Fly MayBe - wot a shower
 

I recently had the pleasure of a rare experience - an almost on time arrival from FlyBe both ways EDI / JSY. I did use them quite a bit on business - walk on, no bags, until this. They were doing so well, until check in coming home.

I'll probably be shot at for this, but my reading of 20kg hold baggage and 10kg hand baggage, means that the ticket they sold me entitles me to take 30kg (subject to Health & Safety max single bag limit of 23, 25?kg) on the aircraft, and they have done their costings, fuel calculations and weight & balance calculations, based on that 30kg maximum. The aircraft is not really bothered whether it is in the hold or in the overhead locker.

Arrive at checkin @ JSY, my bag 21kg, and Mrs jaycee's bag 22.5kg, both of us with minimal carry on (less than 9kg total), therefore well under the 60kg we had paid FlyBe to carry. I was less than impressed when the totally uninterested 17ish year old check in clerk http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/wbored.gif said that I would have to pay excess baggage (about 25 quid) for the extra kilos in the hold bags, or move some of the stuff from them into the almost empty carry on bags. This took about 5 minutes, by which time the queue was nearly out the door - oh yes, I forgot, the one other open check in desk was acting out the same farce!

I took it up with the supervisor at the ticket desk, :ugh:who unsurprisingly was of little help, and showed no interest, stating that it was clearly explained on their website. (Booked the flights as part of a package, so never actually saw the website)

Am I the only one who thinks that this is a blatant money grabbing extortion of the travelling public, by FlyBe. You buy 30kg you should not be charged if you have less than that 30kg. Even FlyGlobespan include your carry on in your total allowance.

There is a further final insult! The carry on bags still fitted the cradle they use for the size check - just, and weighed under the 10kg - obviously, but when we got on the Q400, with its slimline overhead bins, it was a tight fit, and the flight attendant fully understood our feelings towards her employer, :mad: when she suggested that we should considered less carry on, and more in the hold!

To reiterate what TightSlot has said - whilst you are permitted to take 30kg total on the aircraft, if the rules for the airline say you can only take 20kg in the hold, then that's what you agreed to when you bought the ticket, and should be expected to be charged for more than that.

I sympathise with you but every airline does it differently - and you should know that budget airlines like Flybe are very strict with their baggage allowances!

With you all the way jaycee46. Total lack of COMMON SENSE (yes, I'm shouting at the top of my lungs)! What is even more astounding, with all due respect, is Tightslot's post.

P.S. I don't loathe airlines (well, except for Ryanair of course ;) ), but I do loathe airline check-in employees with zero COMMON SENSE.

jaycee46Yes!!! You just got shot.

Some carriers allow you to share total allowance between Hold bags. Thus I might have 18 kgs and my companion 22 kgs and it would be fine, other carriers do NOT permit this and the small print tells you who they are.

However, Cabin and Hold baggage limits have been set separately for as long as I can remember and I have been paxing for 43.5 years.

Check in clerk here. It's nothing to do with a lack of common sense and everything to do with the bollocking leading to a letter on the file, leading to eventual disciplinary, etc. I hope this explains why the letter of the T&C's is applied so rigorously. I also hope that the current trading figures of most carriers explains why all extra revenue is grabbed.

I don't work for flybe.

jaycee46 said (and apologies for thread creep)

This wouldn't be the same queue that I and family (including two young children) spent 80 mins in trying to check in at Jersey last Saturday, by any chance?

Arrived 2 hours before the flight and joined an enormous queue. Two desks serving the queue, 2 more apparently serving Fast Bag Drop and Economy Plus, but helping out as they seemed to have few customers. Was forced to wait while those arriving late were pulled from the line and pushed to the front by harrassed FlyBe staff. Eventually got to the front and was rudely told I had to wait some more while yet more herds of people were fed in from the back.

Harrassed FlyBe person says it's the same story every Saturday.

OK they probably got all their pax away, but to compare the treatment of us all to a third world state would be an insult to such a state. Given they know the volumes at the start, and given that there are spare desks available surely someone in the know should have varied whatever deal FlyBe have with Servisair to accomodate this crush in a more friendly and efficient way.

FlyBe Jersey outbound customers you've now been warned!

