Things I always wanted to know as a PILOT
 

10 questions Ive always wanted to know the answers to -

1. SLFs sometimes wont lock an aircraft toilet door yet theyll unfailingley lock it in a public dunny. Why?

2. Most pax cant be bothered watching the Pre-TO Emergencey brief while the intellegent few do. This usualy determines who most likely will be still alive after the evac and wholl be dead. Is it a macho thing to ignore the brief or somethin?

3. Why do SLFs complain about the legroom and pitch of cattle-class seats? Your stuffed in seats like sardines in return for a lower fare and Economy class is named because its exactley that - ECONOMY!

4. Why do pax insist on flying with carriers who have dangerus safety records? Do cheap airfares override survival instincts? Would you do the same and ride with a dangerus bus or taxi company?

5. Why the rush to disembark? You could be standing in the isle for 20mins if the Manifest isnt accurate or the Traffic guy is an inexperienced snot-nosed kid.

6. Is an aircraft toilet realy more complicated to use than a reguler dunny? The flush button is in the same spot like any other thunderbox, and the tap/sink doesnt require a PhD to figure out.

7. If you slop up your dunny at home you clean it up. So why do you expect the stewardesses to clean YOUR ungodley mess up? :rolleyes:

8. Do some of you think pilots fly through severe turbulence because we WANT to?

9. Why do you believe a smooth greazey touchdown on landing is somehow the measure of a pilots total skill?

10. If you depart early you arrive early at your destination. Why is there ALWAYS the bloodey annoying 1% who insist on boarding at the last minute after everyone else has been on-board for the last 20?

I wish I could have had the answers to those questions myself! Some people do make it unpleasant for others sometimes by not cleaning after themselves. :yuk:

Ah, he's back. How's the airboos? :ok:

Here's my tuppence worth.

3. Seat pitch. That old chestnut. Most non ff pax have no idea about this, in fact many believe the pitch is set by the manufacturer, i.e "oh, if you fly on a boeing 737 you won't get much legroom". They don't know the seat pitch is set by each specific airline.

In addition, most non ff pax purchase an airline ticket ASSUMING no airline would be dumb enough to put seats so close together that it is impossible to sit in them. Unfortunately airlines can and do.

In regards to ff pax, just look at the success of premium economy classes or similar. People want a comfy seat, but do not really see a need for full business class. I personally just want a comfy seat with some legroom, I don't need champagne, priority boarding, enhanced meals, free alcoholic drinks etc.. Unfortunately, up until recently, the only choice has been cattle class or the super luxury of business class.

I happily choose airlines with larger legroom generally anyway, as firstly, it means there are fewer seats per given amount of space, which means that de-planing can be quicker, and there is more space in overhead lockers. Go on a charter with 28 inch pitch throughout, and you'll regularly find insufficient space overhead for even a modest amount of carry-on.

4. I agree. Sadly most pax can't easily access safety records, so they cannt make an INFORMED decision.

10. The clue is in the end of your question. I see no reason to pre-board a flight lasting eight hours in order to sit in my seat early (for 20 mins or more). In my experience, nowadays, airlines like to board pax early, so they can pull back from the gate on time (keeping their stats looking good), and then once the doors are closed, announce;"sadly ATC have changed our slot to approximately two hours from now, but we're hoping to leave earlier (yeah right!) so had you all board the aircraft now." That is exactly why ff pax don't board early. When I fly club, I never understand the notion of early boarding, to me it is common sense to stay out of the plane for as long as possible. Most ff pax learn from airline lies.

2. You know, when I'm on a really cramped econ short haul flight, I just chuckle when I hear crew say the main concern of the airline is our safety. If that were the case, we wouldn't have seats at wing exit rows, and we wouldn't be crammed in like sardines. Personally, I always watch the safety brief, and check the number of rows to exits in front and behind.

There is a more serious side to this, I've heard many people say this before. Many non ff pax believe if the plane is going down, then they'll all die anyway, and the safety brief is just to make people feel they will be safe, whereas in reality, they'll all be gonners. I know that isn't the case, and that somewhere between 70 and 80 percent survive aircrashes overall, but many folks do think that most people get killed in air crashes, regardless of the safety briefing.

