have been asked to fly someone around as a raffle prize
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have been asked to fly someone around as a raffle prize
Hello there,
This non aviation club that a family member is in, have asked if I would fly someone around for an hour as a prize in their fund raising raffle. I'd be paying for the flight, as I'm building hours anyway. However, I'm not sure if it falls foul of some regulation or another. I'm sure I remember hearing of some heli pilot who got stung doing something similar. Anyone any ideas?
Cheers
92A (and its not a bus number)
This non aviation club that a family member is in, have asked if I would fly someone around for an hour as a prize in their fund raising raffle. I'd be paying for the flight, as I'm building hours anyway. However, I'm not sure if it falls foul of some regulation or another. I'm sure I remember hearing of some heli pilot who got stung doing something similar. Anyone any ideas?
Cheers
92A (and its not a bus number)
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NO!!!!!!!
Absolutely not, no way, never, not ever.
Had a talk by the relevant branch of the CAA at our local PFA meeting. Comes under Hire and Reward I think.
Mike W
Absolutely not, no way, never, not ever.
Had a talk by the relevant branch of the CAA at our local PFA meeting. Comes under Hire and Reward I think.
Mike W
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Even though you pay all costs, the aim is to raise money for the club through the raffle. It is therefore commercial flying; but there is an exception to allow it with conditions (I think the beneficiaries have to be a charity, for instance, and there are currency and manouver and other limits). Presumably Bookworm's AIP reference will give you the CAA gen.
I used to do it for my daughters' school raffle; that's how I know (knew!!).
SSD
I used to do it for my daughters' school raffle; that's how I know (knew!!).
SSD
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Actually the answer is yes providing the proceeds are for a registered charity and you seek written permission from the CAA first.
It is not an automatic right, each authourisation is granted individually after consideration by the CAA.
It is not an automatic right, each authourisation is granted individually after consideration by the CAA.
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Yes you can do a charity flight without applying to the CAA. They issue a general circular (a white page), if you comply with the requirements then they do not want to hear from you. As I recall the requirements are: operate from a licensed/goverment aurfield, have > 100 hrs PIC, tyhe aircraft must have been certified by a licensed engineer in the last 60 days and all proceeds must go to a registerted charity. The exemption is there to permit this and encourage people to run charity flights. You canm find it on there web site under a search for 'Charity Flights'. Any problems pm me, otherwise enjoy the flying and the fact that you can help others make money from your hobbey .
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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I do this a lot, offering trips over Central London, which is quite a draw.
I do not meet the requirements of the AIC, as I have six seats, so I write to the CAA on each occasion for permission. I point out that, although I fail to meet one criterion, I exceed nearly all the others.
They reply with permission very efficiently by return of post.
It really is no big deal. The only difficulty that arises is that you don't know the date of the flight before the raffle, so you put up the prize without certain knowledge that the CAA will grant permission. Luckily this has never proved a problem so far.
Timothy
I do not meet the requirements of the AIC, as I have six seats, so I write to the CAA on each occasion for permission. I point out that, although I fail to meet one criterion, I exceed nearly all the others.
They reply with permission very efficiently by return of post.
It really is no big deal. The only difficulty that arises is that you don't know the date of the flight before the raffle, so you put up the prize without certain knowledge that the CAA will grant permission. Luckily this has never proved a problem so far.
Timothy
The Original Whirly
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Do check first. I looked into this some time ago, though I don't remember all the details. You need a certain amount of experience/hours. I thought you needed to contact the CAA each time, though I may be wrong. But you do need to get the info on charity flights and find out. And if it isn't for charity, it's commercial, so forget it!
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How would the CAA know if Mrs Miggins from the Bognor and District Womens Group won a prize in the local village fete raffle and actually gone up in a plane...?
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Ah yes BRL but this is PPRUNE and how else would posters be able to fill there lives other than by posting the letter of the law interpreted by themselves and then "positivly" reinforced to ruin others fun?
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Maybe it's just me, but.....
Yes, we do, on occassion, get pages and pages of discussion on the finer legal points, when no one actually cares. But I don't think this is one of those cases.
92A is not a member of the club organising the raffle - one of his family members is. The chances are, he doesn't know many of the club members. If these club members get their friends and family to enter the raffle, the chances are high that 92A will end up flying with someone he's never met before.
BRL asks "How would the CAA know if Mrs Miggins... actually gone up in a plane." Unfortunately, there are lots of "Mrs Miggins" out there who do care about these finer legal points, and who might do their homework before going on such a flight. And if it's not Mrs Miggins herself, then it may be Mrs Miggins' friend, whom she tells about her flight in good faith, who turns out to be the busy-body.
