Go around... and sight of runway.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 103
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Go around... and sight of runway.
Hi.
I was recently practising go-arounds whilst doing night flying and I have a question for you commerical pilots regarding Go-arounds.
When initiating a go-around, whilst on final approach. Do you fly the aircraft just off to one side of the active runway -so that the commander of the flight can keep sight of the active runway and any traffic on the runway that may cause a *potential*conflict situation to arise?
My question is based at airports where the takeoff and landing runway are one and the same.
Thanks in advance.
Has.
I was recently practising go-arounds whilst doing night flying and I have a question for you commerical pilots regarding Go-arounds.
When initiating a go-around, whilst on final approach. Do you fly the aircraft just off to one side of the active runway -so that the commander of the flight can keep sight of the active runway and any traffic on the runway that may cause a *potential*conflict situation to arise?
My question is based at airports where the takeoff and landing runway are one and the same.
Thanks in advance.
Has.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
From: Preferably on terra firma.
Go-arounds et al
Hasell,
It's a bit easier to manoeuvre a Cessna 152 over to the right of the runway centreline during a go-around than it is for a turbo-prop or jet airliner! A lot is happening when a go-around occurs (as you know) but it is exacerbated by the speed at which things occur in an airliner. We also have to raise the landing gear as well as the flaps so it is very much a two crew operation. By the time an airliner has transitioned from the approach to the go-around and is climbing away in the corrct configuration the aeroplane could well be past the up-wind end of the runway.
Our procedures dictate that we initailly climb straight ahead on the runway centreline. This is by far the easiest method when there is so much else to do. So the simple answer to your question is no.
You do have a valid arguement as there can be conflict with an aircraft carrying out a missed approach and the reason for the go-around climbing away from the active runway following departure. Often then air traffic control will turn you away as soon as possible.
Interestingly the go-around manoeuvre often results in things being forgotten or missed out. This is because it is fairly uncommon and often happens when least expected. Things happen very quickly in an airliner and it is easy to forget to make that radio call or action some other part of the checklist
. The key to making this manoeuvre run smoothly is to brief beforehand so that each crew member is clear on what their role will be.
Good luck with night rating - it's all a bit different is'nt it?
It's a bit easier to manoeuvre a Cessna 152 over to the right of the runway centreline during a go-around than it is for a turbo-prop or jet airliner! A lot is happening when a go-around occurs (as you know) but it is exacerbated by the speed at which things occur in an airliner. We also have to raise the landing gear as well as the flaps so it is very much a two crew operation. By the time an airliner has transitioned from the approach to the go-around and is climbing away in the corrct configuration the aeroplane could well be past the up-wind end of the runway.
Our procedures dictate that we initailly climb straight ahead on the runway centreline. This is by far the easiest method when there is so much else to do. So the simple answer to your question is no.
You do have a valid arguement as there can be conflict with an aircraft carrying out a missed approach and the reason for the go-around climbing away from the active runway following departure. Often then air traffic control will turn you away as soon as possible.
Interestingly the go-around manoeuvre often results in things being forgotten or missed out. This is because it is fairly uncommon and often happens when least expected. Things happen very quickly in an airliner and it is easy to forget to make that radio call or action some other part of the checklist
. The key to making this manoeuvre run smoothly is to brief beforehand so that each crew member is clear on what their role will be.Good luck with night rating - it's all a bit different is'nt it?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 103
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Hi there Man Flex,
Cheers for the response. Yes when doing a go-around -manouvering a PA-28 to one side of a r/way is much easier compared to your aircraft :-)
At Waltham were I fly, its a simple circuit pattern with A/G radio. So when flying the warrior, its just the four steps to follow... radio-call(G-xxxx going around), power, position/climb and remove flap. I appreciate that is quite another matter in the complex aircraft you must fly.
Finally night flying is different indeed...and fun. Appreciating the black hole approach was a lesson and 1/2 too.
Thanks once again for the info.
Has.
Cheers for the response. Yes when doing a go-around -manouvering a PA-28 to one side of a r/way is much easier compared to your aircraft :-)
At Waltham were I fly, its a simple circuit pattern with A/G radio. So when flying the warrior, its just the four steps to follow... radio-call(G-xxxx going around), power, position/climb and remove flap. I appreciate that is quite another matter in the complex aircraft you must fly.
Finally night flying is different indeed...and fun. Appreciating the black hole approach was a lesson and 1/2 too.
Thanks once again for the info.
Has.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 103
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Hi Keygrip,
Yes sorry your right. However allow me to expand. The scenario could be...
I'm on final approach at night. I've called finals ...say 300ft QFE. Then I decide to perform a go-around -so I'd be inclined to radio call first, to state my intention, then fractionally later -perform the procedure.
I think the reason why I'd be reluctant to posistion,climb before calling at night is because at Waltham the overhead join is at 1350 QFE. To join the circuit requires decending on the deadside down to 800 ft QFE. So having elected to go-around. To avoid climbing into a 'conflict' type situation -with a/c descending on the deadside. I'd call to state my intention before manouvering-hoping to alert any a/c who might be converging to a conflict situation... That was my thought process for what I wrote earlier.