1) Pass
2) 'Cos I've seen the content (which doesn't change) 100 times before. In my case, I already looked on the way in where the exits were, and had a quick think where I'm going if, and usually count seat backs to the exit. I don't need to be told how to put on a lifejacket, or use the oxygen mask (again). Hope that doesn't sound too arrogant!
3) Because economy still costs reasonable money, and I'm compelled to fly economy by the penny pinching accountants where I work... I'm going to do everything I can to get the best out of that.. so I'll fly with the best economy I can find!
4) Do my best not to!
5) Because if you've been sat in 'economy' for 20+hrs, you'd do anything to stand up, or otherwise get out of that metal tube :) Also, (particularly short haul), I tend to fly hand baggage only.. added incentive to get off and running.
6) Never had a problem with it
7) I don't.. the inconsiderate few I'm sure
8) See 7 - I thought you magic it up on demand whenever I either have a cup of tea, or go to the dunny ;)
9) Well, it's the most visible/measurable for us poor SLF. But I do appreciate that a greaser is not always the aim.
10) I have no idea.. would like to slap them myself..

Hope that was of some help :ok:

Re 4

How am I to know, unless there has been a publicised incident, whether this airline is safer than the other?
Are you really saying that lo-co = unsafe?
Where's your evidence of this? or are you of the school that thinks anyone who books loco is not worth bothering about?


Re seat pitch.
Some of the legacy carriers have the worst Y seat pitch, unfortunately many of us are forced into these as our employers won't pay the hugely over inflated C fares on short haul. Like the earlier comment, I want decent leg room (I wear leg 37ins trousers) - and will pay for it BUT without all the other cr*p.

I think that illustrates the point very well. Naturally, every pax want more space for as little cash as possible (irrespective of who pays) but by linking space to 'luxury' it allows the carrier to separate the space and the cost. If they just charged a bit more, then more would take it but that would lower the overall number of seats and revenue.

For enough years, they have been able to get people to pay the Y fares and put up with it, so they have no incentive to change. AA tried to change this a few years ago (about 5 or 6, I think). As I recall, they made a huge advertising push about giving more leg room in Y, including long haul, of about 2 inches or possibly more. The adverts showed rows of seats being physically taken out. A couple of years later, I read (in PPRuNe) that they were quietly putting the rows back in because it had not generated enough extra bookings. QED.

I like the 10 questions, some of which might be tongue in cheek?

1. Not locking loo door: I didn't know they did this.
2. Not watching saftey demo: I have always been mysitifed by the way they ignore it. Even though I know it, I always watch. The idea that some folks are avoiding thinking about a crash seems likely.
3. As per longer answer above: Price wins but complaining has become a SOP for pax.
4. Dangerous carriers: My guess is that 99% of pax do not know where to find safety statistics and airlines don't use this in their advertising. The CAA do not publicise this. Also, Price Wins.
5. Rush to disembark: Herding instinct.
6. Looks as if the flush button has to have a flashing neon ring around it.
7. Messing up the loo: Standards of public behaviour have been dropping for decades.
8. Pilots love turbulence: They certainly do! :p
9. Smooth touchdown: They do not know any better.
10. Late boarding: Again, I think we may see examples of fear and those who do not want to get on the machine, even though they want to get to their destination.

I'll try answering 5.

On Monday morning, I was travelling out hand baggage only, so I selected my seat online right at the front of the aircraft. I knew there was a train leaving the airport 20 minutes after my flight was due to land, there was a one hour wait for the next one.

So I wasn't going to be waiting for bags and getting that train was important. I managed to be first off the plane and after clearing immigration made the train with two minutes to spare.

For many of us, the plane is only part of the journey and we're keen to get moving on the next part ASAP.

Slasher, learn to love and respect your customers. Without them, no job no pay!

1. Never seen this, but then again I’ve only taken 1,000+ commercial flights

2. If it is so important, how come a deadheading captain and FO opposite me talked very loudly all the way through it recently and the CC didn’t intervene?

