Ryanair again (sorry)
 

I know the previous thread has just been closed but I want to ask those who know about the facts here. Just had my first experience of Ryanair. Now I know it's a Lo-Co, and my fare was very cheap, I'm also aware that because my fare was so low (STN-Palermo - about £85 return) I have no right to expect silver service. But what happened on arrival went too far imho.

Last night paxing PMO-STN landed at 2355Z. Running 45 minutes late so the flight deck did well to get us back before the airport closed which would have meant a diversion to BHX.

On arrival in the baggage hall there was a huge glut of pax waiting for their baggage. Announcements on PA apologised for the delay and said that it was due to a large number of incoming arrivals. All the people waiting as far as I could see were FR pax.

It was just after 0140 before the first bags off the flight came through (I noted the time - 01:45 minutes after landing). The only staff on duty were BAA, who said (understandably) that it was not their responsibility, that it was Ryanair and Swissport we needed to talk to, but that they had all gone home. Rumours of a baggage handling strike were denied by the BAA staff, one chap telling me it's all Ryanair, that they have only three people processing the bags for all the late arriving flights (is this true?), and that this was a nightly occurence (is this true?); not only that but in fact it was better than usual and it's been like this for one year. I find that hard to believe.

I asked about the contract - surely the airline have a duty to get your bags to you within 'a reasonable time'? He said Ryanair have a sneaky way round this which means you have two contracts, on to get you from Airport A to Airport B and the other to get your bags from A to B and then to you (is this true?).

Again, I don't expect much when I fly Ryanair, and until this point I was very happy (apart from having to wait 2 hours to clear check-in and 'security' on the way out which was not the fault of FR). But this is just not on. I missed the last train back, and was very lucky to get a lift to Golders Green from a very very nice El Al employee who I'd only asked for directions to the bus.

What is going on?????? Sort it out Mr O'Leary!

Unfortunately I can only empathise with you...Same flight, last september, same situation exactly.

I am burning inside, believe me, but my lips are sealed....:oh:

FBW

Unless I am reading your post wrongly - it looks to me like Ryanair did their bit fine (great low fair giving people the opportunity to get about affordably) and that the problem lies with the handling agents.

I also think Mr O'Leary is doing his best to sort it out by doing his best to let us take on our 25kgs of hand baggage again.

Nothin worse than having to wait for bags - I was about an hour on Friday night at Edinburgh - but not really the airlines issue.

Every company in the world would love to abdicate responsibility just because they sub-contracted. It doesn't really work like that.

It would be useful to hear if someone can confirm or refute the specific points raised by wedge, as they are important.

Wedge

Ryanair contract Swissport to do their handling at Stansted, so O' Leary won't sort it out. Ryanair's late evning arrival schedule at Stansted is very heavy (check BAA Stansted arrivals) and unfortunately it is not uncommon to experience delays for baggage at that time of night, particularly if some flights are running slightly late which causes bunching at an already busy time. What hasn't helped is the recent security enhancements which has not helped LCCs to achieve on time performance for the 3 + sectors that most aircraft do in a day. All late evening Ryanair arrivals are scheduled in by 2350 local so it's possible Swissport have roster timings to suit. Not sure what incentives there are for staff to stay on later to handle delayed flights, seems not a lot given your experience and given it was bank holiday weekend.

WedgeSo, don't use them again. I don't. If they are making the ticket price cheap it is because they have cut ALL their costs and if that means only paying Swissport enough for X staff, rather than Y at the end of the day - then that is down to the cleverness of FR.

Wedge

I don't wish to sound harsh, but what did you expect from this airline? At the end of the day they got you safely to and from Palermo and fulfilled your contract with them. Yes you missed the train, but that is not the airline's responsibility (read the terns and conditions of your contract.)

If you look on other threads, you will find differences of opinion between the likes of SXB and Slim Slag about the relative merits/demerits of Ryanair.

Some people find the service acceptable, others do not. Ultimately it is a matter of choice.

Take PAXboy's advice if you find this incident unacceptable.

Did you know that Air Malta flies from LGW to CTA? (Catania) If you book well in advance it will cost you more that Ryanair, but probably not as much as you think and you'll get a meal, decent seat pitch and full service.

The choice, as ever, is yours.

