Whingeing Ryanfliers
 

Is it just me or does everyone have to groan and gripe about the poison dwarf's airline?

Ryaniar are only there to make money and the more the better. They do this by operating on a tight margin but perpetually lowering their exposure to risk, increasing revenue and reducing costs. This is only possible becuse they know that the size of the market is significantly greater than the number of passengers they need to make their business model work i.e. they don't rely on any loyalty and expect repeat passengers will take a decision on their travel needs based only on individual need and price. This clearly suits lots and lots of people.

I cannot see the point in moaning about Ryanair as it it a pointless and no doubt fruitless exercise - they won't listen and I doubt they actually care what people say. If it makes more money for Ryanair they will do whatever they need.

Charging for aspects of a journey that generate additional charges for the airline is eminently sensible. If you can check in online - check in online - it's free. If you want someone else to do it for you, and it's not difficult, then pay the charge.

I have never and probably willnever fly with the Ryan because I usually have a choice of airlines and I prefer quality over price. Eveyone has a choice. If you choose ryanair please don't keep on complaining - you know what your going to get before you book your ticket.

^^^^^^^^

What he said

Sure about that?

Check in will no longer be free for all. If you've been following the news and threads on here about their recent plans, from May 20th you'll be charged £5/€5 to check in unless you have bought one of their very cheapest fares on all new bookings.

The fact that they are now charging people for a process that has to be completed in order to travel is what's causing the outrage at the moment... Bundled with their plan to charge a horrendous amount for those who have problems with printing, or forget to bring their passes to the airport. Charging £40/€40 for something that, in reality, only costs 10p or so is nothing shy of daylight robbery.

To cover a couple of your other points - you said you're probably never going to fly with them. Very good that you have a choice of other airlines. However there are people, believe it or not, that need to travel on a budget. Which is why FR appeal to so many. The reason for all the moaning and whinging which is obviously annoying you, is because they are very sneaky in how they add extra charges and fees to jack up the price, making it more costlier than first thought. And not everyone has access to these forums, or pays much attention to big news stories about FR, and don't find this out until after they've been stung - and they are more than within their rights to kick up a fuss about it.

People are always going to whinge and moan about Ryanair, because of the very way they conduct business - sneaking in charges, trying to slipstream their insurance into your booking without you noticing - and you're just going to have to put up with all the whinging. No, Ryanair won't listen and change their ways, but it's not going to stop people trying to get them to listen up.

I totally endorse what Rafelle says and would add that some do not have a choice and also some do not what crap service FR offers.

FR's core customer is someone who can't afford to fly BA, LH, KLM etc and are less inclined to read small print. Often their choice has been greatly reduced because another loco has been forced off a route because FR has come in and carried out a war of attrition using its financial muscle and the better loco has had to withdraw. FR then pushes up prices and often reduces frequency.

In my case I wish to go to Granada if I go anywhere in Spain so am stuck with FR out of Liverpool unless I want to go to Malaga and hire a car, defeating the object of using loco.

Their customer service is appaling, you only find that out after you have a problem, and exhibit amazing inflexibility.

I agreee they are there to make money but I always thought that had to be done ethically otherwise we are back to the bad old days of Rachmanite landlords etc.

I do not knock FR on principal, I do so because I have experienced them as a shyster company, the last time from Murcia was that, the last.

I do not knock FR on principal, I do so because I have experienced them as a shyster company, the last time from Murcia was that, the last.

MOL must be $hitting himself only 63,599,999 passengers left using his service.

al446
 

Well that may be what you experienced, but has it ever occurred to you that the people who write in with their horror stories are always the moaners and that the vast majority of customers (and we're talking big numbers of passengers here pall) never feel the need to put pen to paper because they got from A to B safely and without incident? Has it ever occurred to you that people vote with their feet, so if everyone really was so distraught by their 'customer experience' the airline would no longer exist? Of course it hadn't.

My experience of flying with Ryanair has been nothing but excellent. On many occasions. If something doesn't work out, I'll be sure to check whether it was any less likely to with BA before moaning about it here.