3. Because the airlines (e.g. your employer) never show the reality in their advertising, only beautiful things

4. Code share is one reason – you book one carrier and travel on another

5. (a) most people don’t like planes and can’t wait to get off them, (b) some peeps have places to go to – e.g. FF with hand baggage

6. Please explain this to your FO next time, he is used to automatics on an Airbus

7. Have you got a toilet obsession???? On second thoughts, I guess Australia only got proper dunny’s recently, so the novelty hasn’t worn off yet :}

8. No, we think some of you are idiots who fly through severe turbulence because you departed at night with wx radar u/s or switched it off in VMC (even though convective activity was forecast) and also wrote off the nose radome due GR

9. I don't judge pilot's skill on greasers, which are just good luck :}

10. (a) because the exec lounge is 20 minutes from the gate and the gate staff called the lounge at the last minute, (b) because the FIDS in the exec lounge froze, the lounge doesn’t make calls and no one form the gate cross checked and also (c) your First/biz class passengers pay a big premium to board later

(5) Think on, fellow pax. My favourite example of this thinking is any inbound from Rep. of Ireland. In my experience you never get an airbridge, but a free bus ride round the airport (never understood why). Last off the plane = last on the bus. Last on the bus = first off the bus. Up up and away.

No 7
 

The difference, and beleive me, this doesn't excuse it, is that at home, I have a discreetly placed brush in each of our dunnies, for cleaning up, if there has been "a moment".

With what am I supposed to clean it in the on-board facilities, in rhe never happened case that I am forced to go on board, after curry / guinness / both ?

Now, I can honestly say that I have never done a no. 2 on a plane, always making a point of doing it before leaving home / hotel / lounge, but I have certainly been in there after some other dirty b:mad:d has !

Could I suggest placing toilet paper in the bowl before attempting a number two. Makes it go down like a spoonful of sugar does the medicine.

I have seen an F/A who used to carry a can of Spray and Cook with her which she used to spray the loo bowls with to make things easier for herself when it came to cleaning up after those with less than perfect toilet abilities.

It's rarely the biz/first/FF pax who are late to the gate. It's Mr and Mrs Jones who can't understand that the flight needs to go when the airline says and not when they have finished drinking/shopping/visiting the wrong gate/gates because the tv screens and signs aren't clear enough and they need handholding to the gate/being last through security because they thought they would visit all the shops landside before making their way through at -15mins, I could go on, but as I said it's rarely the premium pax, so rare is it that I can clearly recall the times it has been! :{

Re 2 - I've always thought that some people want others to know that they are a frequent, experienced traveller as this somehow makes them look richer / more important / not scared of flying or whatever.
They do this by reading a book, newspaper or chatting with friends or colleagues etc. rather than watching the safety demonstration. Sometimes quite conspicuously :)
They are missing out in my view (either that or I've just developed an unhealthy obsession with the animated, coffee drinking, brunette in the BA version :ok: )

In answer to question 5, have a look here:

http://www.ukairportdelays.co.uk/Immigration

Also look at some of the comments from pax about offending airports immigration contols.

Things I've always wanted to know as a WHATEVER

1. Where do pilots learn how to spell and punctuate?

2. Where do pilots learn how to spell and punctuate?

3. Where do pilots learn how to spell and punctuate?

4........

Number 4
 

The only reason I have done it in the past has been after a personal risk assessment and the decision that I want to be where the plane will take me. I go into it with my eyes open. The risk assessment usually boils down to the fact that even an airline with a bad safety record is probably safer than the alternative.

But I'll go along with Paxboy that 99% of people probably don't even think about it.

With regards to question 8

Not enough of you fly through severe turbulence now. Pilots seem to squawk anytime they go near a fluffy white cloud now.

You fly through turbulence cos the planes are built to take it...and it stops passengers getting up and messing up the washrooms that you worry about.

Ah well, if you're THAT experienced, without having to look it up, you should be able to tell us... if you sit in seat 6E, which is your nearest exit...

on a 737-800?
Airbus A320?
Airbus A321?

If you can't answer those question, I don't want to have to climb over to you from 6F if the **** does hit the fan. I've flown more than 500 times, I can't answer those questions, and I always pay attention. Sometimes I even read the safety card too.

