall/spin statistic.
On homebuilt aircraft every flight is a test flight - remember that folks!
Kingy
** I've posted this before - just copied and pasted it here. Sorry if you've already seen it...!**
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Scary one Kingy!
I've always believed spinning should still be part of the PPL course. I know the reasons why it isn't ect ... but knowing how to recover, and recovering by instinct are two separate things. At times like those in the case you just describe, it is purely instinct that saves you ... there is NO time to consciously THINK!
SS
I've always believed spinning should still be part of the PPL course. I know the reasons why it isn't ect ... but knowing how to recover, and recovering by instinct are two separate things. At times like those in the case you just describe, it is purely instinct that saves you ... there is NO time to consciously THINK!
SS
Join Date: Dec 2002
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SS,
The thing is, it didn't stall. The nose dropped violently and the ASI wound up with the stick hard back.. I had no time to think and don't know why I pushed - glad I did though..!
I know how you feel just before you plant yourself and I did not like it.
Kingy
The thing is, it didn't stall. The nose dropped violently and the ASI wound up with the stick hard back.. I had no time to think and don't know why I pushed - glad I did though..!
I know how you feel just before you plant yourself and I did not like it.
Kingy
Join Date: Jan 2004
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CB's!!
Recently approaching my airfield saw some huge black clouds with lightening hovering over my field. Decided to hold before commencing approach. The storm didn't seem to be budging. Then to my horror there were more big bad clouds coming from another direction. At this point I was desperate to get on the ground. The storm over the field had budged a bit so I decided to go for the approach - I thought the plane was going to be flipped upside down with the severe turbulence!!!! With rain hitting the windscreen and the sun directly in my eyes, it was a real task concentrating on the runway. Anyway, got to 0.5 miles and then realised there was another aircraft on the runway (boy did I want to scream at him over the radio). Executed a go around and landed uneventfully. Scared? Yes. Deterred? Certainly not. Should I have diverted?? Maybe….
Join Date: Apr 2002
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S-R ... no, I'm not a bloody EMU. You lot couldn't organise a drink-up in a ... well ... mess bar. 
It's a Jaguar. Honest.
Primus et Optimus.
Sorry, this is all vastly off topic. Enough inter-UAS banter.
It's a Jaguar. Honest.
Primus et Optimus.
Sorry, this is all vastly off topic. Enough inter-UAS banter.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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This is my first post here. I'm from Christchurch in New Zealand. I have my P.P.L and am currently studying for my C.P.L.
My first major "learning experience" was a solo CPL cross country from Christchurch to Wanaka. Wanaka is in an alpine setting. I had friends down there at the time, who I was gonna see, I was also ferrying down all the things they forgot to take with them, wetsuits, jackets etc.
The morning of the flight I had a head cold, nothing serious, but let me tell you now a cold on the ground is like the flu, cancer, and arthritis all put togeather once in the air. Flying with a cold? NEVER AGAIN!
The Cherokee was humming along nicely, at about 8000' or there abouts, well into the trip. For those of you who have seen Lord of the Rings I was flying over the same scenery where they did the filming, except it was the summer so there was no snow on the alps. It was a V.F.R flight and about half way there I was at 8000' and there was few cloud at 3-4000'. About 3/4 the way there the cloud was going from few to scatted to broken, that was when I considered flying back, I found it increasingly difficult to see the ground, and i was dodging cloud at my level. Certainly not ideal for a V.F.R flight in Alpine terrain! I foolishly failed to set my self clear boundarys, in terms of when to turn around, and pressed on, I was almost there and my mates were all waiting for their goods. I could see it completly clear out ahead, so I figured the cloud would burn off before the flight home. I got into the circuit at Wanaka (uncontrolled but very busy) I looked down for one second in the downwind leg, looked up and I was right up a helicopters ass! I Had made plenty of calls, and was satisfied I had a picture on what was going on. The helicopter wasn't doing his share of transmissions, which is nothing new! So I closed the throttle and gave him space.
Once on the ground it was all honky dory, my mates were there. However my ears were all little sore from the decent, and my head felt "blown up", The plane was wanted back in not a lot of time, and i didnt want to stay long incase the cloud built back up.