I think the weight of the hold bag is logged somewhere for loss/insurance/loadsheet purposes, therefore it is on the system and the check-in staff may have to account for any lack of additional fees collected. Whatever, it is quite simple that 20kgs hold/10 kgs hand does not mean 22kgs hold/8kg hand. Queues of hundreds of people at the check in desk and pressure of time has largely taken that discretion on the part of check-in staff largely away. These days, isn´t it accepted: go over any limit and you will be charged for it. You may as well offer to forego your inflight meal so you can take an extra 2 1/2 kgs!

Absolutely correct. I've been paxing regularly for 52 years and, until more recent times (i.e. the loco mania) witnessed nothing but common sense applied by airline personnel regarding these rules. I recognise and sympathise with lexxity's explanation, which is the core of many of today's problems. Staff are discouraged from using discretion and common sense. Hence the reason for such poor customer service now days.

jaycee46
How about doing the decent thing and amending your caption to this thread?
Wot a shower? So wot does that make you?
You cause an enormous queue to build up when you have been told that a max of 20 kg is allowed for hold baggage. If the check in clerk had told you to go to the back of the queue and repack, that would have been fairer on everyone YOU held up. You were in the wrong, so admit it and learn to read the rules for next time. They DO apply to you, not just others. I am surprised that you bothered to announce publicly that you didn't know that 22.5 kg would result in a penalty charge.
Are you like this about getting a parking ticket? "I didn't realise I'd get a ticket after 2 hours, because I paid for an hour".

What a ridiculous analogy!

--------------------------------------------

Let's just re-cap here. Airline allowance: 20Kg hold and 10Kg cabin = 30Kg

Pax checks-in with 22.5Kg hold and (say) 7Kg cabin = 29.5Kg.

And you are all seriously ridiculing jaycee46? Get a grip people :ugh:

By the way, how many of you are able to correctly weigh your bags at home - or returning from a vacation? What is the accuracy of airline check-in scales? I know the answer to the second question: VERY POOR!

Actually it's endemic in society. Without making too much of a political point, everything in the UK is now super regulated and we live in a tick box culture where with the best of intentions, the result is that all discretion is discouraged.

This is the reason many Police go after soft targets, many schools have glowing reports and yet our exams are crap, the reason there is soooo much traffic calming ( can't be trusted with any straight roads can the British public ) and why the NHS has more money than ever, more targerts than ever and the filthiest wards in Western Europe. Everyone can see all the nice wood but there's no sign of any trees.

In the same way we now have more passengers than ever, paying less for a nightmarish and often humiliating flying experience. I might add this is the workd where the ATC Radar Controller directing 1000s of us into Heathriw cannot be trusted to take a 101ml yogurt to work.

Still honestly think you'd get away with your argument in this century jaycee46?

More legislation than any other government in history and it's still not going well. There just may be a lesson there but most of us are too stupid or obese or smacked up or indebted to care anymore. ( God I am getting more cynical )

If they had intended for you to read it that way then they would have written "30kg baggage to be split between hold and hand however you see fit". They did not write that.

I consider it from the other side. If they allowed you to just take 30kg and not care where it went, a 30kg bag could be in the overhead bin. I certainly don't want to risk someone's 30kg bag falling on my head. With your interpretation of the baggage allowance, this is a distinct possibility.

Ignorance is almost never a valid defense. Nothing prohibited you from looking at the website and confirming if what you (incorrectly) thought was indeed the case.

Well here's a different one. An airplane ticket is a contract. In this case that contract allows 20kg of hold baggage and 10kg of hand baggage.

Assume you entered into a contract to purchase green and red M&Ms (ostensibly the same product...chocolate inside, candy shell outside) and the contract allowed up to 20,000 green M&Ms and up to 10,000 red M&Ms for one price. The contract also states that if you go over the individual M&M counts, you pay extra. If you decided on the day of the handover to take 22,000 green M&Ms and only 8,000 red M&Ms, you would have to pay extra. It may not seem commonsensical but its the contract you bought into.

I had a similar situation with the same airline at Gatwick at the end of last year. Mrs reportyourlevel and I both had about 23kg hold baggage and 5kg hand baggage. No worries, left the queue, repacked, rejoined queue, checked in without a fuss.

