Surely in a case as serious as this, everybody who had access to the aircraft should be questioned and the equipment checked for fingerprints?

Wow, 2 posts that I know something about.
You can be sure that BA security will be taking a close interest in any interference with aircraft safety systems using relevant security devices.
And I'm not going to discuss them here!
Finger prints. If crew or have fiddled then fingerprints won't help. 1. Because they have to handle these items anyway as part of the job. 2. There is only one surface on the assembly suitable to take a print from, and 1. applies anyway.

Some interesting comments on the other thread from what seemed to be a very rare species - a Gatwick striker.

But is he/she reallly? :=

I noted yesterday that HAHAHAetc's location was listed as "LHR" despite claiming to be Gatwick crew. Today I note it has been changed to "LGW". If correct, it seems he/she has got the transfer he/she claims to be striking about (albeit in the reverse direction :E )

Mariner9...good catch.

It seems that talks have broken down between BA and BASSA/Unite.

The Union has not commented yet...and the adventure continues.

UK conciliator says BA labor talks broken down - BusinessWeek

The pro-striker attitude...
 

The more I read form the pro-strike camp the more I become convinced that we are dealing with a very unworthy bunch.

oggers:

When reading comments such as the one you posted it is certainly hard to disagree with you.

What is amazing is that some of these people fail to realize that BA thought that that price was a bargain.

I suppose when you go through a failed strike and end up with much less than you started with you have to try to scavange a victory somewhere, however absurd it seems to others.

oggers,

I may not agree with the strike but the post you have quoted has been taken totally out of context, presumably in an effort to make it look more dramatic and fuel the fire. I think it's only fair that it be placed back into the context in which it was written.

Posted by MissM on the other thread

I hope someone over there answers this one. I would guess BA were trying to get CC to accept new fleet by starting with unpopular, low paying routes. What else? I daresay it is a tactical move, but why look beyond BA trying to get acceptance to the idea of new fleet? Talk about mistrust. If BA had offered popular routes to NF, BASSA would have had a field day complaining about it.

Besides, the 'lucrative' routes won't be once the MTP comes in, although I daresay, some will still be popular just because of where they are.

....which is one of the benefits of the MTP, request trips can now be populated with places that you would actually like to go to rather than just the high paying routes.

If it didnt pay so well would many actually want to go to NRT, really?

With apologies to Jim Bowen its another bit of "lets have a look at what you could have won". BA know full well that BASSA arent agreeing anything, so when the inevitable happens BA will transfer the routes they actually want to transfer and blame BASSA for the extra cost savings becoming necessary.

BA are getting savings way beyond what most of us expected by using the fact BASSA say no to everything and just ratcheting up the pressure each time they do. So far the strikes have cost about a 777 and a half. Pretty good value for money in comparison.

There are other fractors involved with transferring routes to other staff, who have been flying them during the strikes.
It's a part of it that BASSA haven't picked upon, but has been hinted on by LGW and one of WW's statements in a BA communication.

Bassa mentality
 

While real news concerning the ongoing dispute is scarce the story is still interesting.

Anythining I have seen including some posters in the other thread are allmost Orwellian in nature with a soupcon of the Che Guevara's.

The few who are sticking their heads above the parapets seem increasingly concerned in defending the strike with supposition and hearsay rather than proving the barrage of questions sent their way by other posters as wrong.
Ignorance is strength.

definition Owellian wikipedia; "..It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth.."

After next week's budget when the massive cuts in the public sector will be announced, Unite will have it's' hands full organising meetings & ballots for its' millions of public service members. Any concern for Bassa will be firmly on the back burner, in fact will probably be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Bassa must surely realise that they have lost big time & should quietly get on with the task of saving BA or start looking for alternative employment.

fincastle84Probably not. Did the stevedores accept that container ships had changed their world? Did the miners accept that economics had changed? Did the printers accept that Murdoch had broken Fleet Street?

It tends to be the case that groups with an entrenched position remain convinced that they were right - till the end of their days. Some printers will admit that they had it too good and that they got away with false practices for a long time and then got on with something else - others never accepted the change. Those who are stuck in old ways of doing things are left behind.

I worked in telecommunications for 27 years and was a specialist in voice based equipment (PABX, voice networks and associated equipment) but some of the things that cost thousands of pounds and required careful set up - can now be bought for a couple of hundred from an online catalogue and arrive ready to go. So I went and did other things.

The law of averages says that some of BASSAs people will know that. Some will be holding on hoping that they will win one more time but most will be realising that it is over. The leaders however, cannot do so. They have become so involved that simple male pride will not allow them to change. Ask Arthur Scargill if he was right?

There's a slur on Malone I haven't heard before...

:}

Another 12 Weeks of Strikes
 

It seems UNITE/BASSA have written to its BA CC members announcing another 12 weeks of strikes from 3 August through to the 25 October. This is yet another attack on the average family holiday. Not being able to damage them at Christmas, they seem hell bent on ruining summer trips to Europe.

I expect we'll see a response from BA fairly shortly now.