I taxied to the pumps There were 2 of them. One was being used by a tidy looking girl and her mum, they were filling up drums with avgas, and the other was free. I got out of my plane feeling special in my pilots unifrom, and yes with gold strips on my shoulders. I swiped the free pump with my card, but it woulden't "beep" to confirm it was reading to pump, the mother taps my on the shoulder "excuse me
My first major "learning experience" was a solo CPL cross country from Christchurch to Wanaka. Wanaka is in an alpine setting. I had friends down there at the time, who I was gonna see, I was also ferrying down all the things they forgot to take with them, wetsuits, jackets etc.
The morning of the flight I had a head cold, nothing serious, but let me tell you now a cold on the ground is like the flu, cancer, and arthritis all put togeather once in the air. Flying with a cold? NEVER AGAIN!
The Cherokee was humming along nicely, at about 8000' or there abouts, well into the trip. For those of you who have seen Lord of the Rings I was flying over the same scenery where they did the filming, except it was the summer so there was no snow on the alps. It was a V.F.R flight and about half way there I was at 8000' and there was few cloud at 3-4000'. About 3/4 the way there the cloud was going from few to scatted to broken, that was when I considered flying back, I found it increasingly difficult to see the ground, and i was dodging cloud at my level. Certainly not ideal for a V.F.R flight in Alpine terrain! I foolishly failed to set my self clear boundarys, in terms of when to turn around, and pressed on, I was almost there and my mates were all waiting for their goods. I could see it completly clear out ahead, so I figured the cloud would burn off before the flight home. I got into the circuit at Wanaka (uncontrolled but very busy) I looked down for one second in the downwind leg, looked up and I was right up a helicopters ass! I Had made plenty of calls, and was satisfied I had a picture on what was going on. The helicopter wasn't doing his share of transmissions, which is nothing new! So I closed the throttle and gave him space.
Once on the ground it was all honky dory, my mates were there. However my ears were all little sore from the decent, and my head felt "blown up", The plane was wanted back in not a lot of time, and i didnt want to stay long incase the cloud built back up.
I taxied to the pumps There were 2 of them. One was being used by a tidy looking girl and her mum, they were filling up drums with avgas, and the other was free. I got out of my plane feeling special in my pilots unifrom, and yes with gold strips on my shoulders. I swiped the free pump with my card, but it woulden't "beep" to confirm it was reading to pump, the mother taps my on the shoulder "excuse me
Join Date: Apr 2004
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CONTINUED
do you really want JET A1 in your plane?" If the pump excepted my card i would have pumped keursine in my plane, a fatal mistake. One pump was for avgas the other Jet a1. My phone vibrated in my chest pocket it was flight planning they rang after i submitted a flight plan back to Christchurch. "this is flight planning you submitted a flight plan for foxtrot juliet tango, hes flying in the north island, we think you mixed up the call signs" And thats what i did it was the plane i flew in yesterday, i still had its callsign in my head.
So i got airborne again with full tanks of avgas climbed up high, mainly for the view, it was a lot colder than before and a little louder i looked over and the door was open, it didn't latch fully on the ground. Just what i need i thought, bearing in mind the plane was wanted back soon. I was coming up to an uncontrolled airfield called Omarama, where i decided to land so i could close the door. It came up much sooner than i thought so my decent bacame pretty steep. Then this increadibly horrific and unbearable pain came over me. It was my ears! I honestly thought theye'd burst from the rapid decent, i remeber thinking "there goes my future". To make matters worse when i changed to this airfields unattended frequency, i was expecting it to be quiet but it was clogged with chatter, which i could barely hear because of my ears. Unknown to me at the time Omarama is one of the busiest glider airfields in New Zealand, and today was really busy. Its the airfiled where Steve Fossit's world record breaking glider is stored. There was no wind so the gliders were taking of left right and centre and the tugs were going in all the other directions, and here was me, about to do a standard overhead join. I was thinking about making a pan call just so i could get in, with it being so busy, my ears, the door and by this time i was really thirsty. I ended up landing without the pan call. I called the aero club to tell them of my ears and said i wouldent be back in time for the next booking. I spent 3 hours there letting my ears settle, which they didnt much, and "listning" to a gentleman explain how best for my to vacate the airfiled without causing any problems. I ended up flying home low level to protect my ears. and a few weeks later they came right.