I also flew into STN on a couple of occasions as SLF recently, once before the security hooha and once after. I am one of those who accepts Ryanair for what they are, as long as they don't start falling out of the sky. That said, the Swissport baggage handling is truly pi$$poor. Given the FR system, one usually finds oneself standing in line to board, while gazing out of the window at, yes, the baggage handlers misshandling the luggage. It is excrutiating watching the bags falling off the conveyor and being crammed into the trolleys. I am sure they do it on purpose.

The other notable thing about STN baggage handling is the fact that there will always be a small number of bags on the carousel after everyone has left. It is sad to read the tags for Malaga, Rome, etc, and in one odd case, Anchorage, Alaska (I suppose they just didn't know where it was, so refused to touch it).

I don't wish to sound harsh, but what did you expect from this airline?

Simple answer to that.

I expected to get my bags within one hour of landing. That would have been fine. One hour 45 imho is just not on, even on a low-cost. I'm not an FR ranter, I think it's in many ways a terrific airline, and as I said until this point I was very happy. But to wait nearly two hours for your bags (which if I'd been flying in from France would have been longer than the duration of the flight), is just taking the p!ss. Sorry but it is.

It's a matter of choice, true, this was my first time on FR so I think I have a right to complain without being told "you made your bed, you lie in it", etc.

P!ss poor Michael. You have built a very successful airline, and it won't go bust if I choose not to fly FR again. I didn't know Air Malta go to Catania, it is only FR who go direct London-Palermo (I believe), and if I fly to Sicily again soon I may choose the Air Malta option. Thanks.

If anyone can answer the question re: the contract I'd appreciate it. I know FR are very clever but I suspect they're on dodgy legal ground with their exclusion clauses on baggage, or the fact that you have two contracts with them (if this is true: note - just because a clause is included in a contract does not mean it is legally enforceable.

The 'contract law' that relates to baggage can be found in international conventions and eu regulations, maybe that's what your baa source is talking about, but it applies to them all. It is a good assumption that all airlines will hide behind these regulations and treat you poorly when things go wrong, that's unless your name is posh spice. There is another thread where somebody has been waiting for his artificial leg for a week, and he didn't fly on Ryanair.

I've found that some airports are better than others. It's the ones which have got busy in the past five years and have modern infrastructure that are the best.

Baggage Delay's
 

The baggage loads at the moment are about 25% heavier than they would normally be at this time of year because of the current security rules. This is obviously having a major impact on the time it takes to load and unload aircraft.

Because the aircraft would have been picking up delays throughout the day due to this and the fact that STNs runway is presently closing at midnight on Sat & Sun for resurfacing, means that a large number of aircraft are landing between 23:30 and 00:00.

Also Swissport's late shift is rostered to finish at 23:59, leaving only a small amount of nightshift and any agents willing to stop on for overtime (bearing in mind that most of them would have started at 13:30 and will be fairly shattered because of the heavy loads they are coping with) to unload the late arriving aircraft.

As you can imagine all of this coupled together means that it will take longer to get your bags if you're coming into STN at around midnight on the weekend.

I know this wont make you feel any better about having to wait over an hour for your baggage but hopefully it will explain the reasons why.

Its not just Ryanair at STN who have problems with Handling agents short staffing. LGW has issues too. Especially with Aviance and EZY. I'm not sure whether AEU have dropped Aviance yet, but FCA sure did!
I had a very memorable flight last summer with a 3 hours wait from chocks to First bags!!! Anyone from Aviance insight??? Nope, but can't blame them. The management don't hire enougth staff. Usually because the handling agent offer their services for a very cheap price to the airlines. Sadly this 'cheap price' means skeleton staffing.
I start to feel sorry for the loaders who must have to work their :mad: off with a full 757 to get the bags in, knowing that there are another 5 aircraft waiting for them after they have finished that one! All arrinving at the same time, with the pax wanting their bags (quite rightly) ASAP.

More things
 

HA's have Service level agreements with the BAA, at BAA airports. I can't remember the exact figures but the HA needed to have called 'Last Bags' at 90 mins from chocks. At least I think thats what the number was. It may well be less. If the bags are not all delivered in this time a reason needs to be given by the HA which is noted. To cut the story short HA's are fined for their short comings if the reason for repeated delays is their own fault, eg no staff. Whether the airlines have a similar process, i do not know. Sorry.

