Do I Need a GPS?
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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IO540
For balance, my experience of rack mount vs handheld is exactly the opposite of yours.
I have found handheld units to be unreliable (I had a Tracker II that just kept freezing) and much more likely to lose signal. My plumbed in Garmin has never once lost signal or RAIM in the many years I have owned it, whereas whenever I fly with people with handhelds, including Skyforce IIIc, signal has been lost at some point, presumably when the airframe eclipses the satellites from the aerial.
On the wider point, I agree with the general concensus, get the DR and pilotage skills up to a point where you can rely on them, then get a good, moving map, GPS. I recommend the Skyforce IIIc, as it has much more detail than most, and is easier to read. When you get your own aircraft, get a proper aerial and plumbing.
W
For balance, my experience of rack mount vs handheld is exactly the opposite of yours.
I have found handheld units to be unreliable (I had a Tracker II that just kept freezing) and much more likely to lose signal. My plumbed in Garmin has never once lost signal or RAIM in the many years I have owned it, whereas whenever I fly with people with handhelds, including Skyforce IIIc, signal has been lost at some point, presumably when the airframe eclipses the satellites from the aerial.
On the wider point, I agree with the general concensus, get the DR and pilotage skills up to a point where you can rely on them, then get a good, moving map, GPS. I recommend the Skyforce IIIc, as it has much more detail than most, and is easier to read. When you get your own aircraft, get a proper aerial and plumbing.
W
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IO540 - yes, albeit only a few of each. I've flown myself around Southern England and Northern France, with various "handheld" GPS (not CAA approved), and with a GNS430 (approved for BRNAV).
The handhelds have all "lost signal" on me at some point - and with no warning or RAIM indication. The 430 has never so much as sneezed.
I can't comment on the build quality of either, because I've never had them open. The GPS3Pilot (my last handheld) is a very nice, solid, quality feeling bit of kit and I like it. But I like the GNS430 a whole lot better.
I carry an Icom for the day I have a power failure. It has the VOR facility, so in theory I could navigate with it, but don't much fancy the exercise. I've never used it in anger, although it does get used frequently for calling for start clearance.
The GNS430 is indeed not approved in the UK for IFR approaches etc - but it still provides a splendid backup to the ADF when on a procedure
The handhelds have all "lost signal" on me at some point - and with no warning or RAIM indication. The 430 has never so much as sneezed.
I can't comment on the build quality of either, because I've never had them open. The GPS3Pilot (my last handheld) is a very nice, solid, quality feeling bit of kit and I like it. But I like the GNS430 a whole lot better.
I carry an Icom for the day I have a power failure. It has the VOR facility, so in theory I could navigate with it, but don't much fancy the exercise. I've never used it in anger, although it does get used frequently for calling for start clearance.
The GNS430 is indeed not approved in the UK for IFR approaches etc - but it still provides a splendid backup to the ADF when on a procedure
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I carry an eTrek (cost <100 pounds) which I plug into my PocketPC and run Memory map on. Total cost I'd say was < 500 pounds. It is excellent, I have downloaded all pertinent waypoints to the eTrek ( VORs, NDBs, Airfields) in case the PocketPC goes tits up. However the great thing about the Memory Map charts is that they are exact digital copies of the CAA charts, and they're 100% accurate. No database issues. You can also zoom in to a larger scale chart, so I have the 1:500000, 1:250000 charts, plus a few road maps, and also the airfield diagrams. The airfeild diagrams are brilliant. We landed at Edinburgh, in misty conditions, and it was great for taxying to the GA terminal, you could see your position in real time on the airfield. The charts cost around 50 quid per sector (ie. UK South, UK north and Scotland) and each sector comes with the 1:500000, 1:250000 and airfield diagrams.
Heres an example of using GPS as a safety device. We left Edinburgh cleared to GRICE or wherever it was, and almost immediately entered IMC. We were in a SE aircraft, and monitored our position on the GPS. Had we had an engine failure we would aim to ditch in the Forth via GPS. The cloudbase was very low, reaching up to around 4000'+. We didn't use the GPS for primary nav, but had we lost conventional nav or in an emergency we would have.
