Boeing 707

[justapax]

At the last bash, a lot of discussion was about the aircraft we had been flown in, specifically British aircraft of the 50s to 80s that had been the subject of threads in Pax&SLF. As we have a more cosmopolitan participation on Saturday, can I ask people for their travel experiences in the 707? Lots of leg room, but so noisy that you almost had to communicate by passing notes was my experience. BOAC (Boeing Only Aircraft Company) loved them so I flew in them often Delhi - Karachi - Beirut - Rome - London as a kid. It's not that long since Iranian carriers stopped using them, presumably when the second-last had been cannibalised for spares for the last one.

The B707 and A220 should give us some things to talk about at the bash!

[ZFT]

Travelled in multitude of A, B and C models and never thought them to be noisy inside. Far more enjoyable than today's offerings.

[longer ron]

I am with ZFT - flew in both 707's and DC- 8's and iirc that the DC-8 was a bit noisier (Air Con ?) but I do not remember the 707 as being remarkably noisy.
It was fun watching the 707 outer engine nacelles nodding up and down through turbulence,iirc couldn't see the DC-8 engines at all.

[justapax]

Originally Posted by ZFT

Travelled in multitude of A, B and C models and never thought them to be noisy inside. Far more enjoyable than today's offerings.

As a diplobrat I seemed always to be seated just aft of the JT3D's. I wrote an article for listverse, which includes the engine noise at takeoff at No.9 . I don't own the copyright (I sold it) but you can view it at https://listverse.com/2020/05/11/top...age-of-flying/

The food was better on Pan Am than BOAC, but I didn't get to fly Pan Am as often.

I was small enough in those days that if the seat next to me was empty, I could put the armrest up, curl up over two seats, and sleep, horizontally, on my side. I didn't get that privilege again after I'd grown until lie-flat seats came in.

[ATSA1]

My first ever flight was in 1973, on a BEA Airtours B707-436, with the RR Conways instead of the P+W engines..I dont recall it being particularly noisy inside, outside was another matter!
I found a modern B777 much noisier inside, especially down the back..

[Helol]

Never on a 707, but I did fly on an internal flight in China, on a T-154M! (B-4017) in the early 90's. I 'think' it may have been used by the Chinese military too.

[Asturias56]

707's were great - they made the modern long haul business. And in the early days they didn't cram in so many people plus of course there was far less security and little "shopping experience" so travel was faster, smoother and pleasanter

[longer ron]

Originally Posted by ATSA1

My first ever flight was in 1973, on a BEA Airtours B707-436, with the RR Conways instead of the P+W engines..I dont recall it being particularly noisy inside, outside was another matter!
..

My 707 flights were with Air Zimbabwe so they were in ex Lufthunsa 707 - 330B (or were they 320B ?) with P+W donks.
When I first moved to Surrey/W Sussex I was staying quite close to Gatwick and one day I heard this 'noiser than usual' a/c - it was a DC-8 on climbout with smoke pouring out of 3 engines

[SimonPaddo]

Visited my sister in Bermuda on a BOAC one. Don’t remember much apart from being escorted everywhere as I was a young g passenger travelling alone.

Went to school in Egham so can confirm both 707 and DC8 turn most of their fuel into noise, a fair bit into smoke and the rest into thrust. Teachers had to pause the lesson if they turned South after departure.

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by longer ron

My 707 flights were with Air Zimbabwe so they were in ex Lufthunsa 707 - 330B (or were they 320B ?) with P+W donks.
When I first moved to Surrey/W Sussex I was staying quite close to Gatwick and one day I heard this 'noiser than usual' a/c - it was a DC-8 on climbout with smoke pouring out of 3 engines

In 1971 I was involved in the decommissioning and breakdown of a Curtiss Wright 707 FFS that had been sold to Air Rhodesia. I'm sure their aircraft were B720s ex USA somewhere. I also recall these same aircraft being grounded in Bulawayo some years later once the new Air Zimbabwe management took effect.

[treadigraph]

Air Rhodesia had three ex-Calair* 720s, VP-YNL, M and N which ended up with Air Zim prior to their 707s arriving.

*Unknown to me German outfit!

[SpringHeeledJack]

Without trawling through fleet lists, I have no idea which versions I flew on, but am assuming 707-300's of some type. Dan Air and Kenyan Airlines. Both were a bit long in the tooth internally, but smooth in flight and (for me at least) a joy to fly on listening to the engines do their thing.

[pax britanica]

Fl;ew on 320 straight jet version Sabena-v noisy at the back and several times on Conway powered 707-436s nd DC8 40 BOAC and Airtours and Alitalia .

The biggest comparison issue compared with today is that Economy was much better, roomy -food -than today but the rich (First) pax had a poor product compared to today So ones gone backward and the other forwards like the rest of the world .

Possibly noisiest was reverse thrust on a DC8 40 if you were sitting by the wing and could watch the complicated reverse system in action

[Asturias56]

But the in flight entertainment was pretty near non-existent................... I flew them quite regularly at one time. I guess, thanks to IATA, the product didn't differ very much.

[longer ron]

Originally Posted by ZFT

In 1971 I was involved in the decommissioning and breakdown of a Curtiss Wright 707 FFS that had been sold to Air Rhodesia. I'm sure their aircraft were B720s ex USA somewhere. I also recall these same aircraft being grounded in Bulawayo some years later once the new Air Zimbabwe management took effect.

Hi ZFT
Yes I believe Air Zim initially had 3 x 720's and then got hold of the 707's circa 1981/82 (?)

[treadigraph]

I think the Air Rhodesia scheme was basically the Calair scheme with added bird motif... a minimal repaint job!

[BonnieLass]

1958 London noise tests.....

You Tube

[justapax]

Originally Posted by ZFT

In 1971 I was involved in the decommissioning and breakdown of a Curtiss Wright 707 FFS that had been sold to Air Rhodesia. I'm sure their aircraft were B720s ex USA somewhere. I also recall these same aircraft being grounded in Bulawayo some years later once the new Air Zimbabwe management took effect.

Air Rhodesia did indeed fly the 720, they got them despite sanctions due to some shady dealings that involved a chain of middleman arranging for training in the US and a delivery flight where the aircraft's registration magically changed in mid-air. The story, or as much as has been revealed of it, is at https://rhodesianheritage.!!!!!!!!.c...rapped-in.html .

[WHBM]

The real black smoke came from the initial 707-120 (and equivalent 720s) with original JT3C engines. A number who had these re-engined them when fan engines came along, which really annoyed the Boeing aircraft salesmen who insisted that when the intercontinental 707-320 got fan engines the same, it should have airframe differences that prevented such a loss of whole aircraft sales. The worst smoke on departure came from water injection run for the first couple of minutes to densify the engine air.

The nearest operator of these initial "steam jets" was Aer Lingus, with the 720, and these used to turn up at Heathrow far more often than the timetable suggested. To my considerable surprise I encountered one at Bristol Lulsgate in about 1968, before they lengthened the runway, operating as a substitute for a Viscount, it arrived with about 25 passengers.

My own principal 707 experience with them was Wardair, from the UK to Vancouver, classic affinity group charter, fronted by some organisation based in the Yorkshire coalfields. Have to say, for a charter, the catering would not disgrace business class nowadays. Then they played bingo, giving out the cards, which my mother passed on as not doing "that sort of thing". Numbers read out over the PA. First winner, litre of Canadian whiskey was the prize. Next winner, big bottle of perfume. Mother looking round for the FAs to ask are there any cards left.

[Bergerie1]

There were times back in those days at New York when the easiest way to fly the SID was just to follow the smoke!!