Actually, yes you do. Often

It is if two crews make a pig's ear of their headcounts. You DO do headcounts, yes ?

It is if two crews make a pig's ear of their headcounts. You DO do headcounts, yes ?
 

No we don't. As strange as it may seem it is deemed that the electronic system used at the gate in the UK is adequate. The final check by us at the door is the safety net, so head counts no longer needed. They were found to make a/c miss slots etc. (LHR where its busy). It is actually very easy to muck up head counts. Babies under mums jumpers (yep I've had it), on twin aisled a/c the seat rows are not always even and are often staggered, so its damn easy to mess that one up. Downroute we do the headcount if we can't be sure of the system used for boarding.

So its us that door as safety net for the system that is supposed to be good enough at the gate.

Mid mar mile, it is for security nothing else. and if you are that inebriated that we can tell as soon as look at you then you are a security risk.

6

This thread must be a contender for "longest thread about not much at all" award :rolleyes:

Keep your passport and boarding pass handy until you're in your seat, smile and present it when asked and try to relax. Worrying about how many times you're asked to present your bona-fides is just going to make your life shorter.

I smile and say "Hello" and present my boarding pass when I get on a plane. Reactions vary from a grunt and point toward the rear of the plane through to "Welcome back, Mr Grumpysnail."

Air travel sucks. Rolling your eyes and grumping at people isn't going to make it better and may well make your trip worse.

Interesting.

That strikes me as a security risk.

Most of the airlines I fly with do a headcount.

That piece of information has made me more reluctant to fly with UK carriers.

All it takes is for someone to produce a photoshop boarding pass for the "wrong" flight and the door entry check fails dead. I think the security argument just imploded.

Unbelievable.

If someone did 'create' their own BC they would have to know which seats were free. Which they couldn't do with any degree of certainty.

The system at the gate has its own way of monitoring heads.

No it is not 100% fool proof. Near impossible to exploit though.

The headcount never picked up folk on the wrong a/c that was picked up earlier with double booked seats when 2 people tried to sit in the same seat. The headcount only ever made sure that no one was left behind. The system now covers that.

6

Well done :ok: :ok:

Cheers all,

DIVOSH!

6 chimes, that only works if you pre-assign seats. Think it through love.....

Talking here as a BA 744 driver:

In the olden days of the Classic 747, and the days of headcounts, you could be there a week trying to get the count correct. Each time it was done you would get a different result. 500 passengers and it would be, 499, 503, 498, 512, 489, 499, 500.. yay we can go. Hopeless.

Now the BP has an electronic tag that is read by the machine at the door. That is how the heads are counted in this day and age. So when we are "one down" we know exactly who it is, we know exactly (ish) where on the aircraft his bag is, and we can get that bag off quickly, and get on our way.

Two points:

Why cannot PAX be told at each step along the line, starting with check-in, that "This is your boarding pass. You'll be required to present it as you board the aircraft." There will always be some who won't have it at the ready, but at least the repetition may get through to the majority, especially the non-frequents.

Point two: Concerning aircraft security, I'm surprised that I've never heard from crew who have been on either hijacked aircraft or on aircraft that had a serious threat (such as Richard Reid). I believe - VERY strongly - that if we could ask any of the PAX or crew on any of the 11 September flights, or anyone in the WTC who happened to be looking out the window having their morning coffee and saw AA 11 coming straight at them, about their views on security, they would very likely support strip- and cavity searches for anyone getting within 100 meters of any airplane.

Or how about having a half decent security search in the firstplace. US domestic security pre 9-11 was a joke, a national disgrace.They might say it was recklessly lax to allow box cutters with a bloody sharp blade on an aeroplane.

Now of course it's gone too far the other way as the TSA over reacts on a daily basis.

If you read the thread, people don't see it as a genuine security check any more than confiscating miniscule screwdrivers and 150ml Lynx deoderant. If you're really so hyper worried, ban the duty free bottles you sell becasue so help me God that would do way more damage. I *bet* that you won't be doing that anytime soon We ask for intelligence and consistency and instead we get "body cavity searches". Right.......

Headcounts
 

6c, time for me to make a withdrawel from the memory bank. I was merely trying to show how the thread has spiralled inwards on itself!!!

Now accuracy of headcounts (L337) brings up another memory. I was flying on an internal flight within South Africa with a departure time of 7am (PEAK!). I observed the CC starting the headcount at the back of the plane, moving forwards. After about 12 rows they seemed to loose count and came back to the back and restarted. There were 3 restarts before the count was successfully completed. During the flight I took a quick walk to row 1 and back, there were only 3 empty seats on the whole flight!!! If the plane is more than half full don't waste time counting heads!

One trouble is, very often, every aeroplane in the fleet has a different configuration. On the 744 we have big and little club configurations. Then some seats are u/s and blocked out etc etc. On a 737 or A320 it is a much easier task. On a big aircraft it is a fraught with errors.

Sometimes 2 people are in one seat... Mother and baby. People move whilst the count is taking place, despite being asked not to.

To try and make sense of the current security regulations in aviation is going to drive you mad. It is mostly designed to keep the Daily Mail editor happy as far as I can see. We, as in we the crew, pilots and Cabin crew, have to endure airport security multiple times a day. It is as bad for us as it is bad for you.

I deliberately bid to avoid the USA because of it.

In my airline, 9 out of 10 pax have their boarding passes ready to show when boarding. The ones that have popped it away usually don't take too long to find it. The thing that annoys me is when they say, oh my wife's got it and points over their shoulder. But the wife is at least 10 people back. This seems to happen to me about 3 out of 100 (or about 5 per plane!) I'm not married myself, but why is there this dire need to separate yourself from your missus (and not take your b/c with you?)

If you were married, you would know.;)

Agree :ok:

Right. So the 'security' aspect of checking the BP again at L1 is to identify those passengers who have materialised or dematerialised in the jetway ?

Hey, don't expect me to defend the security procedures in place. We do what the DFT ask of us. Allot of it is barking at best. I suspect that all that is achieved at the door to the aircraft is to allow the cabin crew to direct you to your correct seat, and correct cabin.

Just on my most recent flight a passenger sat in First class, with a coach ticket, and refused to move. Full stop refused. Only with the threat of the Police did he go to his correct seat.

S O E
 

We do pre assign seats love .................:E

Although just in case you misunderstood, I did not mean that it was a UK wide rule, it varies from airline to airline.

6

Well, this is a serious problem and one that requires considerable thought.

However, here is my cunning proposal to solve the issue...free...no charge..gratis.

When approaching immigration, there's a sign that says "Please have your passport and boarding card ready for inspection".
When approaching the gate, there's an announcement saying "please have your passport and boarding card ready for inspection.......".

(Now, I come to my earth shattering suggestion.....)

When that announcement is made why not add"......and keep your boarding card ready for further inspection at the aircraft door for security"..?
Even more cunning, the agent could say " Thank you Mr Strake, have a nice flight and..ooh, please keep hold of your boarding card because they'll need to see it at the aircraft door"

See, brilliant!

The foreigners won't file the card with their passports, the bolshies will have no reason to be..well bolshie. The rest of us can smile, be happy, strum our guitars, hand out peace flowers or generally do what ever we do to try and forget the absolute, total bulls**it ,c**p, pigstink bo****cks beyond belief, that is the commercial flying experience of 2008.