Another ballot--Anyone know what the question is?:*

I'd love to be a 'fly on the wall' in the BASSA lawyers' chambers as they try and formulate a strategy that will convince the Courts that the next strike has nothing to do with the last one.

ChicoG:

Quote:
They have become so involved that simple male pride will not allow them to change. Ask Arthur Scargill if he was right?
There's a slur on Malone I haven't heard before...


Funniest post in a long time.:D Many thanks.

BTW don't ask Arthur - we haven't got the time to listen to his response.

Suggested Ballot Questions
 

Some suggested BASSA ballot questions that would not be in any way connected with the previous IA.

1. PIMMS or Lager?
2. Burgers or Sausage Rolls?
3. Bouncy Castle or Petting Zoo

All vital questions because they might be spending a lot of time at Bedfont - maybe even permanently.

TB

PC767 on the other thread
 

Quote: BASSA reps were happy to accept that each case should be viewed individually by ACAS, neutral, and an assessment made. From what I've heard, heresay I give you, some people deserved their suspension or dismissal but many others didn't. Case by case by a neutral party seems appropriate to me.

It appears to me when you look at previous historical input from PC767 that PC767s colours are nailed firmly to the BASSA mast, and current responses should be viewed in that light.

Therefore I ask... Why, bearing in mind Unite agreed the current disciplinary procedures with BA, and that there are laid down procedures to appeal against decisions made within these agreements, should Unite wish these procedures to be disregarded? Aren't there already sufficient safeguards within their agreed system?

Edit
It appears it took me so long to write that this is now superfluous to the arguments on the other thread.....

So here we go again.

Soundings are that Tuesday's Budget is likely to result in very deep cuts to the public sector and tax increases for all.

This should illustrate just how severe the state of the economy is and how irrelevant this dispute is.

R Knee

I found there request rather puzzling as i believe that they allready have independant review available to them as part of the disciplinary procedure appeal.

Another comment I was astounded at was from MissM. that she would accept a previous proposal put forward by BA. But her union didnt even put it to the members to accept or refuse..they ( give us names for public derision) just decided it wasnt good enough.

Any Union member whining regarding imposition should have those facts tatoo'd (sp) on their foreheads so they can see it every morning in the mirror.

So, The union doesn't doesn't like imposition, but when BA negotiated and tabled a proposal that could have been accepted it was dismissed out of hand.

They dont trust BA regarding disciplinaries and want an independant body to review them..errr you allready have that at appeal.

This leaves us with staff travel?

To BASSA its imposition, in any other department of BA or any other company it would be called managing your employees.

Unions are necessary to protect poor downtrodden employees. In this case did the cabin crew really need defending against a malevolent employer whose original offer they would now love to accept.

VCC Training
 

I see that BA are advertising for more employees to volunteer for CC training to provide cover in the event of further IA to help maintain a 100% long haul service.

This offer has been extended to include US employees. The noose is tightening around Bassa's collective necks.:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

Baggersup
 

We've always found BA's US employees to be most friendly & professional. I suppose that it helps that they suffer very little exposure to the Bassamentalists!

Mrs Fin returned yesterday NCE-LHR & she & her boss both remarked on the extremely friendly CC on both flights. Thanks BA.

I am inclined to think that this dispute will feature in future Unite union rep training seminars for many years to come as an example of how absolutely not to conduct a dispute with an employer

That depends on who's doing the teaching, surely?

No need. Believe me, there are many within Unite that would not conduct themselves in the manner of BASSA. Many of us would have had this done and dusted moons ago and with a positive outcome for both sides.
One of the down sides of the 'Super Unions' (I'm no fan) is that one Union gets the blame, no matter what sector they are representing. BASSA fell in from the old T&G camp. They were always known to be militant in their make up. More noticeable now that militancy is so yesterday. Unions should work in partnership, not conflict with employers.
That does not mean disputes won't occur. It just means there will not be any confusion as to what the issues are and that you will probably have your membership with you.....
As I've said before...Both sides have little to be proud of in this particular dispute...

Been reading the "CC only" thread since back last Oct-09. I am just amazed about this "so very British" concept of "IMPOSITION" - the idea that Company Management can NOT BE ALLOWED to manage the Company without the approval of the employees. "Imposition" - the British concept that Unions are the ONLY ALLOWABLE Managers in a British company.

I am also amazed that BASSA supporters are still going on about "imposition" being illegal - this after a Court ruling that THIS imposition was LEGAL. What is it about the British mentality that denies the FACT of the Courts ruling making THIS imposition legal?

Imposition
 

AA_SLF

Yes and well might you wonder about a union that appears to believe that it can with-hold the right to manage a company.

But no the "i" word is now being bandied around by a number of weak-minded individuals who are trying, desperately, to make sense of the mess that they have gotten themselves into.
Individuals that -
1. Ignored important briefings from their employer.
2. Trusted BASSA to look after the best interests of the union rank and file.
3. Believed that they could hold out indefinitely against change.