Please pay attention, it's not done simply for insurance purposes and it is aircraft specific. The life you save might not just be your own, it might be mine.

Try quoting the whole sentence:
Sitting at my desk - no idea (approximately, 6 is about mid way, from memory the overwings are around row 14, and fronts row 1 (obviously) in pretty much all those aircraft). By the time I'm strapped into seat 6E I would know. I also pay attention to the door operation (do you?) and if I can spot it, where the portable oxygen is (just in case).

Anyway, the 'safety brief' doesn't tell me what you ask. What it does tell me, at least on those aircraft is that: there are 2 exits at the front, 2 overwing, and 2 at the back, how to use the oxygen mask (pull down sharply), where to find the lifejacket (under the seat), the brace position, to remove my high heels before using the exit slide, wear my safety belt at all times, follow the strip lighting on the floor, listen to the cabin crew instructions, turn off my mobile phone, and any other electronic equipment as it may interfere with the aircraft navigation systems, usually the names of the cabin crew, captain and first officer. Did I miss anything? Oh yes, there's a whistle and a light on the lifejacket, I pull the tags to inflate (NOT inside the aircraft), and blow into the mouthpiece to top up.

I guess my point is that just because I don't hang on every word of the show, doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it - I'm well aware that those with a plan tend to be the ones that live.

Tightslot,

I know about the evacuation in 90 seconds and so on. But, me memeory serves me very well. Several years ago, before EZY et.al., airlines like BA did NOT have a row of seats over the wing exits at all. Due, I guess to increased cost pressures, seats were added in, and so now there are rows of seats at over wing exits on most airlines.

In fact, the history was, I think like this, the British airtours Manchester runway disaster highlighted the difficulties of escape from wing exits, and this then lead to overwing exit rows being removed completely. Following on from this over several years, airlines gradually decided those rows should really still be there (for financial reasons), and put them back in, with a marginally bigger gap between the rows.

Nobody will ever convince me that putting a row of seats adjacent to an overwing exit is a good idea.

Until it changes, i will be re-assured to know that pax safety is NOT the main concern of any airline. Making a profit is.

Tightslot
It seems counter-intuitive but a similar effect is seen in corridors and door ways. Placing an obstacle upstream of the opening or some railings along the middle of the corridor speeds up the flow, something to do with reducing the tendency of people to jam themselves together.
As for the briefing, experience has shown me two advantages.
1, Airline equipment differs, e.g does the life jacket have one red toggle or two. tapes to tie or a Fastex buckle?
2, Cabin crew remember you taking notice of their briefing when you need to ask a favour later in the flight. :ok:
Question for frequent fliers: What has changed in BA's briefing recently?

1. They can't figure out the lock?

2. Lots of reasons, mostly already covered. I can well believe that some people have enough problems flying without listening intently to "what to do when we crash". Since starting to read Pprune I've started paying more attention - as a courtesy to the crew, mostly. And in the hope that it will encourage others to do likewise.

3. Cos we would pay 10% more to have 10% more legroom?

4. "Do cheap airfares override survival instincts?" Even an airline with a bad safety record is probably still safer than driving to the airport.

5. "Why the rush to disembark?" Beats me. I stand up when the people in the aisle nearby start moving.

9. Greasers - some people really do think that you "slam it down" because you want to.

Don't forget that, whilst some pax blame the FC for 'slamming it down just for fun'. If it is a greaser - they presume that auto-land did it. :rolleyes:

Thanks for your answers so far - Im learnin a lot! :ok:

I'll respond in detail to your replys soon. I did think though
that pax were more savvyer with regards to flyin with
highly-publicised dangerus outfits.

PS Reds to answer your question the airboos sucks! :mad:

RevMan2

Oh, hahahahaha!! My thoughts too! :D :D :D

(I learnt to count from the Hosties. "Hmmm, let me see... I've done 1, 2, 3, no hang on - FOUR of them..." :E ;) )

10SecondSurvey - When and which aircraft did BA NOT have a row of seats by the emergency exit?
I ask as I often flew as a pax on the 707, VC10, Trident and Vanguard and I'm fairly sure they all had seats in the emergency exit rows, on the Standard VC10 it was something like row 9.

