Just another view
 

I'm only responding to those things I do/apply to me (some of them are surprising, like people not locking the door):

2. I don't think it's a "macho" thing for anyone. Crashes are super rare, and as someone else said, I feel (however statistically incorrectly) that crash = we all die. It sounds like there are statistics that pax who pay attention are more likely to survive, but I've been a FF for well over a decade and didn't know that til coming to this forum. If those statistics were in the opening safety briefing, I bet a lot more pax would pay attention!

4. Airline safety records aren't very accessible. You only hear about major incidents from the media, and major incidents are extremely rare and not the true/only gauge of an airline's safety. I have no idea where to find other types of safety reports other than FAA/NTSB (I'm American) websites which are incredibly user-unfriendly and full of industry jargon the layperson can't get past. If someone published a safety report that actually compared airlines AND that pax could easily understand, no question that would affect their decisions as to who to fly with. For example, from reading this forum I would think twice about flying a SE Asian airline. If it became clear from posts on the Rumours forum that my usual airline at home was unsafe, that would certainly affect my next airfare purchase.

5. I sit til the last possible moment! Lazy I guess :)

7. I will certainly do a basic wipe-down if I make a mess, as a courtesy for the next pax, but I don't generally clean up a public toilet. I don't mean this in a bad way, but it's someone else's actual job (whether it's in the CC's job description I don't know, but if it is sorry to say but they should do it and not complain).

10. As someone said, we're about to be stuck on the damn thing for flight-time plus whatever undisclosed amount of time the pilots know we'll be sitting on the tarmac after scheduled departure time (for those on-time stats). Thanks but I'll be at the bar :)

By the way, is there some place we get to pick your minds about why CC do the things they do that mystify us pax?!

Hmm, not necessarily. This came up as the first result on a quick Google search:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/operator/

And it seems there is more for the ones that are interested. I would reckon that people just can't be bothered because it would involve searching for information that is not instantly available at their convenience. It would be a nice gesture for the airlines to put a link to such databases on their website, but I guess they know pax are not that fussed about it and if you have had a serious accident as an airline why would you bother doing so? :rolleyes:


PSA

I agree that most pax are not interested in safety stats (the ones that read PPRuNe are probably not a representative sample :)), but even for those of us who are interested, it's very difficult to draw meaningful comparisons.

This is because air accidents are very rare - in large part due to enormous efforts from all those involved in aviation to make it (and keep it) so safe. Because they are rare events, you need to go back a very long way to gather enough data for a statistically valid analysis, probably more than 25 years. The trouble is that over the course of 25 years, everything changes. The aircraft fleets, the pilots flying them and the safety systems associated with them are all very different.

But what we want to know is: will my flight next week be safer if I travel with operator A or operator B. The 'fact' that operator A has a better record over 25 years, doesn't necessarily tell us about how much safer their operation is today.

In an earlier post, I gave an example of choosing to fly Lufthansa as opposed to Garuda. I'm too lazy to analyse the stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if they suggested that Lufthansa is the safer choice. But I've no way of knowing whether that's because they have more modern aircraft, better or better trained pilots - or if it's because Lufthansa operate the majority of their flights in Europe to airports equipped with modern navigational aids and in relatively benign weather. If it's the potential for tropical storms that is the problem, then the 'dangerous' choice I've made is to travel to Jakarta, but I may not have much control over that!

Also PV, as you pointed out in that other thread, the most critical part of any flight is rotation and landing. The transition from the lower to higher flight levels, and the reverse, is the time when you are much more likely to encounter problems.

If you fly long haul direct by an airline with a supposedly poorer record OR by taking two or three shorter flights - all with carriers thought to be the safest operating companies - you will still be at higher risk by taking multiple flights.

Accordingly, generalities prevail.

This is intended to be a serious response : I believe this has to do with the natural hearding instinct, there are studies which indicate that persons exiting an area through a constriction (door, window etc.) in a panic situation do so in bursts and not constantly. This is a paper based on a study using mice here, and reading this, my conclusion is that having the seats in the exit row disrupts this hearding behaviour - encouraging queueing, leading to a more consistent flow rate through the exit portal.