Its also quite nice when you get home to download the track from the PocketPC and analyse your flight on a chart of the UK (see how bad your navigating was
).....
EA
Heres an example of using GPS as a safety device. We left Edinburgh cleared to GRICE or wherever it was, and almost immediately entered IMC. We were in a SE aircraft, and monitored our position on the GPS. Had we had an engine failure we would aim to ditch in the Forth via GPS. The cloudbase was very low, reaching up to around 4000'+. We didn't use the GPS for primary nav, but had we lost conventional nav or in an emergency we would have.
Its also quite nice when you get home to download the track from the PocketPC and analyse your flight on a chart of the UK (see how bad your navigating was
).....EA
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GrassStrip - I'd get one, and heres why.
I too am a low time PPL - about the same as you. I learnt in well equipped 172's with the full panel and moving map GPS. It was there on the panel in front of me, yet I don't think I once referred to the GPS when learning, save for a couple of times when I worked out my position using DR and then glanced at the GPS to see how accurate or otherwise I was. It was, however, there if I needed it.
Lets assume a scenario. You fly to A, but on the way get lost. The wind wasn't as forecast, something wasn't set right, or a gross error was made in planning (shouldn't happen, but it can, and we're all human and susceptible to mistakes). Whatever the reason you end up a way away from where you expect to be. You try looking for features - but still you're not sure. All the while, as a relatively inexperienced PPL, your workload is gradually creeping up, as the pressure on you to find out where you are grows. Now I know you have a number of ways to work out where you are, use radio aids (if you have them), get a QDM from whoever, or even call 121.5 for a position fix. It is essential that you are happy with doing any of the above. To me, though, calling D&D is less preferrable than pulling a GPS out of your bag and using it to find out where you are. Of course, if the GPS is kaput, or the satellites have all been knocked out by a solar flare then it ain't gonna help you much, but the likelyhood of that happening is somewhat less than you being able to say OK - the GPS says I'm here, the map features vs. what I can see confirm it, and I see now where I went wrong - wind must be X instead of Y, or my last turning should have been Z, oops I misread that 1 as a 7 etc. GPS back in bag, on seat, whereever. Workload reduces, and the likelyhood of errors compounding and making a bad situation worse lessens too.
You, like me, enjoy the challenge of DR nav. If you are the sort who likes this, then the fact that you have GPS in your arsenal won't change your basic instinct to navigate using all your senses and tools - unless you let it. it is just a matter of discipline. The continuing GPS/No GPS debate reminds me of the old driving adage - that if you wanted to ensure safe driving, sticking a 6-inch spike in the middle of the steering wheel would certainly make people drive more carefully. Now we've got seatbelts and airbags and ABS, and yes, a lot of people still drive like complete ****'s, but there are drivers out there who stilll take care. Use all the tools at your disposal to ensure safe, enjoyable flying, and used them wisely and appropriately. GPS is a tool like any other, and never should be a crutch.
IMHO, YMMV etc etc...
JP
I too am a low time PPL - about the same as you. I learnt in well equipped 172's with the full panel and moving map GPS. It was there on the panel in front of me, yet I don't think I once referred to the GPS when learning, save for a couple of times when I worked out my position using DR and then glanced at the GPS to see how accurate or otherwise I was. It was, however, there if I needed it.
Lets assume a scenario. You fly to A, but on the way get lost. The wind wasn't as forecast, something wasn't set right, or a gross error was made in planning (shouldn't happen, but it can, and we're all human and susceptible to mistakes). Whatever the reason you end up a way away from where you expect to be. You try looking for features - but still you're not sure. All the while, as a relatively inexperienced PPL, your workload is gradually creeping up, as the pressure on you to find out where you are grows. Now I know you have a number of ways to work out where you are, use radio aids (if you have them), get a QDM from whoever, or even call 121.5 for a position fix. It is essential that you are happy with doing any of the above. To me, though, calling D&D is less preferrable than pulling a GPS out of your bag and using it to find out where you are. Of course, if the GPS is kaput, or the satellites have all been knocked out by a solar flare then it ain't gonna help you much, but the likelyhood of that happening is somewhat less than you being able to say OK - the GPS says I'm here, the map features vs. what I can see confirm it, and I see now where I went wrong - wind must be X instead of Y, or my last turning should have been Z, oops I misread that 1 as a 7 etc. GPS back in bag, on seat, whereever. Workload reduces, and the likelyhood of errors compounding and making a bad situation worse lessens too.
