How to log time - yet another PICUS question
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Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Bournemouth
How to log time - yet another PICUS question
Imagine the following hypothetical situation. During a visit to America, you decide to get yourself some FAA rating - let's say an IR, or a Seaplane rating, it doesn't really matter. How do you log the successful flight test?
My gut feeling was PIC U/S - that's what you log for a successful flight test, right?
Er - no. I was just answering a question on this subject on a different forum, and decided to look up the relevant bits of LASORS (Section A, Appendix B) so I could quote from it. And what do I find?
Case J: "Pilot undergoing any form of flight test with a JAA or CAA Authorised Examiner" may log PIC U/S for a successful test.
Since I figure that the FAA examiner is unlikely to be a JAA or CAA Authorised Examiner, that would rule this out. Thoughts, please???
(My own thoughts, completely unsubstantiated: there is no other case listed in LASORS which even comes close to this scenario other than Case J, so PIC U/S is the most correct answer. And in any case, it's only going to be a couple of hours at the most, and not even the CAA are going to quibble over a couple of hours, are they?)
FFF
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My gut feeling was PIC U/S - that's what you log for a successful flight test, right?
Er - no. I was just answering a question on this subject on a different forum, and decided to look up the relevant bits of LASORS (Section A, Appendix B) so I could quote from it. And what do I find?
Case J: "Pilot undergoing any form of flight test with a JAA or CAA Authorised Examiner" may log PIC U/S for a successful test.
Since I figure that the FAA examiner is unlikely to be a JAA or CAA Authorised Examiner, that would rule this out. Thoughts, please???
(My own thoughts, completely unsubstantiated: there is no other case listed in LASORS which even comes close to this scenario other than Case J, so PIC U/S is the most correct answer. And in any case, it's only going to be a couple of hours at the most, and not even the CAA are going to quibble over a couple of hours, are they?)
FFF
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Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
FFF
I looked into this some time ago, and the best answer I could find was that FAA training is logged according to FAA rules, CAA/JAR training is logged according to JAR rules, etc. All this stuff can go into the same logbook.
I know people who log passenger hours, just for fun. It's not illegal (the logbook is yours to fill up with junk as you wish) so long as one does not add those hours in the totals.
I don't know what the FAA rules are.
I looked into this some time ago, and the best answer I could find was that FAA training is logged according to FAA rules, CAA/JAR training is logged according to JAR rules, etc. All this stuff can go into the same logbook.
I know people who log passenger hours, just for fun. It's not illegal (the logbook is yours to fill up with junk as you wish) so long as one does not add those hours in the totals.
I don't know what the FAA rules are.
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
Correct, the time is logged according to the FARS which state you log PIC....
Why? Becasue you're already rated and current on type, therefore you are entitled to log PIC. Note though, if you are conducting instrument training, the minute you enter real IMC, you can no longer log PIC, as you no longer rated to be there.
If training for a ME rating (not sure about the sea plane rating)which you don't have, you obviously cannot log PIC as you're not already qualified.
However if conducting instrument training for an FAA IR, in a G reg plane, with an FAA (and JAA dual qualified) instructor, you must log the time according to the CAA....
[editied cause I just re-read your post]
Under the FARs all sucessful flight tests are logged as PIC.
EA
Why? Becasue you're already rated and current on type, therefore you are entitled to log PIC. Note though, if you are conducting instrument training, the minute you enter real IMC, you can no longer log PIC, as you no longer rated to be there.
If training for a ME rating (not sure about the sea plane rating)which you don't have, you obviously cannot log PIC as you're not already qualified.
However if conducting instrument training for an FAA IR, in a G reg plane, with an FAA (and JAA dual qualified) instructor, you must log the time according to the CAA....
[editied cause I just re-read your post]
Under the FARs all sucessful flight tests are logged as PIC.
EA
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Chichester, UK
I wouldn't worry about it. I've had a couple of chats with examiners about the whole Pu/t, P1/s and P1 issue, and they both believe the only time anybody will care is if you try and count P1/s as P1 for licence issue, renewal etc. - and if you're right on the line (e.g. you need 100 hours P1, you have 98 hours P1 + 3 hours P1/s) the CAA MAY recount it as Pu/t and reject your application. ISTR a case on Wannabes where this happened.
Apart from that nobody cares
Apart from that nobody cares
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Witnesham, Suffolk
I think the principles are the same in the US and in Europe. A successful flight test is P1(s).
Doing the FAA IR checkride, you're in the strange situation of being P1, under the hood (so can't see out). The examiner is Pax but looks out to ensure you don't bang into anything.
But you can't fly in cloud while under that hood, because then you would be IFR and don't have an IR yet and the examiner is only a passenger...
Not sure how you'd know you were in IMC, mind
Doing the FAA IR checkride, you're in the strange situation of being P1, under the hood (so can't see out). The examiner is Pax but looks out to ensure you don't bang into anything.
But you can't fly in cloud while under that hood, because then you would be IFR and don't have an IR yet and the examiner is only a passenger...
Not sure how you'd know you were in IMC, mind