Personally, I wouldn't undertake something like this unless I was absolutely certain it was legal. Fortunately, it looks like it's likely to be able to be done legally. (And - very unusually for the CAA - there is a single clear document to clarify the situation!)
FFF
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Yes, we do, on occassion, get pages and pages of discussion on the finer legal points, when no one actually cares. But I don't think this is one of those cases.
92A is not a member of the club organising the raffle - one of his family members is. The chances are, he doesn't know many of the club members. If these club members get their friends and family to enter the raffle, the chances are high that 92A will end up flying with someone he's never met before.
BRL asks "How would the CAA know if Mrs Miggins... actually gone up in a plane." Unfortunately, there are lots of "Mrs Miggins" out there who do care about these finer legal points, and who might do their homework before going on such a flight. And if it's not Mrs Miggins herself, then it may be Mrs Miggins' friend, whom she tells about her flight in good faith, who turns out to be the busy-body.
Personally, I wouldn't undertake something like this unless I was absolutely certain it was legal. Fortunately, it looks like it's likely to be able to be done legally. (And - very unusually for the CAA - there is a single clear document to clarify the situation!)
FFF
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Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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L
It is the same as anything else. It only really matters when you are caught.
If you do illegal PT, and someone is hurt or killed, not only will you be prosecuted but also your insurance company won't pay up.
So you could end up with a huge claim against you (the loss of the sole breadwinner in a large family, a stockbroker to boot) as well as a substantial fine or worse.
As dear bose likes to tell us, it's all to do with the risks that you are prepared to take, and for what benefit.
If, bose you don't think that it is appropriate, when 92alpha asks on PPRuNe for people's interpretation of the law, that people should reply on PPRuNe with their interpretation of the law, what do you think PPRuNe is for? Why don't you just not read, and certainly not respond to, threads of this sort? I know that you like doing the windy-uppy bit, but don't you ever get bored?
Timothy
It is the same as anything else. It only really matters when you are caught.
If you do illegal PT, and someone is hurt or killed, not only will you be prosecuted but also your insurance company won't pay up.
So you could end up with a huge claim against you (the loss of the sole breadwinner in a large family, a stockbroker to boot) as well as a substantial fine or worse.
As dear bose likes to tell us, it's all to do with the risks that you are prepared to take, and for what benefit.
If, bose you don't think that it is appropriate, when 92alpha asks on PPRuNe for people's interpretation of the law, that people should reply on PPRuNe with their interpretation of the law, what do you think PPRuNe is for? Why don't you just not read, and certainly not respond to, threads of this sort? I know that you like doing the windy-uppy bit, but don't you ever get bored?
Timothy
Last edited by Timothy; 5th Mar 2004 at 19:22.
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timothy, nope I never get bored of it!!! I do like to see a few raw nerves exposed!
It brings as much enjoyment to my meaningless life as those who spout endless law interpreted by themselves frequently incorrectly!!!
I mean an absolute positive NO!!!! when in fact it is perfectly allowable.
It brings as much enjoyment to my meaningless life as those who spout endless law interpreted by themselves frequently incorrectly!!!
I mean an absolute positive NO!!!! when in fact it is perfectly allowable.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I mean an absolute positive NO!!!! when in fact it is perfectly allowable.
FFF
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PS - Is it just me, or is it true that another feature of PPRuNe is the thread-creep which always seems to crop up on threads like this. Ho hum!!!
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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But bose....!!!
Your answer was incorrect (you don't need permission if you match the criteria in the AIC, it is effectively an automatic right) so why have a go at other people whose understanding is a little short of desired?
If we all knew everything there would be no need for PPRuNe, or indeed the Internet.
Timothy
Your answer was incorrect (you don't need permission if you match the criteria in the AIC, it is effectively an automatic right) so why have a go at other people whose understanding is a little short of desired?
If we all knew everything there would be no need for PPRuNe, or indeed the Internet.
Timothy
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PS - Is it just me, or is it true that another feature of PPRuNe is the thread-creep which always seems to crop up on threads like this. Ho hum!!!
Now anybody want to talk about Football...?
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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Why is it that just about every Premier and 1st Division team is saying that they are unable to put forward a decent team because of injury. I mean I know that this is the time in the season that injuries are at their worst, but this year is just becoming a joke.
Incidentally, what are Norwich's chances of promotion?
Timothy
Incidentally, what are Norwich's chances of promotion?
Timothy