You, like me, enjoy the challenge of DR nav. If you are the sort who likes this, then the fact that you have GPS in your arsenal won't change your basic instinct to navigate using all your senses and tools - unless you let it. it is just a matter of discipline. The continuing GPS/No GPS debate reminds me of the old driving adage - that if you wanted to ensure safe driving, sticking a 6-inch spike in the middle of the steering wheel would certainly make people drive more carefully. Now we've got seatbelts and airbags and ABS, and yes, a lot of people still drive like complete ****'s, but there are drivers out there who stilll take care. Use all the tools at your disposal to ensure safe, enjoyable flying, and used them wisely and appropriately. GPS is a tool like any other, and never should be a crutch.
IMHO, YMMV etc etc...
JP
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WCollins & Keef
I've never had the KLN94B fail on reception, and also I've never had the Skymap 2 fail on reception.
What I have seen is a load of hardware failures in very expensive fixed avionics, which would not be tolerated in handhelds - the latter generally being purchased by people who are used to the pretty good reliability of domestic electrical goods
I think the key to the widely reported handheld GPS reception problems is the aerial location. If on the unit itself (the usual case with Garmins), it will be shielded by the aircraft much of the time, working perhaps marginally the rest of the time (but you won't know unless you are in the signal stregth menu screen). Attaching it to the top of the front window is a very good solution, I think.
I've never had the KLN94B fail on reception, and also I've never had the Skymap 2 fail on reception.
What I have seen is a load of hardware failures in very expensive fixed avionics, which would not be tolerated in handhelds - the latter generally being purchased by people who are used to the pretty good reliability of domestic electrical goods
I think the key to the widely reported handheld GPS reception problems is the aerial location. If on the unit itself (the usual case with Garmins), it will be shielded by the aircraft much of the time, working perhaps marginally the rest of the time (but you won't know unless you are in the signal stregth menu screen). Attaching it to the top of the front window is a very good solution, I think.
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GPSs are truly wonderful things and you should buy one as soon as possible. The only reason not to is that the Dickensian CAA syllabus doesn't let you use it. Once you've got through that hoop, it's your number one purchase.
Mine cost £100 so don't tell me you can't afford one. For VFR you take off, set course and then check your GPS. It puts you on the right heading and gives you your groundspeed (= time to next waypoint). Don't trust The Met Office. After that you don't need to look at it again until you are near your next waypoint.
When you get to your destination airfield you can go arrow like into the overhead but equally, if the weather is not so good, you can position yourself easily on any chosen radial to join the circuit or come straight in.
Mine cost £100 so don't tell me you can't afford one. For VFR you take off, set course and then check your GPS. It puts you on the right heading and gives you your groundspeed (= time to next waypoint). Don't trust The Met Office. After that you don't need to look at it again until you are near your next waypoint.
When you get to your destination airfield you can go arrow like into the overhead but equally, if the weather is not so good, you can position yourself easily on any chosen radial to join the circuit or come straight in.
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As a recent survivor of a ditching in the next Firth North, I wouldn't recommend ditching as a plan.
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It's no wonder we are still flying around in a knackered aging GA fleet. Our mindsets are buried in the dark ages. reflecting on the upcoming centery of flight makes me think that if the "brothers" had not accepted and created new thinking and new technology would we even be in the air today?
The fact is that GPS is a modern and reliable piece of equipment that goes a huge way to lowering cockpit workload and improving flight safety.
Pure dead reckoning flight is from the dark ages and the people who advocate that it is the only way to fly and the GPS is evil worry me.
GPS is one of many tools available to the modern pilot and should be used in jointly with all of the tools available to us. I flew an instrument approach to Cambridge recently on the ILS using my FM Immune "certified" equipment 3 weeks out of a star annual. GPS in conjunction with the "approved" kit. Half way down the slope the GS needle stuck in the centre. GPS cross checking with the DME identified the problem straight away and the appoach was completed as a localiser approach from the plates with the GPS verifying that centre line was still being maintained. This was an approach to minimums on a very pooh day.