On a similar line, I remember watching a study of "exiting a room in a panic situation through double doors", and placing a barrier in line with the centre of the exit portal, significantly increased the throughput.

That all makes sense drichard. The throughput of vehicles on the M25 (UK motorway) is improved by lowering the speed limit from 70mph to 60 or even 50.

If there is an 'open run' to the portal, then people will rush in and impede each other. If there is a small barrier, then they have to slow to negotiate it and that staggers the flow and allows people at the portal to exit more smoothly. This completes the feedback loop and the frequency of people passing through the portal increases.

I'm sorry, I've heard the argumentation thing about seats at exit rows actually speed up evacuation, but I think it's tenuous to say the least, and oh how awfully convenient for the beancounters - don't you think.

Why do exit rows have more space at them than regular rows, why do some exits have no seats at them (like the main doors (front and rear))?? If the theory that wide open evacuation spaces hinder passengers leaving, and so rows of seat are added 'for safety reasons' then why do they leave so much space around some doorways and not others. It just doesn't wash, and the evidence supporting extra exit row seats is flimsy to say the least, and, I believe it has been stated would only be applicable in certain scenarios.

No, let's just get real, seats are added in to wing exit rows for financial reasons. It has b*gger all to do with making evacuation quicker, or passengers safer.

Rear facing seats.
 

Quote

Re rear facing seats. The RAF transport fleet was always fitted out with this configuration, allegedly on safety grounds. Is this still the case? The theory was that in an impact you would be cushioned by the seat rather than slamming into the one in front.

I recall in the 70's flying to Nicosia in Cyprus that the Trident "Sunjet" had rear facing seats at Emergency exits.

Quote:

---

The two crew members who had suffered serious impact injuries were able to perform their emergency duties effectively. Passengers who incurred impact injuries were ambulatory during the evacuation. One of the
cabin crew, seated in the same general area as the crew and passengers who incurred serious impact injuries, was not injured. This cabin crew's seat was aft-facing; the other seats were forward-facing.

---

While it doesn't prove anything, in this case at least facing aft does seem to have helped.

I guess it would be quite a challenge for the caterers to get the trolleys in to the galley if they put seats across the front and rear main doors. :rolleyes:

The beancounters would all too happy to eliminate the caterers, the galley, and one more loo, in favour of more seats. Don't give them any ideas.

Irritating pax? How about OTT pilots then? Fly the a/c and leave the pax to those who's job it is to sort them. As Captain, you are needed when c.c report incidents to you. Otherwise.....!

HTH. :}

One question I always ask when i am the pilot.

Can I have a window seat please?

Always works

Apropos the emergency exit topic, I seem to remember BA blocking doors (2) on its 747-136s in order to fit extra seats (or did I imagine that?). Didn't KLM do something similar?
An earlier poster commented that when flying Club he didn't board early. For me, though, one of the pleasures of travelling Club World is taking my seat on the upper deck at the earliest opportunity (particularly if it means getting out of the crowded Terraces lounge in T4) and having time for a glass or two of champagne before pushback!

10 answers
 

1. Beats me, I always lock it because otherwise THE LIGHT WONT GO ON...
2. Because we may have heard it 1000 times +1 (I always look at the nearest emergency exit and count the rows though, also have a look at the writen info provided)
3. Because even it is economy it is still not really a bargain (on long haul at least) and why not getting the better deal? If your airline provides 30 cm and 5 degree and another 40 cm and 15 degr. I know which to choose for a comparable price... (There goes your salary...)
4. I don't insist on doing that. Unless UA, BA LH Ek has bad safety...? I live in a city which is serviced by most of the major airlines.
5. Beats me
6. Seems to me that the flushes are different in various models and types though, apparently you have never used one (see also #1)
7. I clean it up myself
8. Sure. Absolutely. They actually ask the CC if the just provided the drinks before they do that... For the same reason you are asking these questions
9. Absolutly! What else?
10. Maybe because the connecting flight of your airline was bloody late...?