This is copied directly from flybe's terms and conditions (http://www.flybe.com/flightInfo/1baggage.htm):

This is pretty clear - you are allowed max 10kg in the cabin and max 20kg in the hold. It does not mention combining the two separate allowances.

I often wonder when reading threads on here or watching programmes like Airline on the TV why people who behave like children expect to get treated like adults. If you're rude and insulting to the staff any tiny little bit of sympathy that the had for you (and thus any tiny little bit of discretion they were going to apply) disappears. You accepted the rules by paying for the ticket, if you don't like them then fly with someone else who has different rules.

It seems to me that people almost feel scammed and cheated when they get charged for extra baggage/meals/choice of seats etc. but what they forget is that they've actually agreed to it when booking - it's written there in black and white. The fact that you chose not to read all the terms of the agreement is your fault, not the airline's. Likewise, if you don't understand the agreement, it's you fault for not finding out what it means.

Ever heard the expression "One gets what one pays for"?

I don't 'do' LCC's, unless there is no other reasonable alternative, and I've never had a problem with being up to 5kg over my checked in baggage allowance, indeed sometimes a membership of an airline's points programme, KLM as an example, will increase the baggage allowance.

But travel by LCC, whereas they offer a lower base fare but then charge 'rip off' prices for food & drink, seat allocation, a card booking fee, being a kilo overweight on baggage etc., then one should double check their baggage weights, and do something about it, before checking in and inconveniencing other passengers who may have taken the care to check their baggage weights etc.

Well let me render the thread title appropriate.

How else would you describe an airline that charges GBP600 for a one way flight, cannot check the pax in until -30 at the gate, thus denying him the use of the exec lounge included in the ticket, then fail to give him a meal voucher, so that the crew onboard decline to proivde the snack and drinks included in the ticket, even though they say they are aware he should have it, from the ticket price?

Shower seems spot on for me.

And it seems that this airline wasn´t able to fulfil the obligations of the contract, so perhaps that is not the holy grail some here would make it.

I wouldn´t describe Flybe as ´low cost´, just cheap.

Well, the hold bags and the carryons are individually accounted for as far as weight and balance of the aircraft is concerned. Since carryons are not weighed, standard weights are used. That means that the changed weight of a carryon does not affect the aircrafts ability to carry fuel (on paper that is), while a changed weight of the hold baggage will...

You might well also challenge the accuracy of the scales used to queery the amount of fees charged for any excess weight if past reports have a foundation. Last year there were quite a few news items flying around about in-accuracy of baggage scales at check in - e.g. the Guardian article:

The scales of justice for baggage 'cheats' | Money | The Guardian


That piece actually has a comment - true or not, as it is a shock/horror news item piece of journalism - that check-in staff with Menzies had a bonus for collecting overweight bag fees.........

The Post Office is required to verify the accuracy of the scales each day - does Trading Standards apply at check in too in the same manner, especially as more pax are being charged? If true that scales are found starting at +5kg before bags are placed on them is this not a criminal offence if fees are demanded with no recourse to the pax to query this in a timely manner. Does any poster have experience of challenging the fees demanded by getting the bags re-weighed or even requesting that the accuracy of the scales be confirmed in their prescence? Boy, that would cause a queue!!

It is a bit like seeing the correct luggage tag go on the bags before they are whisked away - I'm in a bit of a habit of just watching the correct label go on, as well as trying to keep within allowances / sizes and making sure the rules for any flight have been checked. It is up to the pax to understand the terms, as others have noted, but there seems no standardisation, so it is possible to mis-interpret the requirements esp. if using a couple of different carriers (with varying rules and regs) on a single journey.

I challenged the accuracy of the scales on check in at CPT. My bag which I'd weighed at home as 21 kgs put on 7 kg on the 25 minute trip to the airport and she wanted to charge me almost a thousand Rand. When I asked the check in agent if I could weigh myself on the belt(she refused but I did it anyway!) I had similarly put on 7kg in the same time. She refused to let me go to another counter and I refused to budge until she called a supe. Supe arrived, put my case onto another belt which showed the weight as 17.5 kg, and a third which showed it as 22 kg. A little worrying to say the least.

I have concerns about this not only from a commercial point of view but also from a weight and balance perspective.