There really is nothing worse than a whinger, so if you don't like it then either fly with someone else or just stay at home. Either way, stop moaning on about 'how appalling' it is. It isn't.

Munnyspinner,

let me point out that ALL businesses are there to make money, the more the better. I do agree, however, that money making could be done more ethically, and that there should be stricter regulation rgarding "hidden extras".

But surely, Ryanair must be doing SOMETHING right, as millions of people still book with them.

I think there´s more than 1 pax turning away from RYR. No significant impact yet, but once the ball starts to roll.........? The airline´s open contempt for its customers is going to cost them eventually.

More like conned/brainwashed in believing they can´t afford to fly BA, LH, KLM. In fact, RYR is often not that much cheaper.

I travel regularly from Maastricht to Birmingham. My options are to travel initially by car to Brussels, Dusseldorf or Weeze. All three are roughly 1 hour´s drive. Amsterdam is too far away and out of the reckoning. I book my trips up to 4 months in advance. For my particular circumstances (bag to check in for instance) I find that once past the initial low fare quotes made by Flybe (DUS) and RYR (Weeze) the end total comes to within a few Euros of the total Brussels Airlines fare (BRU). Brussels Airlines booking process is easy and up front with regard to what you pay. Furthermore, free self-allocated seat upon web check-in, FF program, and above all the feeling that you are treated all the way as a valued customer. Cheapest of all, but only in July and August (for obvious reasons) is Lufthansa. I wonder how many RYR customers who actually want to travel to Dusseldorf in July or August would even consider checking Lufthansa fares? They´ve been brainwashed into thinking there can´t be cheaper than the likes of RYR. But how long for?

Of course we need competition to keep prices realistic, but not in the direction RYR is going. That´s not competition, that´s taking the pi$$ out of your customers.

Look at MPs expenses. Push a good thing too far and the public get's unforgiveably pissed off. There *ARE* limits to how much people will put up with.

Skipness 1E

I agree with your comments.

Public emotion and tipping points are unpredictable, but Ryanair have had a quite run of growth.

It remains to be seen whether the loco model is economically sustainable in the longer term and if not, whether the punters will continue to put their hands in their pockets for extra charges.

Remember when you lads used to complain about British Rail and goodness I was soo fed up listening to whinging about the British Rail sandwich.

IF someone can fly to Malaga for macaroni its a bargain. If the next time they fly they pay a one-er they are still getting a bargain. Isnt it all about perception?

Munnyspinner - Thank you, you have given me a huge laugh this morning.

So much so that I had to read your post twice.

I am really surprised that you took the time to start this thread, defending FR, when you constantly complain on various threads about BA - everything to do with BA, service, rules etc, etc.

Can you explain why you attack BA and defend FR?

Why not? Grounded SLF - you fit into the category I described above.

Nicholas49

Please let me know where in my post above I am "whinging"?

All I was doing was pointing out that the starter of this post has on many, many occasions in various threads on this site constantly complained about BA, and I would like to know how he can defend FR while attacking BA.

I work in the travel business selling airline tickets, and have sold to both the leisure and corporate communities.

My issue with all airlines (not just FR) is regarding transparancy of pricing. The headline fare should now encompass all non optional extras.

Then if passengers want to add on anything else, its up to them.

My specific issue with FR is regarding their attitude to their customers when things do go wrong. You are left high and dry. I have never heard (or read on here) about FR showing any compassion/common sense assistance when things go wrong.
FR do not do business with Travel Agents - they describe Travel Agents as "ticket touts who mark up fares and rip off our customers".
I believe people should have the choice - many business people do not have the time to book their own flights (or the patience to navigate the booking site to ensure they have "ticked" or "unticked" the right boxes)

Once FR announced their "ban" on Travel Agents, we obviously still had forward bookings in the system, which FR had to honour.
When calling their call centre to ask any type of question, once it was established that the booking was made by a travel agent, FR hung up.

Oh - and in my personal experiance, FR have lost approx £98k in bookings that have been switched to other carriers.
We clearly explain to our clients that we can not book FR as FR will not allow us to do so; we then give the client the choice of either booking with FR direct, or travelling with a different airline via ourselves. The vast majority choose an alternative airline.