Flying VFR with the GPS in conjunction with a map, lines and wind gives very satisfying results. I have never been lost. I can identify my position from anyone of the instruments in the aircraft and VFR I can just look out the window.
I have used GPS for the last 500 hours without failure and there is nothing more satisyfing than arriving at a waypoint at the time that I planned it on my map. GPS is a great corrector for wind and other deviations. Perhaps GA would be treat with a little more respect by certain Air Traffic Controllers if they were ALWAYS certain of ther position and there time of arrival at certain points. If we fly like proffessional pilots embracing technology then maybe we will be treat like proffessionals.
Flying is meant to be fun and not eveyones idea of fun is doing guesswork with a map and a stop watch. Perhaps more pilots would fly past there first renewal if things like navigation were made more integrated? This is only going to happen if those who influence our thinking accepted the 21st cenury a little more readily?
For the record I am not saying that there is anything wrong with floating around on a summers eveing with no electrical system and nothing but a map and a stop watch. I also fly microlights and that is a very satisfying way of spending time and navigating. But lets not discourage people from utilising technology just because we think it is evil!
When I learnt to drive the car had no seat belts, I would not even think of buying a car now without seat belts, airbags, ABS, Traction control and any other gadget that will help me. Oh and of course sat nav!
My advice, buy a GPS, integrate it into your cockipit routine, dont rely on any one method of navigation, aim to practice them all and your flying will become more confident and fun.
/end of lengthy rant!
The fact is that GPS is a modern and reliable piece of equipment that goes a huge way to lowering cockpit workload and improving flight safety.
Pure dead reckoning flight is from the dark ages and the people who advocate that it is the only way to fly and the GPS is evil worry me.
GPS is one of many tools available to the modern pilot and should be used in jointly with all of the tools available to us. I flew an instrument approach to Cambridge recently on the ILS using my FM Immune "certified" equipment 3 weeks out of a star annual. GPS in conjunction with the "approved" kit. Half way down the slope the GS needle stuck in the centre. GPS cross checking with the DME identified the problem straight away and the appoach was completed as a localiser approach from the plates with the GPS verifying that centre line was still being maintained. This was an approach to minimums on a very pooh day.
Flying VFR with the GPS in conjunction with a map, lines and wind gives very satisfying results. I have never been lost. I can identify my position from anyone of the instruments in the aircraft and VFR I can just look out the window.
I have used GPS for the last 500 hours without failure and there is nothing more satisyfing than arriving at a waypoint at the time that I planned it on my map. GPS is a great corrector for wind and other deviations. Perhaps GA would be treat with a little more respect by certain Air Traffic Controllers if they were ALWAYS certain of ther position and there time of arrival at certain points. If we fly like proffessional pilots embracing technology then maybe we will be treat like proffessionals.
Flying is meant to be fun and not eveyones idea of fun is doing guesswork with a map and a stop watch. Perhaps more pilots would fly past there first renewal if things like navigation were made more integrated? This is only going to happen if those who influence our thinking accepted the 21st cenury a little more readily?
For the record I am not saying that there is anything wrong with floating around on a summers eveing with no electrical system and nothing but a map and a stop watch. I also fly microlights and that is a very satisfying way of spending time and navigating. But lets not discourage people from utilising technology just because we think it is evil!
When I learnt to drive the car had no seat belts, I would not even think of buying a car now without seat belts, airbags, ABS, Traction control and any other gadget that will help me. Oh and of course sat nav!
My advice, buy a GPS, integrate it into your cockipit routine, dont rely on any one method of navigation, aim to practice them all and your flying will become more confident and fun.
/end of lengthy rant!
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Wonderful post bose-x.
Like you I am so tired of those who advocate only using maps and stopwatch navigation. Even Bomber Harris recognised his crews need more, hence OBO and H2S.
Why is it not recognised that modern car engines with no mixture control, spark advance, carburetor, magneto, and one plug per cylinder, reliably run for over 100,000 miles with no problem, and yet we still have deal with all that 1930's technology in a relatively modern GA aircraft. Same Thinking?