Capetonian validates my (other) point. I experienced it myself (in Madrid a few years ago when my 19Kg bag weighed in at 25Kgs) and it is most certainly not unusual.

Here's an idea for the locos. Why not provide pax waiting at the check-in or bag drop-off line with a means to weigh their bags - and thus make any necessary weight ballancing adjustments before reaching the counter?

Nice to get a bit of relavent debate going here, with a few obvious exceptions - Icare9 - your intuitive observation shows you obviously completely missed the point - to use your analogy, if I pay for 2 hours parking and get fined after 90 minutes, I think I am entitled to be annoyed.

Phileas Fogg - not all of us have the flight options available to you, and here in sunny Scotlandshire, the LoCo's and charters are fast becoming our only options. Maybe that will change when the BAA / BA / LHR cartel is finally broken by the competition authorities, with the sale of GLA or EDI - we can but hope!

Just to put a couple of points straight, which I missed from the original post. The same bags travelled from EDI the previous week, weighing slightly more - we did use shampoo, shower gel etc, whilst away - without any issue, comment or charge - I guess EDI checkin agents are allowed to use their initiative! To take up NICKMO's point, I did actually weigh our bags before leaving home, (did not have the bathroom scales on holiday for weighing the return bags - too heavy!) and both bags were under the 20kg hold limit, but at EDI checkin, they had each put on a full kilo, making them technically overweight. Maybe I should have asked for the calibration certificates of the scales in JSY, and held up the queue even longer?
For the avoidance of doubt, and the benefit of those in the queue, after our initial incredulity and attempt at reasoning - not behaving like children Reportyourlevel - we quickly repacked the bags, didn't ask to see the calibration certificate finished check in and moved away. No shouting, no petted lips - minimal holdup to the others in the queue. For your information, the one other open check in desk was doing the same thing to a party of 6 or 7 pax, which obviously took much longer. The frank exchange of views took place at the ticket desk, with a FlyBe supervisor, who incidentally Wingo Wango, showed no inclination to commit anything to paper.

The responses on here seem to fall into three camps: 1. Those obviously empolyed by the airline(s) 2. Those who keep to the 'computer says no' mentality, without any flexibility or initiative, hiding behind the T & C's. 3. Those who have some degree of understanding and agreement with the principal I am trying to make.

I am intellegent enough to fully understand (thanks for the enlightenment from some of you) what 20kg hold and 10kg hand means, but to be so inflexible over what was 2.5kg, weighed by potentially inaccurate measuring equipment, and within the paid for total allowance, to me, and I think most right minded people, beggers belief. I would be interested to know how much cash FlyMayBe made on Saturday at JSY, from excess baggage, or did they merely create a huge queue by getting folk to repack their bags at checkin, to take the same weight on the A/C, for little or no financal benefit? The sort of shoot and foot scenario springs to mind here! Or is there a competition between checkin staff to see who can have the longest queue? (cheap I know, but probably true!)

Just to creep the thread slightly, if I may, for all you FlyMayBe employees looking at this, I used to use the airline on a regular, 2 - 3 times a month, basis, GLA / BHX, full price flexible tickets, and actually was a member of your F.F. programme. Then came the shambles which was the aquisition of BA-CONNECT. Unbelievable delays, cancellations, appaling customer service, the lot. I almost became a plane spotter, the amount of time I spent in the observation deck at BHX, waiting for the next flight! I started using the train at that time - what a revalation. City Centre to City Centre quicker than flying, cheaper, more comfortable, more reliable, did not have to strip down to nearly my scants to get on, could carry on a bottle of water / shampoo / cola. Even driving was a better option if there was a couple of us travelling. Me and my colleagues business is now lost to you, and our reason for looking for an alternative was basically due to your airline's cr*p service, albeit some time ago (hopefully improved now, but no experience). We have no dersire to return to the air for the BHX trips, for the reasons stated above. To be honest, when I saw that my holiday company was using FlyMayBe (sorry to keep using the old name, but it kinda stuck in the mind during all the delays and cancellations), I made all attempts to find an alternative, but a 4 hour layover at LGW, waiting for our national flag carrier, being the next best option, was a non starter. How many other people have taken the same steps away from flying - regional airlines need to take note.