I know a travel agent - in an area with a large number of private and corporate clients who prefer to pick up a phone to arrange all their travel - who reckons he diverts 15-20 seat/sector sales per day from Ryanair to other carriers, once the clients know that if they want to travel FR they must make the bookings.

He has charged his clients an admin fee for years for booking their loco flights on zero commission, and they are happy to pay.

Ryanair can - presumably - afford to lose travel agency business at the moment, even when that loss is extrapolated to the whole of Europe. But as times get harder it, just like Easyjet, will need the friends and customers it seems determined to lose when it doesn't need them.

Cash reserves can melt away alarmingly fast, and Ryanair is now just as vulnerable to rumour and consequent negative cash flow as the competitors it has tried in the past 18 months to destroy by rumour.

One thing that I have never understood is why FR wants to ban Travel Agents anyway.

So what if they charge a fee, if the client is happy to pay it.

If FR have a seat for sale at £X - why do they care who buys it?

There may be a point if Ryanair's charging was transparent and honest, but it is not. I have long ago stopped flying Ryanair and eventually so will others. O'Leary's hostility to his pilots, staff and customers is ok when you are the little guy fighting the big established legacy carriers. But he is now the big guy and becoming financially abusive.

I don't object to him charging whatever he likes, but his pricing is deliberately deceptive. It amounts to "bait & switch" and there is no legitimate reason for many of his practices. He is also a monumental hypocrite. For example, claiming the DAA and BAA are price gouging and also complaining about the mark ups on fuel and certain airports. His mark up's on using credit cards is at loan shark type rates, but when challenged states that Ryanair can charge what they like.

The most offensive part of Ryanair though is their contempt for the law and the fact that they get away with it. For example, internet based companies are required to have an email address for customer complaints or issues. Ryanair refuses to do so. If you have a legitimate complaint about Ryanair they charge you to address it. If you have to call them, you must pay them to fix the problem. If they fail to deliver the service and you need to claim it on your insurance, they charge you to provide evidence that they failed to provide the service. These are utterly indefensible and amount to stripping away from the consumer any realistic remedy. The only way to address this is to more strictly regulate them. It is a cowboy outfit, run by a cowboy who is making millions by ripping off people. He has set things up in such a way that he rips off large numbers of people with relatively small amounts per person and relies on the fact that most people will shrug and walk away.

Reading this thread this morning since I posted has raised one question with me, was Munnyspinner setting out to be a troll or did that just evolve?

When Ryanair stopped the screen-scraping by the on-line booking engines, there were two main reasons:

1. If people booked via another website, they weren't exposed to Ryanair's other "offers" - i.e. Ryanair weren't going to get any ancilliary revenue for insurance, car hire, hotels, etc., etc. As this is now a very important part of Ryanair's income, it is in their interest to have everyone going through their website and being exposed to these [ahem] "offers"
2. On-line booking sites would quite lay out the fares, leaving the punter with a clear view of when Ryanair was not the cheapest. Ryanair depends to a significant extent on the ignorant believing that they will always be cheapest, and thus anything that exposes that myth as untrue is not in Ryanair's interest

For the same reasons as the above, it is not at present in Ryanair's interest to use travel agents. Travel agents are unlikely to offer insurance, car hire, hotels etc through Ryanair, and any good travel agent will earn their commission by offering alternatives, especially when there are better alternatives available. So, like I say, at present its just not in Ryanair's interests. Come the glorious day, things will hopefully be different!!!

Andy

Check out his previous posts - seems to take an objectionable view on a lot of issues.

Grounded .

Thanks for your comments. But, you have misread my thread. I do not come to praise FR, as I would happily condemn them.

No, I was simply trying to ridicule those who, disappointed by FR's dismal customer relations, don't vote with their feet but whinge about this and that not being fair, then turn up the following week to hand MO'L another wad of notes.

In fairness, since BA so royally P**sed me off I have tried not to darken their door - pretty successfully too. I have also transferred a pile of loyalty points that would otherwaise been heading for the Belligerent Aviators ( you know I wanted to say A**holes, but am too polite).