Parabellum

I can't remember which airline (and it would have been any, some or all of BA, AF, AZ, KL, LH probably), but I do recall when I started paxing in the late 70s that the overwing exits didn't have seats next to them.

But its a long time ago :)

Thousands of miles but I still pull out the briefing card and listen to the brief...................I live in fear that the CC might tell me off for not paying attention :uhoh:
Always lock the toilet door.............but have been on flights where people didn't even know how to get in let alone lock it and get out again when finished!!!
I try and fly with the 'legacy' carriers - because I trust their maintenance - I assume that the majority of pilots they have employed are able to fly the aircraft!
I have no idea why the rush to disembark - and I have in fact told people standing before the aircraft has reached the gate to "sit down" in no uncertain terms-they affect my safety if they are standing beside me:mad:
I don't care what sort of landing it is - as long as I get on the ground safely!
Re the late boarding passengers - could be totally eliminated if the gate was closed prior to boarding - any body coming later.............tough, unless it is from a delayed flight from the same carrier.

The BA safety briefing said (last time I flew a month or so ago) that 'The captain and crew are here for your safety'. Now I always thought that the Captain's job was mainly to fly (or when the PF is the F/O, do the second pilot's job) the aircraft. After all, if the aircraft doesn't leave the gate, it's much less likely that there will be any safety problems.....

My similar question:- why can't people walk on the plane, shove their luggage in the locker and sit down, allowing the plane to board and be off in 10 mins flat? - instead of parading their asses around and sizing everyone else up, until finally, in a deft coup de grace when everybody's sitting down at last, get up again to steal a march on the competition with some final rummaging in the briefcase for the umpteenth time. Eventually it will be only the A1 alpha male left standing, he who will lead us into the New Age of Enlightenment onboard the plane for the course of the 90 mins of the flight ... until the seatbelt signs go off and The Pack makes a rush for the toilets ... :ugh:

LOL!
 

That for me is one of the last great mysteries. No matter how much time people have spent in the terminal building/lounges with plenty of access to bathrooms, once the seat belt signs go, there is always a handful of passengers dashing for the toilets immediately... :}

Another thing. Arriving at the gate 15 minutes late only having to further delay departure because there are still people showing up at the last minute, usually with two duty free bags plus the odd coffee/big mac in their hands is usually quite annoying. I has always amazed me that in the case of a delayed inbound aircraft, still the odd passenger on the next flight almost manages (and often does manage) to miss it, even though you would expect them to be standing ready to board at once by that time...:rolleyes:

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Q2. I'm with Mark1234 on this - do my own cks on way in. But always look at the CC while they do their thing - it's a courtesy thing and I know how I would feel talking to a load of tops of heads.

Q9. Can't remember the last time I did a greaser, but then I fly freight and the parcels neither care nor complain.

I remember a BAC 1-11 in the seventies which had a backwards-facing row of seats at the over-wing exit(s), so there was a clear access. These seats were very popular with families as it allowed parents and kids to sit facing each other.

I recall travelling on a Trident LHR~HAM in December 1975 that had an experiment with a few rows of rear facing seats at the front of the Y cabin. At check-in, I was asked if I would sit there and fill in the questionnaire. Naturally I did and it was all very comfortable.

My guess as to why they have never made them standard around the world is that, they would have to tell folks that it is safer that way in an emergency stop or incident. THEN they would have to explain to folks why they had not reversed the seating years ago! :ooh:

I'm sure that I remember taking a charter flight in (I think) a 1-11, in the late '70's. The front half of the cabin had rear facing seats, the back half frontward facing. Not sure if this was a common configuration though, it was incredibly cramped, so I suppose it could have been just for the charter market.

Me too, I think Dan Air may have had the rear-facing 1-11 seats.

Also I am sure I didn't dream it, but the meal was locked inside the seat in a little integral 'larder' just above the tray table. Dread to think what Health and Safety would make of that today. Or maybe it was a dream.

Paxboy, the Trident at MAN viewing park has this config if you want t nosey. Gorgeous restoration. Sorry for thread drift.