Jaycee

If you're looking to get a rise from Flybe employees, you'd probably get a bit more credibility - and more thoughtful responses - if you could at least use the correct company name.

With the BA Connect acquisition, Flybe effectively doubled in size overnight. Teething troubles were regrettable, but pretty much inevitable. A lot of people put in a lot of work to make the merger / acquisition a success, and I'd like to think that service and reliability are a whole lot better than the early days.

Flybe are not responsible for you having to 'strip down to nearly my scants' - thank the Department of Transport for that one. If it's any consolation, your pilots and cabin crew have to abide by the same rules - we can lock ourselves in a flightdeck with a big crash axe but can't bring a pot of yoghurt to work.

I don't know if you mean to Jaycee but in your posts you come across as someone who has decided they don't like Flybe very much. Persisting in calling the company 'FlyMayBe' and describing us as a 'shower' simply because the check-in agent enforced the terms and conditions you signed up to suggests you have pretty much made up your mind, and there's not much me, Jim French or anyone else from Flybe can do to change it.

G SXTY

You are quite wrong to suggest that I do not like FlyBe, and I'm not having a go, merely trying to stimulate reasoned debate.

As a supplier to me of a service, in this case travel, I have found the service received, in the past, from FlyBe to be less than I would consider to be satisfactory, and have moved my business to an alternative supplier, ie Virgin Trains. This is not purely a FlyBe issue, I and many others, judging by the contents of this forum, find the whole air travel experience in the UK to be hugely unpleasant, for reasons, some of which have been stated previously, whether it be with FlyBe, EZY, FR, BA, BD, or anyone else, so I'm not picking on BE - it was just unfortunate for you, that my recent bad experience happened to be with you, and I do also realise that a lot of the crap at airports is not all the fault of the airlines, but I would point out, that the airlines are the airport customers, and should be taking them to task over the matter!

I would respectfully suggest, with no personal malice, that your post perhaps sums up what is wrong with the airline industry in the UK. Your defence of your employer is admirable, and to be applauded. However, what you seem to fail to grasp is that I am a farepaying customer, with a grievance. Without the SLF, paying the fares, and traveliing with the airlines, there is no need for airlines, and as a consequence, obviously,no airline jobs. Would it not be better if a bit more time was spent looking after those paying the wages, rather than ridiculing (SLF - I ask you!) them, and accepting that some of the criticism of the industry and its procedures has foundation, rather than working out new stealthy ways to prise a few extra quid out of us.

Here's a free idea. Stick a tenner on each ticket, loose all the crappy penal charges, and offer a service that people will readily want to heap praise upon. People living outside the London (all), MAN & BHX areas are more interested in the availability of direct flights which avoid the above, and to be honest, within reason the price is of secondary importance.

In respect of the BACON merger (also done to death on this forum), I'm sure there was a huge amount of difficult work and effort, but is that not what you do - run an airline? The passenger just wants to buy a ticket, turn up at the appointed time, and be taken to the destination on the ticket, on time, without hassle, and in safety. Really not interested in the internal operational problems, until they interfere with the service received.

The new West Coast Main Line service will very soon mean that I can get to London from Glasgow in 4 hours, so not needing an air service for my 15 - 20 trips a year to London. That is not good news for regional air services. Just read that VLM has binned LCY / MAN, because the cannot compete with the train, even though I would consider LCY has to be one of the less unpleasant airport experiences - more to come I'm sure.

At the time FlyBE became a complete shambles I gave up flying with them. Haven't used them since. I now fly to my regular UK destination (12-16 round trips per year) with the competition. They haven't upset me once and provide a good service. My loyalties are now with them. I get so many "special" limited time offers by e-mail (which then get extended because of their outstanding "success") that I sometimes wonder if Flybe are becoming desperate to fill seats?

As one of TightSlot's "usual suspects", I'll bow out with this: If my colleagues and I were not to use discretion and common sense by the bag full every day of our working lives, I kid you not, you (TightSlot) and your passengers would be spending a great deal more time either on the ground or in the air before reaching your destination! That's why I'm a pain-in-the-ar$e advocate for those two virtues. Over and out.

While not wishing to "kiss the posterior" of a mod, I think TightSlot's posting sums things up nicely.

Don't forget that excess charges do NOT reflect increased operating costs due to weight, but allow airlines to recoup the revenues they'd otherwise have made in less competitive markets.