10 questions Ive always wanted to know the answers to -

1. SLFs sometimes wont lock an aircraft toilet door yet theyll unfailingley lock it in a public dunny. Why?

NO CLUE, BEATS THE CRAP OUT ME.

2. Most pax cant be bothered watching the Pre-TO Emergencey brief while the intellegent few do. This usualy determines who most likely will be still alive after the evac and wholl be dead. Is it a macho thing to ignore the brief or somethin?

NOPE, FOR SOME IT'S STUPIDITY OR IGNORANCE, FOR OTHERS IT MIGHT BE THE THIRD OR FOURTH FLIGHT OF THE DAY AND THE 20TH OF THE WEEK AND WE FIGURED OUT WHERE THE NEAREST EXIT IS AS WE GOT ON, AND WE KNOW WHERE THE OXYGEN/VEST/SEAT CUSHION IS AND HOW TO USE THEM. PERSONALLY, I'M NEVER COCKY WHEN IT COMES TO THE EMERGENCY BRIEFING. I DON'T MAKE A POINT OF IGNORING IT, BUT AS FAR AS UNDIVIDED ATTENTION GOES, I MIGHT BE GOING ON 2 HOURS SLEEP AND I'D RATHER BE GETTING SOME SHUT-EYE AT THIS POINT IN MY DAY.

3. Why do SLFs complain about the legroom and pitch of cattle-class seats? Your stuffed in seats like sardines in return for a lower fare and Economy class is named because its exactley that - ECONOMY!

BECAUSE OUR COMPANIES' TRAVEL POLICIES DICTATE THAT WE SIT IN THAT CLASS OF SEAT AND, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, THAT SEAT IS MOST UNCOMFORTABLE AFTER 3 HOURS. I'LL DO ANYTHING I MORALLY CAN TO GET THE BEST SEAT OF A BAD SELECTION. PART AND PARCEL OF BUSINESS TRAVEL TODAY. I DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, HOWEVER, BECAUSE THAT GETS YOU NOWHERE.

4. Why do pax insist on flying with carriers who have dangerus safety records? Do cheap airfares override survival instincts? Would you do the same and ride with a dangerus bus or taxi company?

SORRY, AT THIS POINT, CAN I JUST ASK, IS SPELLING ABILITY A REQUIREMENT FOR AIRLINE PILOTS?

5. Why the rush to disembark? You could be standing in the isle for 20mins if the Manifest isnt accurate or the Traffic guy is an inexperienced snot-nosed kid.

BECAUSE WE'RE SICK OF SITTING DOWN. STANDING UP FEELS REALLY GOOD - SEE ANSWER TO QUESTION 3. AND WE MAY ALSO BE IN A RUSH TO GET SOMEWHERE, LIKE HOME, A MEETING, OR ANOTHER GATE.

6. Is an aircraft toilet realy more complicated to use than a reguler dunny? The flush button is in the same spot like any other thunderbox, and the tap/sink doesnt require a PhD to figure out.

NOPE. DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT HERE. THUNDERBOX?

7. If you slop up your dunny at home you clean it up. So why do you expect the stewardesses to clean YOUR ungodley mess up? :rolleyes:

I DON'T.

8. Do some of you think pilots fly through severe turbulence because we WANT to?

NOPE, BUT YOUR COMPANY MIGHT.

9. Why do you believe a smooth greazey touchdown on landing is somehow the measure of a pilots total skill?

I DON'T.

10. If you depart early you arrive early at your destination. Why is there ALWAYS the bloodey annoying 1% who insist on boarding at the last minute after everyone else has been on-board for the last 20?

ER, MAYBE THEY WERE DELAYED ON AN INBOUND FLIGHT AND ONLY JUST MADE IT. SEE RESPONSE TO QUESTION 5.

9> I think, for larger jets, it's because mostly everything else is autopilot, and if it isn't, passengers are almost always awake for the landing but not necessarily awake for the rest of the flight.

1. SLFs sometimes wont lock an aircraft toilet door yet theyll unfailingley lock it in a public dunny. Why?

I've never done this, so can't comment. I do sometimes wonder why some people don't do this in pubs and at festivals, although those people are more likely to be intoxicated. Either that or they are the same people.