Painted themselves into a corner. Now, they try to rationalise the situation they find themselves in. Try to find someone else to blame for their own lack of foresight. (or Stupidity as we know it in the real world)

I think this point would have a huge impact in any legal challenge to the removal of staff travel. We're not talking about a 3rd world employer here, we're talking about a respected and much sought after employer, who has already agreed similar terms with the vast majority of its employees, an employer for which a court has already ruled that their actions which led to the strike - imposition etc. - were actually correct and legal.

You couldn't imagine the same court saying the removal of a perk was vindictive and wrong, given the reasons for the strike were against the courts ruling.

Upgrading
 

I am not allowed on the BA crew forum [quite rightly as I am only SLF] but there have been a number of threads about cc upgrades on staff travel, although I admit to being a little bewildered as to how this impacts on the current industrial unrest [although on reflection, does anyone still know why some cc are still wanting to strike?]
Anyway, my point is this -when Mrs Wowzz and I flew back from TPA earlier this year, we were checking in at the same time as a gentleman and his wife on the adjoining desk. He stated that he was BA staff, flying on staff travel, and was wanting to know if he could be 'upgraded' from economy.
I have no idea if he got his request, but my point is this - Mrs Wowzz and I paid extra to fly WTP - why should this gent and his wife ask for an upgrade purely because he works for BA. In my travels I have always believed in the adage that you get what you pay for - if you want to fly Club, pay for it! If you want cheap staff travel, you sit at the back!
I have no issue with this gent and his wife gettng a cheap flight, as a perk of the job, but in my opinion all full fare paying customers should be first in line for upgrades, not BA employees.
[And just to make this clear, this applies to all airline workers, not just BA]
Sorry Mods - thread drift!

Wowzz, while I agree with you you only have to look around forums to find people asking how they can find a free upgrade - usually paying passengers.

As an aside, it was once suggested to me that WTP was created (at least in part) to provide an upgrade for economy passengers. The feeling apparently being that the enormous difference between economy and club was genrating demands for upgrade and that if the upgrade was "only" to WTP it might dampen demand.

I think it's also appropriate to point out that some staff travel is undertaken on the basis of an economy booking with upgrade on departure if available; is it possible that's what you heard?

Staff Upgrades
 

As a former employee of a US airline, our tickets were always on a standby basis. It was not usual to be placed in a higher class cabin than we had originaly requested because of space availability. However, we always paid the higher service charge for that cabin.

Conversely, I was denied boarding on flights because they had not catered with enough meals - even though there were available seats.

Staff travel was a wonderful thing and it allowed me to see and experience people and places that I would not have had a chance to do otherwise but like life itself, there were no guarantee you'd get a seat on the plane.

Sorry mods if this is too off topic but with the discussion both here and the CC thread about staff travel, I thought people might be interested in some background.

TB

Absolutely fantastic post.

Head in sand and misinformation
 

As SLF not allowed to comment in CC forum

They question the removal of ST and state no other company can do it
Miners strikes only lost pay etc (wrong they lost free coal every month)

My company, you get to use the company car for personal use, Yes you do have to pay tax on your P11D for it but it is still a perk, and often has been removed for many reasons,
The same with the company Vans pay tax on P11D but a perk that can be removed and again has
(of course the tax obligation stops on the date it is removed)

The good guys get the van home pay the tax and run a thriving lift and shift service
The car drivers get personal use of the car just pay fuel for private travel
(abused as taxi service at weekends) or just the joy of a car and just pay the fuel
The offenders lose the perk, they park the vehicles up in the work compound, and make their own way home, in some cases sixty miles, on top of having to return to the work after the shift, not just as before adjusting your trip to finish near home

The above perks are good, but worth nothing like ST with BA and even more significant when the average salary is £17k py

If SLF could only post over there and show them where their bread is well buttered

Fully qualified ARTISAN £17k pa working shifts over weekends and evenings use of company vehicle,which can be removed at companies discretion, the high light an evening in Methil Docks, and the annual holiday screwed by Militant CC

Jack McH

@Litebulbs

You seem to be sliding into using a standard BASSA tactic here : namely continuing to repeat a claim after it has demonstrably been proven wrong ( BASSA's 63 million pnds offered cost-savings being pre-eminenent ).

The imposition being discussed has been judged by the High Court to be non-contractual, so why do you apparently seek to ignore this by raising the red-herring of contract law when responding to AA SLF ?

@JackMcHam..

Exactly, the strikers seem to be putting their fingers in ther ears going " lalalala" when their very cushy terms and pay are looked compared to real people.
The governments cuts on Public Service will make BASSA's crying seem even more ridiculous. Civil servants on free pensions and huge wages are not the same as public services, emptying your bins, fixing your roads.

Litebulbs
 

Contract law. Do you have contracts in the colonies?

Being patronising or even (as here) actually offensive is not a legitimate form of debate.

Basically this dispute has been about who runs the airline - the Board or BASSA.
BA shareholders (and apparently most of the staff) want it to be the Board.