The other notable thing about STN baggage handling is the fact that there will always be a small number of bags on the carousel after everyone has left. It is sad to read the tags for Malaga, Rome, etc, and in one odd case, Anchorage, Alaska (I suppose they just didn't know where it was, so refused to touch it).[/quote]

please understand that the baggage belts at stansted are used by all
airlines and every airport i have been there is bags left on the belts
to other destinations
ryanair has a very low lost baggage rate but i do agree that if you
arrive at peak times at stn you wait for bags i have had this with
easyjet ryanair mytravel el-al and kibris-turkish the main problem
at stansted is not the airline but the lack of baggage belts
only 5 belts in international baggage hall you only have to look
on Baa website arrivals between 2300-2359 to see that this is
not enough belts for the volume and is no reflection on ryanair
its just that this is a peak time for the airline

I've flown a heck of a lot over many years on many airlines, and I would strongly disagree with this assumption, it just isn't the case. There are exceptions, however, as Wedge has just found out.

As regards other points about staffing at Stansted, I think Wedge has a valid complaint, whether it's Ryanair or any other airline. If pax don't complain, standards will never improve, in fact they will just get worse.

Can anyone in the know tell us what steps the relevant managers are taking to rectify the problems at Stansted? Or are they just not going to bother?

10 second
 

BAA are to build at least one more baggage belt
in the int arrivals hall but having worked at stn
in the past one is not enough if you ask me another
four wouldnt be enough at peak times
some people may not agree but baggage belts or
lack of them at stansted is the main reason for delayed
baggage every night every baggage belt built for one
flight at a time has at least 3 or 4 flights/pax waiting
in the hall for each and every belt to become available
having been in the undercroft and seen the baggage truck
sometimes 8 or more waiting for a belt to come free

the point is most of the time even peak times the bags
are down in the undercroft with-in 20min it just takes
another 30-40-50min for room on a baggage belt
to become free

I can tell you all if your waiting for bags I bet they are
in the undercroft waiting to come up and if you look round
upstairs at the baggage belts they will be full with at least 3
other flights bags going round

10secondsurvey,

Unfortunately the AUC (pdf) doesn't agree with the rosy picture you paint.When things go wrong, which fortunately doesn't often happen, passengers are not treated well.

How are things at Heathrow? Found that leg yet? I bet the owners of the 20,000 bags there would be delighted for their luggage to only be 1hr 45 minutes late.

well said
If they could they would blame ryanair for LHR problems
well why not every other problem in the world is ryanairs fault

Wedge, just for your information BA fly from LGW to CTA direct too, prices start from £89 return inc.taxes, of course if you fly on the less busy days.

However Catania and Palermo are a few hours away, it took me about 5 hours by car via Messina/Cefalu' (if you go north)and around 3 hours via Enna (if you go south first then take the big motorway to PMO).

Air Malta are very good too and I think they fly out of STN. :ok: they also fly out of LGW and LHR but I think you'd need to connect in MLA which might add to the cost of taxes.

I hope you enjoyed your stay in Sicily though and that the incident with baggage didn't spoil it for you, I think Sicily is a truly undervalued gem. Cannot wait to go back again!!!:ok:

Hi FBW

KM do fly direct to CTA from LGW, so no extra costs.

I-d agree that BA are also a good potential choice.

Brilliant!! That's good news for me too as I have so many relatives in Sicily and live near LGW! I tried to find a proper KM schedule for Wedge but their site seems to have a little bit of a problem with the flight timetable at the moment so I might try later!!

Thank you :)

From what some posters have said this can be a regular occurence with RYR flights at STN arriving after 23.00. If that is so then RYR will know about the problem and they have absolutely no excuse for ignoring it. I don't buy the explanation of insufficient carousels being the problem, I've never heard of anyone else waiting such a time at peak periods. The problem is straightforward, more resources are needed for baggage handling at those times. RYR won't do anything because they couldn't care less.