Perhaps those of you that fly (VFR) in a small country with lots of nicely observable ground points, would be well served to spend a little time in an environment that offers very few observable navigation aids to the eye, sometimes for hundreds of miles. Such an experience might cause you reassess your opinion of GPS. Knowing exactly where you are may well prove a life saving piece of knowledge.
Anyone who fly's cross country without the best navigational technology in his hand or in his panel, isn't a safe pilot, IMHO.
Regards,
WB.
Like you I am so tired of those who advocate only using maps and stopwatch navigation. Even Bomber Harris recognised his crews need more, hence OBO and H2S.
Why is it not recognised that modern car engines with no mixture control, spark advance, carburetor, magneto, and one plug per cylinder, reliably run for over 100,000 miles with no problem, and yet we still have deal with all that 1930's technology in a relatively modern GA aircraft. Same Thinking?
Perhaps those of you that fly (VFR) in a small country with lots of nicely observable ground points, would be well served to spend a little time in an environment that offers very few observable navigation aids to the eye, sometimes for hundreds of miles. Such an experience might cause you reassess your opinion of GPS. Knowing exactly where you are may well prove a life saving piece of knowledge.
Anyone who fly's cross country without the best navigational technology in his hand or in his panel, isn't a safe pilot, IMHO.
Regards,
WB.
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Boxe-x
It's no rant, what you say is absolutely right.
But, as I say, the debate will go on.
On the one hand we have the ICAO PPL whose 45 hour (min) WW1 syllabus is just enough to cover basic handling and some basic nav (which, if you HAVE to teach a little bit of SOMETHING USEFUL, has to be visual nav).
On the other hand anyone with enough pence to fly anywhere has a working fridge, freezer, microwave, TV, VCR, car, etc. In fact the car might have a GPS in it. Then he/she goes to learn to fly and what turns up? A 1970 Mk 1 Cortina, original seats, original steering wheel. 99% of prospective customers would not touch this game with a bargepole.
So, those that do turn up tend to be those desperate to fly, and most of them can't really afford to anyway. In a purely business sense, the business attracts most customers from the wrong end of the market. Those with some money are usually attracted to other pursuits.
But the training business just doesn't get it. They blame everything on cost. They pushed for the NPPL. In the end, most of the NPPL takeup has been people who would fail the Class 2 medical.
So we will always get people saying that GPS is bad, bad, bad and one should stick to basics and learn those properly, young man...
In the meantime, new PPL figures are going down and down (and most of them drop out anyway in next to no time), the crowd of fairly regular self fly hire and syndicate flyers is ageing to the point where in 10-20 years time most of them won't be able to get their medicals, the fleet whose average age is 24 years now is getting almost a year older every year.
So the fields that depend on lots of landing fees (most of the bigger non-passenger-jet ones) on the "hamburger runs" will go down. The farm strips will survive OK, so we will always see some flying, but most of today's GA fields will either vanish or their personnel will disappear and grass will grow in the cracks in the runway (just like it does in quite a few already).
The CAA have the figures and trends before them and must see this. Anyone who runs an airfield, a school, or a maintenance shop, will see it also. But individually nobody can do anything about it.
But every time someone mentions modernisation, they get jumped on. In reality, carrying a GPS is about 1/10 of the modernisation which GA needs if it isn't going to sink. New modern planes, and modern operating procedures, are desperately needed.
But, as I say, the debate will go on. Enjoy flying while you can.
End of rant
It's no rant, what you say is absolutely right.
But, as I say, the debate will go on.
On the one hand we have the ICAO PPL whose 45 hour (min) WW1 syllabus is just enough to cover basic handling and some basic nav (which, if you HAVE to teach a little bit of SOMETHING USEFUL, has to be visual nav).
On the other hand anyone with enough pence to fly anywhere has a working fridge, freezer, microwave, TV, VCR, car, etc. In fact the car might have a GPS in it. Then he/she goes to learn to fly and what turns up? A 1970 Mk 1 Cortina, original seats, original steering wheel. 99% of prospective customers would not touch this game with a bargepole.
So, those that do turn up tend to be those desperate to fly, and most of them can't really afford to anyway. In a purely business sense, the business attracts most customers from the wrong end of the market. Those with some money are usually attracted to other pursuits.