So the lessons here are;
1) know what fuel you about to put in your plane
2) DO NOT go flying with a cold
3) set yourself clear boundaries in terms of turning back due to cloud etc.
4) make sure door is properly latched before takeoff
5) study airfileds you are passing even if you dont plan on landing there, do it in case of diversion.
do you really want JET A1 in your plane?" If the pump excepted my card i would have pumped keursine in my plane, a fatal mistake. One pump was for avgas the other Jet a1. My phone vibrated in my chest pocket it was flight planning they rang after i submitted a flight plan back to Christchurch. "this is flight planning you submitted a flight plan for foxtrot juliet tango, hes flying in the north island, we think you mixed up the call signs" And thats what i did it was the plane i flew in yesterday, i still had its callsign in my head.
So i got airborne again with full tanks of avgas climbed up high, mainly for the view, it was a lot colder than before and a little louder i looked over and the door was open, it didn't latch fully on the ground. Just what i need i thought, bearing in mind the plane was wanted back soon. I was coming up to an uncontrolled airfield called Omarama, where i decided to land so i could close the door. It came up much sooner than i thought so my decent bacame pretty steep. Then this increadibly horrific and unbearable pain came over me. It was my ears! I honestly thought theye'd burst from the rapid decent, i remeber thinking "there goes my future". To make matters worse when i changed to this airfields unattended frequency, i was expecting it to be quiet but it was clogged with chatter, which i could barely hear because of my ears. Unknown to me at the time Omarama is one of the busiest glider airfields in New Zealand, and today was really busy. Its the airfiled where Steve Fossit's world record breaking glider is stored. There was no wind so the gliders were taking of left right and centre and the tugs were going in all the other directions, and here was me, about to do a standard overhead join. I was thinking about making a pan call just so i could get in, with it being so busy, my ears, the door and by this time i was really thirsty. I ended up landing without the pan call. I called the aero club to tell them of my ears and said i wouldent be back in time for the next booking. I spent 3 hours there letting my ears settle, which they didnt much, and "listning" to a gentleman explain how best for my to vacate the airfiled without causing any problems. I ended up flying home low level to protect my ears. and a few weeks later they came right.
So the lessons here are;
1) know what fuel you about to put in your plane
2) DO NOT go flying with a cold
3) set yourself clear boundaries in terms of turning back due to cloud etc.
4) make sure door is properly latched before takeoff
5) study airfileds you are passing even if you dont plan on landing there, do it in case of diversion.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ligonier, Pennsylvania, United States
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Wow, good one steve!
Yesterday I met a tough reality. Went flying with my instructor for the first time since christmas (bad weather sucks + engine overhaul) and everything was going fine. I was taxxing out to the runway when the tower told me to turn to intersection bravo rather than go all the way down to the 32 threashold. I did as i was told, and soon realised why as a commuter jet passed behind me (he was taxxing to the threashold. So i'm now about 1/4 of the way down the runway on the side doing my runup with a commuter jet doing his runup down further up. I finish my runup and ask for the takeoff clearance. Me and my instructor were talking to each other over the headset when the tower replied...****Somthing**** cleared for takeoff. Reply - Clear for takeoff Cherokee XXXXX, brake off, throttle foward and my instructor stops me just as the commuter jet whizzes past
. Very lucky day for me, sorry for the long whindedness though.
Also, on final approach to land i saw a 747 about 3000 feet above me
, looked huge but i guess it was headed to another AP
Tim
Yesterday I met a tough reality. Went flying with my instructor for the first time since christmas (bad weather sucks + engine overhaul) and everything was going fine. I was taxxing out to the runway when the tower told me to turn to intersection bravo rather than go all the way down to the 32 threashold. I did as i was told, and soon realised why as a commuter jet passed behind me (he was taxxing to the threashold. So i'm now about 1/4 of the way down the runway on the side doing my runup with a commuter jet doing his runup down further up. I finish my runup and ask for the takeoff clearance. Me and my instructor were talking to each other over the headset when the tower replied...****Somthing**** cleared for takeoff. Reply - Clear for takeoff Cherokee XXXXX, brake off, throttle foward and my instructor stops me just as the commuter jet whizzes past
. Very lucky day for me, sorry for the long whindedness though.Also, on final approach to land i saw a 747 about 3000 feet above me
, looked huge but i guess it was headed to another APTim
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A very long time ago at a large international airport. Landed in a single and was passed to ground from tower for taxy instructions. Misheard and turned the WRONG way at the intersection when I came "face to face" with a 747!!!.