Whilst I have some ( very little) sympathy for those who don't have a choice of routes, unless you are deliberately trying to avoid a population centre, FR is not a particularly smart way to travel. Yes, its cheap but if that's all you want - don't complain. If you want cheap and good be prepared to pay a bit more, or book early or pick a big city where you will get a choice of airlines. - There are choices. Don't whinge - walk. FR will get message when it hurts them in the pocket.

I think he means objective view !!

MS - I dont believe I misread your post, the basic drift of which (in my understanding) was to stop moaning about FR on these forums.

What surprised me was that you have, on a number of threads, moaned about BA.

I couldnt understand why you object to others moaning about FR when you yourself moan about BA.

Pot...kettle...black...:confused:

When you pay £10 for a flight, you cannot expect an airline to send an empty aircraft out to get you when something goes wrong. I concede, however, that this policy is different from other lo-cos such as easyJet. When there was an almighty schedule cock-up they organised a rescue flight back to London from Geneva (although many other flights were just cancelled).

Passengers have the choice: if they don't want to pay a travel agent's fee and are capable of booking a ticket online, then they can fly with Ryanair. After all, that is the whole point of Internet-based transactions. There is no need for Ryanair to do business with travel agents when their passengers are perfectly capable of booking tickets online.

Finally, as far as contacting customer services is concerned, I recommend taking the initiative and addressing a letter to Michael O'Leary, Chief Executive at their Dublin HQ. When I did this a few months ago I received a reply within a few days signed by the man himself.

Some of you really haven't the slightest idea how a business works! I am not saying Ryanair is the perfect company, but you really do need to be a bit more reasonable.

And that's the point; the average paid for an FR seat per sector (flight) is around 70 Euros (2007/8), plus the cost of genuine Government taxes, ie APD and the like. (This is from memory and unchecked).

On a typical flight, very few people in the aircraft will have paid a very low total price, say <£20.

About the same number, perhaps a little fewer, will have paid upwards of £175 - £200 each.

Part of the con is that most of the so-called "taxes" are simply elements of the cost to FR of carrying you from A to B that they charge separately and call a "tax".

Nearly all airlines (honourable exceptions include Air SouthWest) have picked up on this con trick so that they can claim "low" headline "fares" that appear competitive.

And some people stilll seem to get taken in, eg........ When did anyone last pay that, in total, for a flight on any airline?

I couldn`t Resist. (if you count a flight as a sector)

Looking back at the accounts;

2009
6 sectors to Dublin £10 or less
Return to Porto £15
Return to Riga 0.02p
Return to Milan £12

2008
Morocco £20 return
4 sectors to Dublin £5
Return to Oslo £0.02p
Return to Norway (somewhere) £0.02p

Plenty of others in the £25 to £45 return range.

Play the game, take hand luggage, get a visa delta card and be quids in.

Smala01

Nicholas49 - Hmm - let me look at your points;

1 - "When you pay £10 for a flight, you cannot expect an airline to send out an empty aircraft to get you when things go wrong"
Where does that come from? I never mentioned that scenario. What I would expect from a company who I had a contract with to get me from point a to point b on a specific date is some kind of assistance. Either placed onto another airline that had spare seats, or placed in overnight accomodation until the next flight.

2- In response to my assertion that FR do not do business with travel agents, you stated "Passengers have a choice: if they dont want to pay a travel agents fee and are capable of booking online, then they can fly Ryanair" - You miss the point. They dont have a choice - they have to book with FR direct. What about poor old pensioners who dont have a PC, or people that prefer to do business with an agent?

3 - "Some of you dont have an idea about how business works" - Really. Business works by making a profit. This can be done via transparent pricing if you have confidance in your product and service. There is no need to resort to underhand pricing tactics, to try and confuse the consumer into booking. Think about it this way, how would you feel if you went out to buy a washing machine, advertised for £25.00, only to get to the till and find another £400 in "optional" extras, such as hoses, nuts, bolts, etc...