But the training business just doesn't get it. They blame everything on cost. They pushed for the NPPL. In the end, most of the NPPL takeup has been people who would fail the Class 2 medical.
So we will always get people saying that GPS is bad, bad, bad and one should stick to basics and learn those properly, young man...
In the meantime, new PPL figures are going down and down (and most of them drop out anyway in next to no time), the crowd of fairly regular self fly hire and syndicate flyers is ageing to the point where in 10-20 years time most of them won't be able to get their medicals, the fleet whose average age is 24 years now is getting almost a year older every year.
So the fields that depend on lots of landing fees (most of the bigger non-passenger-jet ones) on the "hamburger runs" will go down. The farm strips will survive OK, so we will always see some flying, but most of today's GA fields will either vanish or their personnel will disappear and grass will grow in the cracks in the runway (just like it does in quite a few already).
The CAA have the figures and trends before them and must see this. Anyone who runs an airfield, a school, or a maintenance shop, will see it also. But individually nobody can do anything about it.
But every time someone mentions modernisation, they get jumped on. In reality, carrying a GPS is about 1/10 of the modernisation which GA needs if it isn't going to sink. New modern planes, and modern operating procedures, are desperately needed.
But, as I say, the debate will go on. Enjoy flying while you can.
End of rant
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I don't suppose I'm adding anything here to what's already been said by more experienced pilots, but...
My view was that if you can afford to obtain the 'latest technology', then why not add it to your inventory?
I will certainly been using trad methods to plan any flights I carry out (until I think I'm invincible, anyway - and that's several hunderd hours down th line
), but I like to have it there as another reference...
I've used trad methods and have still had a couple of moments where I've got sweaty palms as I think I might have strayed - and a couple where I actually have... so a greyscale screen confirming or denying my current position would have been an aid to me.
Now - if only I can find one that wakes me up at my destination... kidding, kidding...
Hersh
My view was that if you can afford to obtain the 'latest technology', then why not add it to your inventory?
I will certainly been using trad methods to plan any flights I carry out (until I think I'm invincible, anyway - and that's several hunderd hours down th line
), but I like to have it there as another reference...I've used trad methods and have still had a couple of moments where I've got sweaty palms as I think I might have strayed - and a couple where I actually have... so a greyscale screen confirming or denying my current position would have been an aid to me.
Now - if only I can find one that wakes me up at my destination... kidding, kidding...
Hersh
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Just as another comment, my grandfather a pilot of 28 war missions and postwar navigation instructor was astounded to discover that I used his "whizzy wheel" 50 years later. He could not believe that we still used out dated dead reckoning in this day and age and at 82 odd years of age thinks the GPS is one of the best navigation tools going.
This from a man who has more hours in the air than I will ever hope to achieve.
This from a man who has more hours in the air than I will ever hope to achieve.
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
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IO540 touches on a point that gets to me. These "1960s tech" aircraft that we fly are fine, they're safe, and they don't compare with the techno-toys we have at home. Fine. When I go for walks, I don't need much tech, either.
But... even this low tech level needs some pretty well honed skills to keep on top of it. Today, two of us flew to Le Touquet for fun (and for lunch). We encountered some thin stratus along the way - no problem: we've both done plenty of this before so we told ATC and climbed above it.
Meanwhile, there was another PA28 a few miles ahead, on the same route as us, who was clearly having trouble coping. His RT was snatched, and whenever we saw him (below the clouds we were above), he was at a different height and going in a different direction. We worried, on the basis he seemed to be "on the ragged edge".
He got there and back OK, but I would have been very nervous if I'd been in the back of that aircraft. He was a long way "behind" it.
My point: latest tech (devices like GNS430) would probably add to his stress level, because there are so many buttons to press and so much to do and know before it starts to "help". The 1970 Cortina wasn't beautiful, but it was basic, simple reliable motoring with no sneaky bits to bite you and not many buttons to press.
We can "simplify" aircraft (up to a point), but the pilot still has to be able to "manage" this device in 3 dimensions, while navigating and communicating. The clever bits come later. I made my daughters learn to drive on the Missus' 65HP banger, not my 210HP batmobile, for similar reasons.