2. Most pax cant be bothered watching the Pre-TO Emergencey brief while the intellegent few do. This usualy determines who most likely will be still alive after the evac and wholl be dead. Is it a macho thing to ignore the brief or somethin?

I do, but I've travelled with people who don't and they are either a) scared of flying and doing whatever they can to take their mind off the situation, which doesn't exactly make sense - if they're scared flying they're probably scared of crashing and I'd have thought the safety briefing would be of use to them, but apparently not the case. b) they've flown the same route, on the same aircraft, so many time it's pretty much a commute to them and feels like getting on a bus, they know where the exits are, pretty much always sit in the same seats and don't fell the need to watch. c) they're idiots.

I will confess to not having read the card on my last couple of flights BUT I was in a bulkhead seat and the card was too far away to reach without getting up, and the seatbelt sign was on, so I was in a dilemma as to whether to stand up and get it with the cabin crew stood right next to me, or to just listen to them and watch the video.

3. Why do SLFs complain about the legroom and pitch of cattle-class seats? Your stuffed in seats like sardines in return for a lower fare and Economy class is named because its exactley that - ECONOMY!

This is why I don't travel economy on long flights..

4. Why do pax insist on flying with carriers who have dangerus safety records? Do cheap airfares override survival instincts? Would you do the same and ride with a dangerus bus or taxi company?

Never done it knowingly. I found out one airline I used didn't have a great safety record, but I didn't know until a few years later and they were the only option for domestic flights in that country. I'd rather be as safe as possible whatever the form of transport, hence I don't get unlicensed cabs either..

5. Why the rush to disembark? You could be standing in the isle for 20mins if the Manifest isnt accurate or the Traffic guy is an inexperienced snot-nosed kid.

Never understood this, cannot stand people doing it. :* Mainly can't stand the people who have to get up before the 'plane has stopped, even if they have another flight to get to or whatever, what's the point? I've been on flights where people have been standing up, bent over, for 30-45 minutes (at least it felt like that) while we were getting to the terminal. Myabe I'm lazy, but I prefer to be sitting down until the doors are open.

6. Is an aircraft toilet realy more complicated to use than a reguler dunny? The flush button is in the same spot like any other thunderbox, and the tap/sink doesnt require a PhD to figure out.

Not really, no. I mean, the delay in the flush can be a tad confusing but other than that, it's all self explanatory. The lighting can be terrifying though, maybe some people are so scared to see how bad they look in the mirror that they become confused and incompetent?

7. If you slop up your dunny at home you clean it up. So why do you expect the stewardesses to clean YOUR ungodley mess up?

I don't, and I'm guessing these are the same people who think they can make a mess in any 'public' type toilet and someone else should clean up after them.

8. Do some of you think pilots fly through severe turbulence because we WANT to?

No. I sympathise with the people who are scared by it, but never thought it was deliberate.

9. Why do you believe a smooth greazey touchdown on landing is somehow the measure of a pilots total skill?

I don't, it's nice when it happens, it can be a bit un-nerving when it's a bit rocky, but I know it's not everything.

10. If you depart early you arrive early at your destination. Why is there ALWAYS the bloodey annoying 1% who insist on boarding at the last minute after everyone else has been on-board for the last 20?

There's some valid reasons already been mentioned, but those aside: because they are selfish idiots :rolleyes:

5. Why stand up? Because I've been through at least three - usually five - seemingly interminable queues and hours of sausage-machine-style processing just in order to get to an under-sized seat into which I've been shoe-horned for too long (especially if the flight's more than about 90 minutes) and I can't wait to stand up.

As a minimum hours PPL, I used to enjoy being up in the air but the modern commercial flying experience seems somehow to suck any remaining joy out of it. I just want to get on and off as quickly as possible and get on with my day.

What's more, four times out of five I travel with just hand luggage, and I know what time the train home is, so getting out of the tin tube as quickly as possible means I get to the front of the immigration queue and on my way quickly. It just helps improve my day.

Fair enough?