In regards to Ryanair, they are their own worst enemy. As an independant agency, we use to book around £50k worth of ryanair flights each month direct on their website to match up with our contracted accommodation supplier from various UK airports.
We never screen scraped and because they are not agent friendly and don't want agents selling their tickets anymore, both of us loose out although we now use easyjet who are agent friendly.
I wonder how much revenue they have lost through agents not selling their tickets ???

Sorry Tightslot - didnt realise I was being "out of order" - just having a friendly debate - apologies if I offend.

I too am only trying to put the opposite case because I am little tired of the Ryanair bashing that goes on here. I have no vested interest in the company but I do object to unfounded criticism. I think the comments on 'hidden costs' and 'customer service' above fall into that category. I would be happy to continue the discussion, but if it's not appropriate for the forum then I'll happily refrain!

smala010

OK, ever willing to admit I'm wrong, but are you sure those numbers are the total cost? I looked up some FR prices for late 2009 and early 2010, for weekday flights to places like Glasgow and Dublin fro STN, and from Bristol.

There were flights with NO TAXES, but never cheaper than £16.99 per sector, and with taxes for £0.49 but then never with less than £13.00 added, alhugh sometimes that was on one sector only of a return flight.

From BRS, this, for a flight in Feb 2010, is fairly typical;

Going Out (Web Fare)1 Adult@ 0.49 GBP0.49 GBPTaxes/Fees details32.83 GBPComing Back (Web Fare)1 Adult@ 0.49 GBP0.49 GBPTaxes/Fees details30.05 GBPTotal Cost of Flight63.86 GBP
Excluding handling fee (if applicable)
For a full list of Ryanair fees, please click here

My experience of FR in the past does not match yours, and from trhat bit of research it seems that I'm doing something wrong!

Can you tell us how you find flights on which FR evidently pays the APD for you?

Ryanair has been paying passengers' UK APD for ages. The airline has paid my UK APD (and more) countless times. I could get a list together but I'll simply cite a recent booking from memory: £4 return Stansted-Palma. I paid not a penny more.

Now, this was only possible because I used an Electron card, did not have hold baggage, did not take insurance etc., etc.

I see today (15 May) that similar trips to various destinations in Europe would be available at £6 return if I was interested.

Grounded , I know you are a bit pedestrian with the grey matter but the message was actually,

Stop whingeing and stop flyimg FR - vote with your feet. Half of the whingers regularly pay for the pleasure then moan about their crap experiences.

And I have. Whinge doesn't work

Last time I ate in McDonalds I was not impressed. Unable to book in advance, not met on arrival and shown to my table (which had no table cloth or place setting !), had to queue up at the counter for food, no smoked salmon, fillet steak or even a wine list available.

Next time I eat out I'll go to a proper restaurant and pay six times as much for a meal. Now where is my Mitchellin guide ? :E

But presumably the price displayed on the menu was the price you paid? There were no additional fees for optional extras such as a tray or a straw? And McDonalds would undoubtedly have quickly and correctly dealt with any complaint you might have had about the food or service; they would not brush you off with a "well, what did you expect for £2?".

and michael,

if mcdonald's fleeced their customers so obviously - what should you do?

Whinge from the rooftops or go somewhere else? In either case I really can't see why you would ever go back and be right royally fleeced again. Which, it has to be said is what many folk do at RF. Hate the experience then queue up again and wonder whay they - hate the experience?

Crazy. The only place for MO'L is on an island counting is mountains of cash willingly given to him by the disgruntled pax at FR.

Capot,

Typically Ryanair release their promotional fares about 3 months prior to the departure date. If you book quickly after a new month tranche is released there is generally good availability, especially in the off-peak months.

As someone else alluded to, Ryanair have been subsidising the APD on a number of fares for years. You need to carry hand baggage only and pay with a visa debt card but the cheap deals are readily available.

I should also add that its not just price I’m attracted to - I must have taken 60 sectors in the last few years, none being delayed for more than 30 minutes.

Smala01

No - not a Visa Debit card, but a Visa Electron card. Yes it is a debit card, but Visa Debit and Visa Electron are two very different cards

Just thought I'd clarify