However your right -It should be ANC.
Thanks.
Has.
Yes sorry your right. However allow me to expand. The scenario could be...
I'm on final approach at night. I've called finals ...say 300ft QFE. Then I decide to perform a go-around -so I'd be inclined to radio call first, to state my intention, then fractionally later -perform the procedure.
I think the reason why I'd be reluctant to posistion,climb before calling at night is because at Waltham the overhead join is at 1350 QFE. To join the circuit requires decending on the deadside down to 800 ft QFE. So having elected to go-around. To avoid climbing into a 'conflict' type situation -with a/c descending on the deadside. I'd call to state my intention before manouvering-hoping to alert any a/c who might be converging to a conflict situation... That was my thought process for what I wrote earlier.
However your right -It should be ANC.
Thanks.
Has.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 428
Likes: 8
From: Middle East
Well ANC yes, but like you say you might be aviating up the chuff of another aeroplane without warning. So in the case of a G/A, a quick 'G blah blah going around' before the event gives anyone else in the vicinity a chance to keep a sharp eye out for you.
All other times ANC is the way to go.
All other times ANC is the way to go.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 761
Likes: 22
From: England
Hasell,
The practise of moving to the right on a go around stems historically from the good old days in the military. It was common practice to do all manouvering on the "Dead Side" to keep clear of the live side and always leave the runway clear for someone who might need to use it quickly. The military taught moving onto the dead side as soon as you were under control in the climb and then join the circuit again as if you were joining through initials. The initials join is level on the dead side and as most circuits were left hand, the dead side was commonly the right.
The aircraft of the day were generally single or tandem seat so the idea of the commander keeping the runway visual is not really relevant. It was more due to engine reliablity that pilots were taught to keep the runway clear in case some mate needed to throw his aircraft at it quickly.
In the current environment it is much more appropriate to climb straight ahead and concentrate on flying accurately and looking out. Then fit in with the downwind traffic as appropriate. The R/T call really is secondary to flying the aircraft safely.
MM
The practise of moving to the right on a go around stems historically from the good old days in the military. It was common practice to do all manouvering on the "Dead Side" to keep clear of the live side and always leave the runway clear for someone who might need to use it quickly. The military taught moving onto the dead side as soon as you were under control in the climb and then join the circuit again as if you were joining through initials. The initials join is level on the dead side and as most circuits were left hand, the dead side was commonly the right.
The aircraft of the day were generally single or tandem seat so the idea of the commander keeping the runway visual is not really relevant. It was more due to engine reliablity that pilots were taught to keep the runway clear in case some mate needed to throw his aircraft at it quickly.
In the current environment it is much more appropriate to climb straight ahead and concentrate on flying accurately and looking out. Then fit in with the downwind traffic as appropriate. The R/T call really is secondary to flying the aircraft safely.
MM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 719
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From: California USA
Certainly, when planning a go around for practice it'd be prudent to announce your intentions early, especially at an uncontrolled airport. If you've got the time and the ability to make the call, it's safer all around. As for unplanned... do what you gotta do...
Reminded of...
Cessna two-two-poo-poo (one mile final on tower freq): "(muffled) bzzz-pffft-bzzt--(more muffled...) pffft-pfft"
Me in tower: "Cessna two-two-poo-poo were you calling the tower? Please say again. You were muffled."
Cessna two-two-poo-poo: "pffft-mmmmbd-ort-i-bal."
Me: "Cessna two-two-poo-poo still unreadable."
Cessna two-two-poo-poo: "Tower, this is the instructor. Please send us around on short final. Um... I was trying to say it quietly because I wanted it to be a surprise for the student."
Me: "Oh. Ok. Go around."
Dave
Reminded of...
Cessna two-two-poo-poo (one mile final on tower freq): "(muffled) bzzz-pffft-bzzt--(more muffled...) pffft-pfft"
Me in tower: "Cessna two-two-poo-poo were you calling the tower? Please say again. You were muffled."
Cessna two-two-poo-poo: "pffft-mmmmbd-ort-i-bal."
Me: "Cessna two-two-poo-poo still unreadable."
Cessna two-two-poo-poo: "Tower, this is the instructor. Please send us around on short final. Um... I was trying to say it quietly because I wanted it to be a surprise for the student."
Me: "Oh. Ok. Go around."
Dave
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 1
From: UK
If I was flying a light ac in a busy GA circuit, I would almost certainly ease over towards the dead side, specifically because there are likely to be ac on t/o or rolling, etc; then I could keep an eye on them.
In heavy ac, it is unlikely you would be in a position where there was one on a t/o roll whilst you carried our the go-around. Having said that, the most likely scenario where this could arise is where you are some distance out on the approach and someone was given t/o clearance; a slow line up and a long time getting his t/o roll started could well lead to your having to go around. I may well ease over to the right in that situation, too.
In heavy ac, it is unlikely you would be in a position where there was one on a t/o roll whilst you carried our the go-around. Having said that, the most likely scenario where this could arise is where you are some distance out on the approach and someone was given t/o clearance; a slow line up and a long time getting his t/o roll started could well lead to your having to go around. I may well ease over to the right in that situation, too.
