More than I'm going to tell you, mate, or you'd probably try to stop me doing that, too.

I actually started before ST 2009 was released to the 'public', 'cos I was sent a 'leaked' memo.

My lips are sealed,goodbye.

Although I am not going to comment on the exchanges between two BA/ex BA people, this modification of a staff travel concession does at least partly explain to me the strong distrust of the company by some and their resulting desire to gain contractual rights in certain areas.

On the other thread. Dingbaticus has graciously come down from the mountain and has condescended to enlighten us with his philosophy on the proposed BA cabin crew settlement.

I ask myself why Dingbaticus' style and syntax are so redolent of, and similar to, that of a certain high-ranking BASSA personage.

Posted by a moderator on 19 Nov last year, on the CC forum thread

It might be worth bearing in mind that this thread is only available to current airline employees, Mr Holley is not a current airline employee.

Diplome - Given the 'winning looks' being received by non-striking CC from striking CC, as reported by JUAN T on the Professionals' Thread, I'm not sure at all that striking CC know they have lost. Indeed, non-striking CC now have another period of continuing immature and unpleasant behaviour of a different nature to deal with. Their collective patience has been and is continuing to be tested way beyond the call of duty.

What I have learned, and did not appreciate at the outset of this dispute, is that through CC's unwillingness (inability?) to think and act rationally for themselves they are an extremely vulnerable group. Without a union they risk being controlled by an over-zealous BA management. With a union they risk being controlled by a non-intellectual, bullying and self-aggrandising union executive that finds its way into power through their very vulnerability.

As Hippenine says "IR in major economic entities is a big-boys' game" and I guess this is the antithesis of CC's natural skill set and outlook on life. If CC are to avoid electing the same kind of executive in the future they will need to know they have lost, understand the reasons why, take their time to consider, then regroup and move forwards on a solid footing.

Personally, I feel the PCCC would be an excellent way forward as it has been formed by thinking, knowledgable, CC from their own realistic understanding of their situation. If they could engage an outside independent IR coach who can help them develop more of the 'teeth and needle' side of the game then I could see them being very effective representing themselves and the growing MF with BA management respecting their mature, constructive and mutually-cooperative rather than confrontational style, while making the customer the focus, in collective negotiations moving forwards.

As a Branch of Unite they could very well become a 21st Century example of a different style of union representation. If BA grows, and the PCCC is seen to maintain MF's Ts & Cs consistently above market rate over time, then other Unite Branches will be only too keen to mimic their style.

HiFlyer14 & Betty Girl - BA have knocked-out your bully so you can come out of the shadows - how say you?

Ralf Stosser If I was in their position, I might well do the same but the blunt fact is that every commercial organisation (particularly those with public shareholders) will seek to roll back any and every concession ever given. If one of the items appears to be costing the company practically zero - they will close it anyway 'just in case' and to add one more notch to their directors chair. Human beings do this.

It is particularly uncomfortable for those now in retirement as they are the post-war generation who worked hard and tried to establish a new world order - as someone once said! The economic basis for those decisions in the 1950s, 60s, 70s are all long gone, overturned and thoroughly trashed by the 80s and 90s, not to mention the ongoing current financial crisis.

In the UK, the NHS is another example of a good idea 60+ years ago that has not (yet) been adjusted to the modern era. Either the scheme must change or people's expectations of it must change for it cannot remain as planned. BA is in the same boat. Not nice but it is reality as BASSA has just discovered.

Paxboy

You may well be right in your assertions, but all I am saying is that this episode does explain some behaviour that could otherwise seem irrationally formulated.

If a dog bites you, you do not normally offer the hand again.

Sure RS. I have been severely mangled by large corporates in my day and speak from bitter experience. I do not like that pensions are being clawed back and cut. It is often forgotten that 'pension' = 'deferred payment'. It is an inducement to stay with the employer longer, rather than short term gain. In the minds of too many, 'pension' = 'bonus'.

Unfortunately, as the Western world moves towards the end of this phase of it's existence, countless millions are going to lose out. In the UK, it may perhaps have been said to start with Maxwell's crimes being revealed. The process is ongoing with each 'circuit' there is another 'bump' (intended).

I have a lot of sympathy with those involved in this particular aspect of 'life' with BA.

With an estimated £1.5m per annum in contributions from cabin crew, there's quite a bit to play for and it's worth PCCC getting some professional help to become more structured in its approach.

Having said that, BA doesn't want a two-union situation developing, so is unlikely to support PCCC over Unite.

Oh dear__________

Check out BASSAwitch's latest post over on CCTV.

Having convinced some of the faithful of the 'illegality' of removing ST, poor old Dorkan is now having to convince one that it was lucky that they got it back as quickly as they did! Not 5 mins though. If only the possible future but maybe not mrspony could be indoctrinated and then de-indoctrinated like that. Life would be a bed of roses.

Worryingly, it seems that some are clamouring for his continuation in post. FFS!

Is this the admission people are looking for?
 

Alledgedly from the pen of Tomato Man:

Has he seen the light?

Tightslot
 

Well as this looooooooooooong dispute hopefully soon comes to a happy conclusion, you & your fellow mods are going to have so much spare time on your hands.

Thanks for your patience, & my scars which are now healed!:ok:

@Ralf Stosser
 

Very true, so after BASSA went on strike, and bit the hand that fed it, is it any surprise that BA did not wish to make any concessions to the ungrateful cur ? Without BASSA, the members have nothing, but without BASSA, BA have a more effective business.

Pleasure fincastle84 - water under the bridge now, and we're all older and wiser


;)

Tightslot

If you re-read my post and then read Chuchinchow's post before, you will find that I was stating from the other thread that the poster Dingbaticus was not Duncan Holley, since your colleagues had investigated and cleared him.

As Mr Holley is not an airline employee (and only airline employees can post on that thread) and Dingbaticus' identity is apparently known, therefore Dingbaticus is not Mr Holley. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

What is the problem with this logic?

Back to Flyertalk, for me, if this is the way you do things here.

Don't go Ralf,
I think it was just a missunderstanding!

I knew what you meant.

DH has probably posted in the past but as you say not Dingbaticus, who is definately a current crew member.

How to make friends and to influence people.