But... even this low tech level needs some pretty well honed skills to keep on top of it. Today, two of us flew to Le Touquet for fun (and for lunch). We encountered some thin stratus along the way - no problem: we've both done plenty of this before so we told ATC and climbed above it.
Meanwhile, there was another PA28 a few miles ahead, on the same route as us, who was clearly having trouble coping. His RT was snatched, and whenever we saw him (below the clouds we were above), he was at a different height and going in a different direction. We worried, on the basis he seemed to be "on the ragged edge".
He got there and back OK, but I would have been very nervous if I'd been in the back of that aircraft. He was a long way "behind" it.
My point: latest tech (devices like GNS430) would probably add to his stress level, because there are so many buttons to press and so much to do and know before it starts to "help". The 1970 Cortina wasn't beautiful, but it was basic, simple reliable motoring with no sneaky bits to bite you and not many buttons to press.
We can "simplify" aircraft (up to a point), but the pilot still has to be able to "manage" this device in 3 dimensions, while navigating and communicating. The clever bits come later. I made my daughters learn to drive on the Missus' 65HP banger, not my 210HP batmobile, for similar reasons.
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And of course he he may have been trying to work out his position using a map and a stop watch, too afraid to use the nice shiny GNS430 in case those who "know better" thought that he was not doing the job properly?
Modern equipment such as the GNS430 in this example is designed using intuative user interfaces and in fact are very simple to operate. I managed to work out a dual GNS430/530 stormscope etc in 5 minutes without problem the first time I used it and flew IFR to Titusville from Miami.
I would suggest that he was behind the curve becuase he may have been at the edge of his ability trying to find his way in the murk in his clapped out ill equipped 1970 Cortina and the map and stopwatch probably just exacberated the situation?
Personally I would let my children learn in my 350hp batmobile, if they can learn to handle that in a controlled manner then 65hp toy car is going to be a lot easier? The quality of instruction......
It seems to be that the generation that did not grow up with the electronic gadgetary are the most ardent supporters of the "old way" (with the exception of my grandfather it seems!).
Unfortunatly it is still this generation that are influencing the newcomers to our "obsession hobby" and could be another answer why we fail to retain new pilots?
What younger person these days does not know how to operate a play station a picture message, decode a DTS DVD etc?
I put my life in the electronics of my CCR diving equipment and dive to 150m on it.
Technology is the life of the modern world. I am not a "sproggling" anymore but I am managed to manipulate this internet thangy with a triple monitor setup and write this message, programming a GPS is childs play!
Just a thought!
Modern equipment such as the GNS430 in this example is designed using intuative user interfaces and in fact are very simple to operate. I managed to work out a dual GNS430/530 stormscope etc in 5 minutes without problem the first time I used it and flew IFR to Titusville from Miami.
I would suggest that he was behind the curve becuase he may have been at the edge of his ability trying to find his way in the murk in his clapped out ill equipped 1970 Cortina and the map and stopwatch probably just exacberated the situation?
Personally I would let my children learn in my 350hp batmobile, if they can learn to handle that in a controlled manner then 65hp toy car is going to be a lot easier? The quality of instruction......
It seems to be that the generation that did not grow up with the electronic gadgetary are the most ardent supporters of the "old way" (with the exception of my grandfather it seems!).
Unfortunatly it is still this generation that are influencing the newcomers to our "obsession hobby" and could be another answer why we fail to retain new pilots?
What younger person these days does not know how to operate a play station a picture message, decode a DTS DVD etc?
I put my life in the electronics of my CCR diving equipment and dive to 150m on it.
Technology is the life of the modern world. I am not a "sproggling" anymore but I am managed to manipulate this internet thangy with a triple monitor setup and write this message, programming a GPS is childs play!
Just a thought!
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When I go for walks, I don't need much tech, either.
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Keef
My point was that while I accept the present training situation is all that is possible in the "PPL market" as it currently stands in its utterly decrepit form, if it is left to continue (which I am sure it will be) there will fairly soon be not much left to discuss because not a lot of people will be flying. On present trends, the situation will be pretty dire indeed just 10 years from now.
Obviously one needs to learn basic handling but there is no rational case for doing navigation with a piece of string. This is why anyone who has a PPL and is off flying on their own should use the best technology available to them. If the batteries go flat, etc, etc, you've still got your plog and you can fly headings, call up some radar unit, 121.50, etc. Or plug in spare batteries.
But this isn't a solution to the wider issue I refer to above; the number of people who are interested in proving their manhood by spending 60hrs in a decrepit C150 and twiddling a circular slide rule, is going down all the time.
A GNS430 is not a good example; it is the very last thing I would put in a mainly-VFR plane; it is overly complex and the screen is much too small to work as a useful moving map. The main reason it is so popular is that it is efficient on panel space (contains a radio/VOR/ILS) which in many cases makes it the only option, and the avionics shop makes a load of money on the supply and fitting. Something like a KMD150 would be a much better bet, a big colour screen and it takes just one glance to see everything.
My point was that while I accept the present training situation is all that is possible in the "PPL market" as it currently stands in its utterly decrepit form, if it is left to continue (which I am sure it will be) there will fairly soon be not much left to discuss because not a lot of people will be flying. On present trends, the situation will be pretty dire indeed just 10 years from now.
Obviously one needs to learn basic handling but there is no rational case for doing navigation with a piece of string. This is why anyone who has a PPL and is off flying on their own should use the best technology available to them. If the batteries go flat, etc, etc, you've still got your plog and you can fly headings, call up some radar unit, 121.50, etc. Or plug in spare batteries.
But this isn't a solution to the wider issue I refer to above; the number of people who are interested in proving their manhood by spending 60hrs in a decrepit C150 and twiddling a circular slide rule, is going down all the time.
A GNS430 is not a good example; it is the very last thing I would put in a mainly-VFR plane; it is overly complex and the screen is much too small to work as a useful moving map. The main reason it is so popular is that it is efficient on panel space (contains a radio/VOR/ILS) which in many cases makes it the only option, and the avionics shop makes a load of money on the supply and fitting. Something like a KMD150 would be a much better bet, a big colour screen and it takes just one glance to see everything.
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Perhaps those of you that fly (VFR) in a small country with lots of nicely observable ground points
There seems to be a two camps here who are convinced that one side are Luddites who only advocate "WW1" flying and another who think the other side can't tell where they are unless Mr Garmin tells them.
To get back to the original post, a low-houred PPL about to go out on his own, asked whether he should buy a GPS straight away. My opinion would be no, he should be concentrating on honing his dead reckoning and map reading skills for the simple reason that although electrical failures do happen, they don't happen to laminated maps and the Mark 1 eyeball. When he's happy with his 'antiquated' navigation skills, then buy a GPS and whatever else is going to help him enjoy his flying.
There's also the point that if you're hour-building in preparation for your commercial license, you really should be practicing the skills you'll be tested on then. (All described in great detail by FFF
)
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GrassStrip
My advice is somewhat different to Fuji Abounds! Go ahead and get a GPS, but get the cheapest (reliable) unit you can get. A Garmin Etrek or a Magellan 310 (my one) which you can get for sub £100 or $ if you visit the States.
In prepping for your flight.
Do the old fashioned planning
Carefully input your waypoint map references and use the subsequent distances as a cross check against the above.
Take the thing with you. Stick it above the dash somewhere and... forget about it.
Enjoy the flight, work on your VFR navigation technique, and if you do become temporarily unaware - you've got a great failsafe.
When you've really got on top of VFR navigation, that will be the time to invest in the fancy moving map gizmos should you feel the need (IMHO).
My advice is somewhat different to Fuji Abounds! Go ahead and get a GPS, but get the cheapest (reliable) unit you can get. A Garmin Etrek or a Magellan 310 (my one) which you can get for sub £100 or $ if you visit the States.
In prepping for your flight.
Do the old fashioned planning
Carefully input your waypoint map references and use the subsequent distances as a cross check against the above.
Take the thing with you. Stick it above the dash somewhere and... forget about it.
Enjoy the flight, work on your VFR navigation technique, and if you do become temporarily unaware - you've got a great failsafe.
When you've really got on top of VFR navigation, that will be the time to invest in the fancy moving map gizmos should you feel the need (IMHO).