The OP latterly suggested "stick[ing] on a tenner" for extras. Nice idea, but in practice more expensive tickets don't compete. "Hidden extras" are a way to redress the balance. The OP did accept these conditions when he originally purchased tickets, or authorised others to act on his behalf.

Talk of "check in commonsense" is misplaced. In so many areas, discretion has been removed from customer-facing roles so that carefully calculated algorithms advance the survival - not prosperity - of competitors in a crowded market. You might not like it. I don't like it much, either. But I won't delay a queue of hopeful travellers by struggling with my side of the bargain.

Oddly enough, the US "invented" cheap air travel and now rewards regulars with baggage perks, upgrades and express security - for no additional cost. We reciprocate by returning, time and again. What are my once-beloved Europeans waiting for? :E :} :ok:

Where the weight is DOES matter
 

Getting back to the first post

Are you sure about that? You said that you flew in a Q400. I can assure you that any of the Dash8 series of aircraft really do care where the extra weight is.

The Q400 has 72 seats (or up to 76 depending on fittings) and is one of the few passenger aircraft that are longer than their wingspan. The baggage hold is at the rear of the passenger compartment and not underneath the passenger compartment as it is in most of the larger jet aircraft.

Taking the OP's position to it's extreme conclusion, you might have a situation where all the pax have their "extra 10 kg" in their hold luggage. That is up to 760 kg right down the back of the aicraft (instead of being spread around evenly). If that were to happen, the aircraft Weight and Balance would be so far to the rear that the aircraft may be uncontrollable in flight.

When that happens, the people in load control have two options:
1. Remove hold luggage (get your bags later)
2. Remove passengers (the last few rows of the aircraft kept empty)

So you may want to entertain the possibility that weight restrictions are there for a reason. At least in this case.

DIVOSH!

WingoWango If that's true then it's well hidden and not promoted. You get 30kg if you pay for a flexible fare. The rewards scheme does allow you access to the lounges by cashing in points, and "free" flights (the quotes are there because you do have to pay taxes and charges) but not AFAIK extra luggage allowances.

I am constantly struggling to make my hand and hold luggage fit into the FlyBe baggage allowances and the onward long haul allowances, and would really welcome trading points or sensible cash for an extra cabin or hold allowance. Oddly the extra hold allowance is available on an interline ticket, but that isn't available to me.

The point made about customers trying to stretch whatever allowance they are given is so true.

Haven't a clue, could you look at booking a through ticket for your onwards?

Standard allowances are generally Economy 20kgs, business/premium 30kgs, first 40kgs. This does not include The Americas.

You should always check with your actual carrier and please do this before arriving at the airport.

Lexxity thanks for that but I can't always travel on one ticket. Apologies to all for drifting away from the original subject....

Wingo Wango

If you take the time to do some research you will find that satisfied customers tell several people of their experience and dissatisfied people tell several times more, thus amplifying the complaint.

That is why you recall my post elsewhere and why I have told many people since this flight about the experience and I will continue to to so.

Your remark about compensation is quite insulting, if you work for Flybe, you should be ashamed for making that comment, as I have never suggested that I wished for any compensation.

You don't need to understand anything more than the facts I posted, I was entitled to receive lounge access and snacks/drinks and did not.

Furthermore, when I asked for a comment form, the airline did not have any available; I was going to complete one and ask the crew to send it to their ops department.

If you think that a busy person like me is going to take the time and trouble to trawl through a website to find a contact form, you are wrong.

That is the equivalent of being punished for the airline failing to provide the right service level and customer service 101 (which seems to have missed the reading list of most airline employees) suggests that it is unwise to rely on such mechanisms and that a company should make it easy for customers to complain, so that the negative can be turned into a positive and the customer retained.

When similar service breakdowns have happened on other airlines, the no 1 CC member has asked permission to make a report on my behalf and the airline has contacted me to apologise.

As there are plenty of other carriers out there, I have voted with my feet and will not be giving Flybe a second chance, unless it is the only company offering a service on a route. when I need one (which is highly unlikely.)

PPrune is R&R for me, I've been on the board for nearly 10 years.

Whereas I flew with your company once and have no intention of darkening your doors again.