I once waited an hour for my luggage at FRA after a nightflight from Baku via Vienna, apparently there was some kind of technical problem. After an hour I just went to lost baggage and said I wasn't waiting any longer as I considered it delayed and they could put into a taxi when it arrived, they didn't even argue with me and my bag turned up a few hours later. I seem to remember this was with Austrian Airlines. I don't know how much a taxi costs from Frankfurt to Strasbourg but it's about 230km so it isn't cheap, of course I'd paid about €2500 for my ticket so I didn't really care. Another example of getting what you pay for. For info RYR don't fly to Baku, in fact I don't believe they fly to FRA either

Oh yes they do.... Stansted-Frankfurt (Hahn)

The same way they fly to Firenze (Pisa) and Venezia (Treviso) :E :E :E

;)

Just for anyone who thinks Frankfurt (Hahn) might be a good deal it has to be at least 100kms from the city of Frankfurt. How on earth can RYR use the city name of Frankfurt when flying to Hahn ? Don't the trades description people have an opinion on this ?

Imagine if you were German and boarded a plane to London only to arrive in the baggage reclaim hall to see a sign saying "Welcome to Ipswich" When complaining you could be told the train station is down the road or there's a bus stop outside the arrivals hall.

I once collected someone from Hahn airport and it really is in the ar*e end of nowhere. Interestingly I don't recall seeing any BA or LH aircraft parked on the apron, I imagine when they say they are flying to Frankfurt they deposit you at the major international airport situated just a few kms from the city of Frankfurt.

Frankfurt Hahn is about 75 miles or 120 km from Frankfurt

It is called Frankfurt Hahn by FRAPORT who run it (and also FRA, the airport that actually is near to Frankfurt)

I once took the family there for a weekend and we visited Koblenz and had a generally very nice time in time in the middle of a rural area miles away from any built up nonsense ;)

sxb
 

so you dont buy it the baggage belts or lack of them
well you seem like a very well informed man
and I guess your maths is rather good

lets see normaly there is 30-35 flights landing
between 2250 and 2350 lets say as a guess that all
have 150 pax and all have bags and all are international
flights there are 5 baggage belts you do the maths
coz I cant fit all them flights to baggage belts

and as far as you not trusting what I say re baggage belt
and baggage trucks waiting in line in the undercroft
trust me I drove them truck for 3 years and unloaded
the ryanair aircraft which took no longer than 15-20 mins
from on blocks even before everyone had baggage you would
wait approx 50mins at peak times now with every pax having
at least one bag it must be hell

Frankfurt Hahn
 

I do agree that the description is more than unfair but I don't think anyone flies into Hahn and actually thinks it is near Frankfurt city. I go there every 3 months or so with a work colleague and it suits us for a day out. 15 miles from the charming Mosel, he goes to Wittlich and buys a zillion ghastly cigarillos which save him £400+ on the UK price. We then use our military ID to go to the PX/BX shops at Bitburg and Spandahlem and stock up on things. Coffee and cakes in Bernkastell and back to the airport. £15 Stansted parking, £25 each return airfare and £45 for a one day hire of a 'C' class Merc. That said, there is no way you would get a good day's proper business done in Frankfurt city centre via Hahn - you'd have to night stop. Somebody wants the flights - they are always very full.

how far is LHR. LGW, STN, LTN, from london
the only airport in london is city airport
not all people fly to an airport the go to the closest city

back to the start we go again, ryanair fly to CIA
and other major flag carriers fly to FCO
which of the two is closer to the city of rome ?

DAZ
All those London airports have fast transport links into central London.

London is one of the largest cities in the world, hence all the airports (bar one) being on the outskirts.

As regards baggage, RYR always have an excuse, don't they ?

What has someones artificial leg got to do with me????? I haven't got it, honest!


I never painted a rosy picture, and cerainly not of LHR/BAA (I have posted often on the subject of BAA/LHR recently). Unlike others here, I have on varying occasions criticised BA, Virgin and BMI, and will do so with any airline where I think it is merited. Equally I will praise where I think it is merited.

As to the subject in hand, as I said I have flown over many years with many airlines, and usually the relevant staff try to help out if there are problems, so like I said, I completely disagree with your assumption that airlines will not try to help when things go wrong. That is my experience.

I would just like to know how the relevant management plan to sort out the problems highlighted by Wedge. He has a valid point.

how far is LHR. LGW, STN, LTN, from london

LHR 18 miles

LGW 32 miles

STN 35 miles

LTN 35 miles

... and Hahn is 75 miles away from Frankfurt

... so

57 miles further than LHR

43 miles further than LGW

and shall we just say more than twice as far as STN and LTN?

Please enrol for remedial geography immediately daz :E

And CIA is a great little airport for point to point travel, as is LCY, but neither are hubs, which FCO and LHR are, so apples and pears.

:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

I am not sure that the actual distances involved are the issue - are LGW, LTN, STN, genuine "London" airports? We could discuss that all night. EMA has been renamed "Nottingham EMA" for marketing reasons even though it is a lot closer to Derby!
Fact is that certain LoCo's maps simply list an interesting city location (Glasgow, Frankfurt, London, etc) without making it clear that the airport is in the middle of BFE with no easy links to the actual place you thought you were going. Seasoned travelers will know these things but the vast majority of folks (who travel by plane rarely) will generally assume if a destination is given as "Stockholm", that is where they will be. Regular, easy and high speed links (as is the case with ARN) will make this not a problem; but the real issue is: the marketing is at best disingenuous and at times simply downright lies. And I don't buy the concept that if you don't read the small print then tough luck. There must surely be some kind of transparency to protect the majority of travelers (who are not frequent SLF).
(You may guess from this that I once found myself in the wrong place!)

GDI

am not sure that the actual distances involved are the issue

Well, when the airport is 75 miles away from the city it's named after, I might take issue with your statement :rolleyes:

Let's think of some crackers ............

Newcastle West (Carlisle, 61 miles)

Lancaster North (Carlisle, 67 miles)

Darlington North (Carlisle, 76 miles)

Carlisle could be on a winner here :-)

Every trip on an airline has two bits at the end where you have to go by land.

Some people off to Frankfurt will find it more convenient to go to an airport ten miles from their house, fly to Hahn, and then travel the 70 miles to Frankfurt.

Some people will find it more convenient to travel 90 miles to Heathrow, fly to Frankfurt airport and travel the few miles to Frankfurt.

If you lived in Santiago de Compostela and you wanted to go to Frankfurt, I'd be interested in reasons to travel via Madrid just so you could fly to Frankfurt airport. You'd fly from your local airport non-stop to Hahn and do the road trip the other end.

People are so stuck in the past, these locos have opened up a huge part of Europe where it now makes it easy to fly. That has boosted business and generated jobs in the regions (and in the airlines).

And what about the people who live near Hahn? They have a service where before they had to drive to Frankfurt. Those who want to fly LHR-FRA just get on with it and stop telling the rest of us what to do with our money.

Total time from door to door and total cost from door to door is all that counts, IMO. That will depend greatly on where you live, and most people don't live in London.

stn arrivals tonight
 

just to let you know
all those people talking about 5 baggage belt are enought
and are nothing to do with stn baggage delays
tonight arrivals between 2300 and 2359 total (44) flights
thats 44 arrivals in one hour each a/c carrying well over 100 pax
and bags

now tell me that this has nothing to to with the baggage arrival times

Daz
how many of those 44 arrivals are RYR ?

Slim
you've missed the point - call the location Hahn in the marketing map and not Frankfurt.

slim slag

You are correct about budget airlines in some casses opening up alternative routes, but the point by goshdarnit is also true. It is the deceptive nature of the place names with some airlines that cause problems.

I mean why not call Gerona what it is, rather than calling it Barcelona, which it clearly is not. Or why call a former military airfield at Weeze in Germany, Dusseldorf (which it clearly is not). Sure, new routes have opened up, but only under the pretence they go somewhere other than where they really go to.

Daz211, sorry to take issue, but the problem at STN doesn't seem to be mainly the belts. In my case recently, the only reason the baggage hall was so full, was all the people were standing arround waiting for a carousel to be allocated to their flight.

At no time were more than three out of five carousels in action. The reason why I mentioned the forlorn bags still on the carousel, clearly mis-delivered, was that nobody had bothered to remove them (for the entire 1.5 hours I was there waiting for my bags). Next time any of you go through STN, I recommend to check the destination tags of these bags, just for a laugh to see the destinations!

Further to that, there was a very fine drizzle on the evening in question. When my bags did finally arrive, they were significantly wet, which means that for a good portion of that time, they were sitting out in the open (unless of course, this undercroft you mention isnt "under" at all).