747 captain was very decent he waved and then asked over the Rt if I was going to turn around or would I like him to "back up"
No danger except to my very badly damaged pride. Moral learnt was to listen and ask again if unsure, even slightly unsure.
747 captain was very decent he waved and then asked over the Rt if I was going to turn around or would I like him to "back up"
No danger except to my very badly damaged pride. Moral learnt was to listen and ask again if unsure, even slightly unsure.
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Working hard it was lucky the 747 pilot saw your dot of a plane beneath his nose!
Another thing that happened to me about a year ago, was i did the whole post PPL flight test taking the family up flying thing. One sunday morning I flew my grandpa in the Traumahawk. We were ready to go, but the engine wasn't firing up, the prop was just turning over, it was on the verge of starting but just wouldent. The battery was getting on the flat side to begin with so it wasn't helping the impulse coupling with starting as much as it normally would. I gave it a few more primes and had another go at starting, again it almost burst into life, but not quite. So i got out to find an instructor, and as i did smoke from the engine started billowing from the engine cowling. I told pop to get out while i got the fire extingusher from the plane, i had trouble getting it from it hinges, before then i had never practiced getting it from in hinges, which was a mistake. I threw the extingusher to an instructor nearby who sprayed the engine. The second tomahawk we got into, it's battery was completly flat, so it was third time lucky with another tomahawk which went fine, and it turned out to be a good flight.
A few things i learnt was to practice dislodging the extingusher from the plane, and to be more careful starting a plane whose battery isn't complety charged.
Another thing that happened to me about a year ago, was i did the whole post PPL flight test taking the family up flying thing. One sunday morning I flew my grandpa in the Traumahawk. We were ready to go, but the engine wasn't firing up, the prop was just turning over, it was on the verge of starting but just wouldent. The battery was getting on the flat side to begin with so it wasn't helping the impulse coupling with starting as much as it normally would. I gave it a few more primes and had another go at starting, again it almost burst into life, but not quite. So i got out to find an instructor, and as i did smoke from the engine started billowing from the engine cowling. I told pop to get out while i got the fire extingusher from the plane, i had trouble getting it from it hinges, before then i had never practiced getting it from in hinges, which was a mistake. I threw the extingusher to an instructor nearby who sprayed the engine. The second tomahawk we got into, it's battery was completly flat, so it was third time lucky with another tomahawk which went fine, and it turned out to be a good flight.
A few things i learnt was to practice dislodging the extingusher from the plane, and to be more careful starting a plane whose battery isn't complety charged.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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I was a Low hours newly qualified PPL and had promised to take some mates to the Isle of Man for a weekend out of Newcastle. We had really been looking forward the day for weeks. Sure enough the morning arrives and the weather is not great....It's not terrible but it's not great. So I check the forecast and it promises a slight improvement... Off for breakfast we go.
2 hours later it's a bit better, so I push it....
Into and out of cloud at 1500ft heading towards Carlisle. All the boys except me are having a great time. they don't fly and they don't realise the stupid situation I have put us all in. Cloud gets thicker and I'm now on Instruments with no rating, praying for another break in the cloud.... It doesn't come and I know we are heading into hilly territory so I climb to 3000 still in cloud. My palms are sweaty my heart is beating and all is going tits up.
Fortunately something intelligent clicked in my brain and I made a command decision (one I should have made on the ground). Turned us around and headed back to Newcastle, as we are in the turn the cloud breaks a little and I see the side of a hill complete with sheep staring down at us.....
We make it back safe and sound and I learn something that I thought I was to sensible to have to put into practise. If in doubt don't ...Don't even think about it.
I'm not proud of it, it was stupid.
2 hours later it's a bit better, so I push it....
Into and out of cloud at 1500ft heading towards Carlisle. All the boys except me are having a great time. they don't fly and they don't realise the stupid situation I have put us all in. Cloud gets thicker and I'm now on Instruments with no rating, praying for another break in the cloud.... It doesn't come and I know we are heading into hilly territory so I climb to 3000 still in cloud. My palms are sweaty my heart is beating and all is going tits up.
Fortunately something intelligent clicked in my brain and I made a command decision (one I should have made on the ground). Turned us around and headed back to Newcastle, as we are in the turn the cloud breaks a little and I see the side of a hill complete with sheep staring down at us.....
We make it back safe and sound and I learn something that I thought I was to sensible to have to put into practise. If in doubt don't ...Don't even think about it.
I'm not proud of it, it was stupid.
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Everyone's pushed there own limits and skills at some point mate. It's one way of learning how to do things but a risky and often short method.
I think Safety Altitude would have been a good bet in the incident you talk about.
I think Safety Altitude would have been a good bet in the incident you talk about.
The more things change, the more they stay the same....
A couple from the mid-1970's
Paxing in a Cherokee 180, I was very critical of the pilot when he remembered to turn the fuel on half way through the take off run As a know it all teenage student, I ,of course, had remembered our instructor's exhortations about the need for checks and the distance an aircraft can go with only the fuel in the lines.
Two weeks later a new C150 is delivered to the club and I win the rush to be the first to try it out.
I go through all the checks, as I'm used to doing in the club's other C150's (where the fuel is always left on), being particularly careful as I have half the club membership watching from the club house.
Start her up, taxy off and the engine dies within 10 metres of lining up.
.
The delivery pilot had turned off the fuel and, although, through habit, I had put my hand on the tap during the checks, I had failed to recognise that it was in the wrong position.
In the circumstances, it was a hard lesson learned but embarrassment isn't terminal; a shorter taxiway and my failure to turn on the fuel may well have been.
More dangerous was my allowing an instructor to try to demonstrate a full flap, power on, banked stall at circuit height in a C150, despite knowing that we should have been doing it at 5000'. His intention was to take us to the edge of the stall so I could experience the early warning signs of a stall while turning final.
He was disappointed that he was unable to bring it to the stall and gave up after three attempts.
I later learned (and it has been referred to in an earlier post) that a C150 that stalls in this configuration has a tendency to flick out of the turn into an inverted spin and requires at least 1500' to recover. That is 600' more than we had under us at the time.
I think it was this experience more than anything else that taught me that you do not compromise on safety.
A couple from the mid-1970's
Paxing in a Cherokee 180, I was very critical of the pilot when he remembered to turn the fuel on half way through the take off run As a know it all teenage student, I ,of course, had remembered our instructor's exhortations about the need for checks and the distance an aircraft can go with only the fuel in the lines.
Two weeks later a new C150 is delivered to the club and I win the rush to be the first to try it out.
I go through all the checks, as I'm used to doing in the club's other C150's (where the fuel is always left on), being particularly careful as I have half the club membership watching from the club house.
Start her up, taxy off and the engine dies within 10 metres of lining up.
.The delivery pilot had turned off the fuel and, although, through habit, I had put my hand on the tap during the checks, I had failed to recognise that it was in the wrong position.
In the circumstances, it was a hard lesson learned but embarrassment isn't terminal; a shorter taxiway and my failure to turn on the fuel may well have been.
More dangerous was my allowing an instructor to try to demonstrate a full flap, power on, banked stall at circuit height in a C150, despite knowing that we should have been doing it at 5000'. His intention was to take us to the edge of the stall so I could experience the early warning signs of a stall while turning final.
He was disappointed that he was unable to bring it to the stall and gave up after three attempts.
I later learned (and it has been referred to in an earlier post) that a C150 that stalls in this configuration has a tendency to flick out of the turn into an inverted spin and requires at least 1500' to recover. That is 600' more than we had under us at the time.
I think it was this experience more than anything else that taught me that you do not compromise on safety.