You go figure.....

WW I recommend the ignore button - it works a treat for me. :ok:

I'm getting a little confused - are we discussing:
- A passenger who hoped the T&C would be rewritten to his advantage at check-in, or
- A passenger with zero tolerance for mistakes, who had a negative experience but chose not to follow up with the airline?

On reflection, there's a common root cause, and it's nothing to do with airlines or travel..... :rolleyes:

Crepello how on earth do you manage to get rid of the vertical line
<< here that we mortals have to live with??

The moral of the story is that if a company messes their customers about, the business goes elswhere.

It seems that Jaycee suffered from totally pointless repacking, so that the check in agent could deliver a SLA.

In my case, the company chose to charge a very high fare, failed to deliver the promised service levels and then did not provide an industry wide/standard comment card to facilitate feedback.

Others in the thread report that they have chosen to take the train to avoid the airport experience or because the Flybe service did not meet their needs.

To go back to the thread title, it commented that Flybe was a 'shower' and I have not seen any evidence to the contrary.

WingoWango, the total number of pax you carry doesn't mean a thing. What counts is yield. The more PREMIUM fare pax you carry the better. They're the ones you can't afford to upset and lose to the competition, be it air, rail or car.

Good job the idea was free because it has no value. The problem is in the perception that "a tenner" is all it takes to give you the full service you require. People have fallen in love with the idea that they can fly for less than it costs to park their car. It is obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence that an airline cannot charge £0.99p, £1.99, £11.99, £29.99, £39.99 etc and be achieveing anything like a cost break even, let alone a profit! Those aircraft are high expense capital assests with monthly leasing costs of around $300,000, plus expensive employee infrastructure costs, expensive consumables (fuel) and operating costs (airport fees, overflight and navigation charges, maintenance.) The maths simply do not work at this level. There are cheap fares out there, that are definate loss leaders for the airlines concerned. They have to complete in an environment where the competition can advertise these ridiculously low fares and they have to match the headline numbers to attract the same or similar volumes of site traffic.

All of this can only be achieved by a combination of the "pile 'em high sell 'em cheap" together with yield management whereby the loss leaders fill a proportion of the plane, thereby making the remaining seats of higher value to the needy and desperate, and most importantly the "smell the coffee" approach, whereby (just like supermarkets) an attractive aroma or inducement gets the customers through the door, where it is anticipated that they will be enticed to open their wallets and spend far more than they were anticipating. For airlines this is the ancillary products they offer. Once it was the expensive sandwiches, drinks and catalogue goods. That has now been expanded into a complete dissection of the whole customer service anatomy. Check in on line = pay extra. Check in at the airport = pay extra. Take a limited amount of baggage = pay extra. Pick a seat or a better place in the queue = pay extra. Want legroom = pay extra. Want flexibility = pay a lot extra. Want more baggage allowance at the airport = pay a lot extra. Fail to turn up on time = Pay a lot extra. Once on board the same captive customer promotions are the final opportunity to part the consumer from their discetionary cash.

If you think any or all of this can be satisfied by "an extra tenner" you are not being even remotely realistic. The idea that everyone will flock to your company if you provide a little more, but charge extra is somewhat naive in that everyone might say "Oh yes definetaly," but far too few actually put their money where their mouths are, and make the proposition worthwhile. You only have to look at the low cost premium carriers that tried this in recent years, all of whom have failed! Look at the "full service" carrriers who are now losing money hand over fist because their profit cabins are simply not selling at any sort of satisfactory profit. Few if any airlines are making any profit from seat sales. The profits (where applicable) are coming from the sales of the ancillary products.

The concept that you might "get away" with a bit extra, or can introduce your own rationale into the process is very wishful thinking in an industry where survival is all about the sale of these ancillary products. £10 you are having a laugh!

:ugh: The point of the story is that low margin business models require conditions of contract to be upheld. Customers who refuse to acknowledge this, or demand non-standard provisions, are customers the company is better off without.

You have to move with the times. Back in the 80s competition was lower, prices were higher, staff were plentier and the customer was always right. We've moved on. Margins have given way to volumes, costs have been pared and everything goes through the website. Comment cards? Quaint.

The customer can be right - provided they understand the business model. That's what we're working on here... :rolleyes: