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Ryanair clear winner in survey

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Ryanair clear winner in survey

Old 27th Oct 2002, 19:51
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Talking Ryanair clear winner in survey

http://www.airlinequality.com/news/n...ryan_worst.htm

Last edited by sky9; 28th Oct 2002 at 19:58.
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Old 27th Oct 2002, 21:08
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WHAT!!! This hideous "airline" win... Then reading on...Does it suprise me? Nope! You get what you pay for in this life. It sh*ts on its staff so why not the fare paying public.
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Old 27th Oct 2002, 23:32
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Mmmmm, and in whose pockets are Skytrax in??

Aside from the fact that having a "Worst Airline" category is rather childish (I don't see OAG or Business Traveller adopting such awards), a trip to Stansted Airport will soon reveal the extent to which "Skytrax" advice is followed!

Oh, and has anyone noticed how the Editor tends to chide those who actually had a decent flight with Ryanair? "Impartiality" doesn't seem to figure too strongly in this survey....

FR are by no means squeeky clean, but they have made air travel more accessible, and created jobs.

An independent survey? Mmmmm, I'm not convinced! Why don't they reveal info on their "customers" or "voters"?
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Old 28th Oct 2002, 12:47
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Dear Tiger
Wrong again. Just refer to T&E posts on pprune. Fr staff very happy, great rosters, pay increases, options, promotions, and lots of brand new aircraft and promotions-lots of em!
As for passengers they cant get enough of ryanair. I estimate
that my ave load over last month must be about 90%.
Enjoy these useless 'surveys' [never heard of skytrax] as Fr
quote in paper says pax are voting with their feet. Fr wins pax
poll on every route, while BA wins the surveys- and makes 10000
redundant. Know where I'd rather work.
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Old 28th Oct 2002, 17:38
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ILUV2FLY

Thank you for the info. But like everything, where you can show a positive I can counter act with the negetive view and of course the other way round.

As a paxs of FR. STN-DND I am well aware of the product and find the cabin crew not of a particularly high standard. Safety PA, done very quickly, in an Irish brogue so the like of us Brits have no idea were how and what is..."2 doors at the rear 1 or the right one on the left, 4 o/w exits 2 on the right 2 on the left and 2 doors at the front 1 on the right 1 on the left" the paxs all just looked at each other and general comments was "I`ll follow you"

The No1 cabin crew stands at main cabin door. Arms folded, no smile, in fact a face on her that says "I`m a smacked arse", paxs says "Hello" she may grut if luckly.

The service. OK it is limited. If you feel hungry sit at the front because in the middle say "forget it, as nothing left". But hey, all I want is a cup of coffee, but wait after take off we are informed, sorry no white coffee or tea, and on return journeys no coffee available.

No1 can not deal with problems on flight. Snaps at crew, poor new crew member really gets it!

Arrival into STN. No1 has messed up bar paper work. There are more copies of a C209 and ££££ everywhere. So on that cold dark evening at STN the airstair lights are off (dark steps) and no one is available to assist paxs or to make sure no one slips on the airstairs.

As for promotion. I hope they promote on some ablity to do the job. Bottom of the barrel comes to mind.
As for the pilots. Recruitment charges £50 to send in a CV?!!
Charge for the polyester uniform some £450 that the cabin crew wear.
Concessionary travel with who? FR, Touchdown? and any other airline?
Nightstops? FR crews nightstop? Isn`t part of the job visiting other parts of the world?

Lots of new aircraft. They 737-800 I`ve been on needed a good clean, and the removal of several days boarding cards, and the odd Arabic newspaper which worried another paxs. The removal of coffee stains and wax crayon from the tray table would have been pleasant. But as the paxs in front of me said as she saw her dirty table "what do you expect of 49p?!"

Expansion is a dangerous business and lots of new planes require much management. This is were British Midland were careful. Infact boringly so. New routes were 1 a timetable change. But they have out seen Air Europe and Dan Air.

I agree surveys are useless. Hand a paxs a survey and they complete the whole thing on the bad check in experience but the rest of the flight is great, no problems etc...but the check in makes the rest poor. Or a connecting flight, eg paxs going to GLA from JFK, flies JFK-LHR recieves no survey. Flight poor. LHR-GLA flight fab, on time, great crew, food good etc, paxs recieves survey for the GLA segment. What do they complete the survey on? JFK-LHR!

Do you really think BA flights are empty? Well, every flight I`ve done in the last few weeks have been full. Yes 98-100% full. Even the 0620 LHR-CDG on a Sunday morning!

So for promotion. Thats a personal thing. However, I was a No1 for way too many years (11+) Line Trainer and even a classroom trainer in SEP, Security and some cabin service (and that was dull!) to spending many a night helping to write a Training and Cabin crew manual for the 737-300. Then there were the Assesment forms...mmm lets remember.

Sally arrived 10 minutes early today. She carried her passport and ID. Her uniform was of excellent standard, and hair and make up looked professional. Sally was a star performer during the briefing today. We discussed (sic. I questioned her on...) door drills and areas of responsiblity. Sally was lovely (ugh) to the paxs and help an OAP to their seat, she also helps a mother with 3 kids, 1 of which violently puked. Sally also ran round the cabin with a broom up a butt clean the windows and made flight deck (pilots) drinks. The Capt was difficult as he want his tea with 3cm of milk in and half a packet of sugar, but Sally managed and the Capt was very pleased with his drink. A Veg. meal was not on board for Mr Ben Dover so Sally gave him her crew meal as Sally is a Vegetarian too (sic. Sally`s crew meal Beef in Black Bean Sauce).........and so forth

I have personally seen, been and done the promotion bit and really am happy without all the grief and hassle that comes with it. After all, would FR paid me £1200 a month for 14 days work for the last year?

And whats the betting when BA opens the doors again...how many cabin crew will be lining up from other airlines?

Who can say what the future holds, its a all a personal choice and what you want from the job...but I know where I`d rather work.

Last edited by Tiger; 28th Oct 2002 at 18:01.
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Old 29th Oct 2002, 12:48
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More free publicity I see. Who are ShyTrax? Who are their top 10 shareholders? Are they British by any chance? Is this just having a go at a named airline again for commercial reasons or misguided Esther Ranzid antics.


Bye the bye I have an Irish brogue as you call it, Mr Trolly Dolly (earlier post) I'm sure it is somewhat akin to a "scouser" or "northerner accent" in your country.

Sorry that some of us don't have Mr Windsor's english, "Afric-er" and "Indi-er" and the like...

This is another racist attack based on anecdotal pish - PURE PISH. Why don't you just go about actual sabotage or something - I would probably respect you more for that.

I guess it's the Bush dictum - "You're either with us - OR - you're agin' us" Know what I'm saying partner. Your position is clear from the outset.

Who gives a ***** about SkyTrax?

Ryanair certainly do not because it's largely hearsay and black ops bullsh*t. More publicity, more publicity...

They learned that one from Thatcher.

And hey ho - it's free!!!

Ah Nigel. Consumer affairs issues are the wet-dream of the B & Q Sunday special.

Get real.

Please close this thread.
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Old 29th Oct 2002, 15:54
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Hold on Guys this is an airline whoís CEO states that he couldnít care what his passengers think and "what do you expect for £9.99", who cancels flights and leaves passengers stranded , who sacked the local Pilots Union leader for a specious reason and has regularly gone to court and lost (or settled on the courtroom steps).

If I was employed by Ryanair or itís CEO, I would just stop to think what the survey is saying, rather than suggesting that it is really just a British plot against the Irish. If Ryanair wants to survive long term (& I for one hopes that it does) it is going to need repeat business. Sooner or later people will get hacked off by a couldnít care attitude and it will be your jobs that go out of the window. We in the UK have seen it happen for years Courtline, Dan Air, Air Europe (Intersun).......I could go on.
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Old 29th Oct 2002, 16:17
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I've flown with Ryanair from LBA-DUB (£5 each way + tax), STN to ORK (£40 each way + tax) and Stansted to Shannon (£7.50 each way + tax).

And what did I get for such massive sums? There and back. Sure, Ryanair may be no frills but that's the whole point - it was cheap!You really do get what you pay for....
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Old 29th Oct 2002, 21:10
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Iím with big.al on this one.

People buy tickets with Ryan Air primarily because it is cheaper than the competition (well most of the time) Ė that is its unique selling proposition. In terms of the customer service you are going to get you are not buying the same product as a flight with BA or Lufthansa, and despite the perception of some PPRUNE or Skytrax posters Ryan Air makes no claims to the contrary.

As a repeat customer with Ryan Air there are some things, like pre-allocated seating, that I do miss not having. But until someone comes up with a convincing case that low cost equals lower safety standards then the absence of frills is not, in the great scheme of things, that important. For journeys where frills are a necessary ingredient I pay more (well most of the time) and travel with another airline.

BTW I donít find the safety announcements on Ryan Air Ė be they with or without an Irish brogue - any more or any less unintelligible than other carriers.
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Old 30th Oct 2002, 13:04
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Why such negative attitudes about FR?

Ryanair provide a service which does just what it says on the can. I use them whenever possible in Europe - the price is right and the service is OK. BA does have OK lounges (I'm a BA silver and United gold card holder) but their passenger service attitude and high cost drive me to FR on a regular basis.

Maybe (as a non-Brit) I'm missing some nationalism-driven aspects - I just take as I find, and I find FR is an OK operator from a passenger perspective.

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Old 31st Oct 2002, 12:35
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Paxsmanwithinfo.

Irish brogue is NOT an insult. People from Glasgow have strong accents and they can talk so an English person can not understand, its been shown on TV between 2 people from the Glasgow area. On asking a couple of mates from the local area about this they laughed and spent the evening doing this to me. When I visited San Diego the other week sometimes I didn`t quite catch what they said. You have an accent, so do I, a Midlands one. Please climb down from your silly little box and stop your homophobic rant. (sic. Mr TrollyDolly), and any other of your childish and rather pathetic ranting.

My posting IS NOT RACIST, BUT FACT, one you may not like, but having both travelled on FR several times, plus been offered a job with some 10 years ago. I admit the T&C may have changed from them.

Personal who cares what SkyTrax has said. I believe that I said survey`s where a waste of time.

As for Thatcher....I never did like her.

But the one thing here I really have to laugh about is how if a British person even comments on FR out comes how we are racist. So on that note. Am I being racist if I ask an Irish Capt who rings me at home to please speak slower because I`m not catching everything he is saying, and the mobile phone line isn`t too clear?

So Mr Paxsman do I take it your anti British and don`t like gay men?
Or may I ask are you stereotyping the job I have?
Just to note on that point. Male cabin crew as in male hairdressers don`t tend to be gay now days, but I`ll point this out to my wife.

Go play on your calculator and see if you can bulls up some company finances. You lot usually do.

Last edited by Tiger; 31st Oct 2002 at 12:57.
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Old 31st Oct 2002, 16:33
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Tiger,

I do apologise, genuinely, particularly if you inferred that I was promoting homophobic attitudes and/or negative stereotyping of a role or individual. I myself crewed in the cabin for a short while as well as working on check-in for two airlines in the late eighties and early nineties whilst in college. I am not anti-Bristish in the least BUT I am anti lingering colonial attitudes and Anglo-centric views of the planet. I am also anti corporate skulldugery because you could be described as a naive fool if you thought that it didn't exist. It gets particualrly nasty when corporate cultures also have an acrimonous historic past in terms of nation/state formation issues and general access to slices of the pie. Again, if you think business is for betterment of society - think again. Flying is not for jollies - it's for profit. Pure and simple.

I still take offence as an Irish person when living in the UK when automatically I am deemed to have a brogue and do not subscribe to received pronunciation or bbc speak. In addition, I face rascist comments that the offender wil not even recognise or apologise for when this is pointed out - afterall it's just a Paddy jibe much like a Packie one.

I again apologise but am a constant victim of ex-colonial jibes, racial stereotyping and direct insult.

Please, just think the next time before you possibly offend (unintentionally I'm sure). I can see that Quality Customer Service is close to your heart and I respect you for it. But, it would appear that it is not a priority for Ryanair, rather lower fares is -and customer service is perfunctory at best. Any besmerching of safety standards is either libellous or true. Which is it? Or is it a very personal area of expertise whereby you cannot believe a new approach that is much out of step with the old?

I will continue to see any negative hearsay style posting on any airline as coffee shop gossip unles you feel that it should be reported. In essence, it's an attack on a company and a group of people linking it with a country de facto and de jure makes it racist.

By the by - the attak regarding where I might work was unecessary if understandable as you considered yourself offended. An eye for an eye and the whole world will go blind...

I have no animousity just a desire for justice and reason to prevail - not one sided attacks based on anecdotal stories.

No hard feelings I hope.

May the most profitable win. They usually do...
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Old 31st Oct 2002, 19:02
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Thank you for the apology.

Whilst I agree with your comment regarding varrious attitudes, and about business ethics, the point I was trying to make was "Isn`t the whole point of the job to travel and see parts of the world?" as well as the usual safety, customer service etc etc...

FR crews don`t nightstop and miss out on perk of the job.

As for brogue I carefully choose the word, as far as I could make out this means a strong accent, esp. Irish. (As in my dictionary) If the person doing the PA slowed down (on what is a confusing PA with doors and exits everywhere and numbers here and there) I could have understood it. However, it is a common fault with many crew to race a PA especially if its said every day X number of times a day.

To be truthfully, I hated training customer service, I founded it uninteresting, although have been a Customer Service Manager in a fairly well respected travel agency. (Hey, my Area Manager was Irish come to think of it, he draged us all off to Dublin for a meeting at The Gresham and all expenses paid by Irish Ferries...some couple of days fun there ) and I was always given the "tough" jobs to crack. And some how managed to get a favable outcome.

As for safety standards, I have seen a FR cabin crew manual which covered the 737-200 and -800 and it seemed fairly well written JAR-Op manual. There are of course differences of opinion how to write and what is a good piece of training material.
I don`t think I said safety was a major issue, but how I had seen a couple of their cabin crew perform in the cabin was poor. I have never felt so much for the "new girl" who was snapped at in the middle of the cabin because the brewers at the rear were not working. Even if the girl wasn`t sure how to work the brewer the No1 should not react in this manner. I know the STN-DND-STN is a short flight (about the same as a JER) but flapping and panic isn`t going to help the matter. It seemed a case of selling selling selling but 3 different thing at once (rail tickets, drinks, Tax free) paxs and crew getting muddled and incorrect exchange rates given. Perhaps I`m looking too deep, ie CRM, experience lacking?? Made up too quickly to SCCM??

As to my opinions of safety generally, I would say, it has had to be open minded. Having worked for 3 airlines, I have seen many changes and versions of the same thing. New Safety Managers with their ideas from another airline. When I started out much of the learning was book reading and written exams, and having to remember word for word paragraphs such as the Emergency PA, which in the event of such a happening your brain would forget the 2 sides of A5 with your backside doing the talking. Now days the training is more hands on and practical which I think is better than churning out pages of words and not understanding what you are filling the page with.

I`ve experienced a number of FR flights, and only one seemed to have a relaxed crew. When I say relaxed, calm and not buzzing atmosphere, with some customer service there, ie light chats with the paxs but the tea coffee ran out etc etc....that was the flight with the fast demo PA.

Can I also thank you for showing my point on promotion and what comes with it plus how other paxs make judgement on an airline. I put 2 types of assessment. One regarding a couple of flights how I saw that as a paxs. Something a trainer may have to do. The fictitious Sally was the sort of assessment that was written about cabin crew day in day out. The untrained eye soon spots the "oh really" factor?? Nobody likes to be critised. This is how the "shouldn`t be there crowd" lives on and how so many paxs comment, complain about an airline. It takes just 1 or 2 and this effects the rest of the crew that day and the flight becomes a bad one.

I don`t like knocking other peoples jobs. Its easy to drop people into categories and stereotype people and usually getting it wrong. Reading an article in a quality Sunday newspaper states your more likely to meet a gay UK police officer, and a person working in IT than a gay cabin crew member or hairdresser.

As for FR they are expanding and it will be an interesting time for them. However, they were having a pop at EasyJet in their last advert, so I think it may be interesting to watch as the low cost carriers jab at each other, because this may be were the real competion will begin, and with new LCC entering the market do I dare say monthly the competion hots up.
I hope T&C are not eroded for the crews and other employees...

Last edited by Tiger; 31st Oct 2002 at 19:13.
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