Aero Maleth Diversion

[wowzz]

Not exactly sure where to post this, but I see that an Aero Maleth flight from Barbados to Manchester, had to divert to Bermuda, after hitting clear air turbulence, with 11 pax requiring hospital treatment. Flight now scheduled to depart midday tomorrow.
Probably not the best way to spend Christmas Day.

[Lonewolf_50]

I wonder how many of them had removed their seat belts.
Any word on injury to the cabin crew?

[FUMR]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50

I wonder how many of them had removed their seat belts.
Any word on injury to the cabin crew?

If it was unexpected turbulence there will always be passengers on their way to or from the bathroom and cabin crew will also be walking around. If there was some indication and the FD crew had turned on the signs, then fair comment. As a passenger who always keeps his seat belt fastened I'm always apprehensive when I have to leave my seat for a bathroom call. You then of course get FD crews who turn on the seat belts sign and conveniently forget about it. Eventually passengers ignore it, especially if they have delayed their bathroom call for half an hour or more and there hasn't been the slightest bump!

[Wimboy]

Divert...

It's still there! rescue flight posn ex LGW (Maleth) today...

pax are in 5* hotel..friends of mine on it!

Looks like straight turn due back in Wythenshawe International approx 0200 tomorrow.. Best part of 48 hours late! 😉

Dunno if EU 261 would apply ?

[Wycombe]

This is the latest in a run of negative publicity - although any airline's aircraft can run into unexpected CAT of course - for Maleth-Aero.

This flight was one of a series being run by them for P&O Cruises, carrying cruise pax between LGW/MAN and BGI/ANU for the UK winter season, using 2 A332's based temporarily at LGW and MAN.
Most of these flights (utilising usually 5 787's each day over 2-day weekend ship turnarounds) are provided by Tui - but Maleth were brought in quite "late in the day" to provide extra capacity after other airlines (one was Virgin, according to rumour) renaged on a Contract. I re-iterate rumour as there were lots of stories circulating as to how that "late in the day" involvement came about.

I was on one of said cruises returning to the UK on 2nd Dec from BGI, flying Tui, but one of the Maleth flights (BGI-MAN) picked-up an approx 12 hour delay, apparently due to their MAN-based a/c being u/s for the outbound sector and a replacement having to be rushed there from storage in Chateauroux. I would imagine crewing was also an issue.

These flights had already lit up complaints to P&O, due to pax having paid for premium seats in advance, and the Maleth a/c not having them, and also due to a lack of IFE - which the Tui, and other aircraft usually used have, of course.

Rightly or wrongly, this incident will have added to P&O's woes with using this carrier, although as I said, of course, it can happen to any airline.

[SamPope5]

Was on TOM099 on Saturday that departed an hour earlier following same route back to the UK was glad to be on TUI as always had a good experience with them flying long haul. Experienced a fair bit of turbulence in the first few hours with the crew informing us just after take off to prepare and expect the unsettled turbulence with the seatbelt sign being on for a while.

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

This is the latest in a run of negative publicity - although any airline's aircraft can run into unexpected CAT of course - for Maleth-Aero.

This flight was one of a series being run by them for P&O Cruises, carrying cruise pax between LGW/MAN and BGI/ANU for the UK winter season, using 2 A332's based temporarily at LGW and MAN.
Most of these flights (utilising usually 5 787's each day over 2-day weekend ship turnarounds) are provided by Tui - but Maleth were brought in quite "late in the day" to provide extra capacity after other airlines (one was Virgin, according to rumour) renaged on a Contract. I re-iterate rumour as there were lots of stories circulating as to how that "late in the day" involvement came about.

I was on one of said cruises returning to the UK on 2nd Dec from BGI, flying Tui, but one of the Maleth flights (BGI-MAN) picked-up an approx 12 hour delay, apparently due to their MAN-based a/c being u/s for the outbound sector and a replacement having to be rushed there from storage in Chateauroux. I would imagine crewing was also an issue.

These flights had already lit up complaints to P&O, due to pax having paid for premium seats in advance, and the Maleth a/c not having them, and also due to a lack of IFE - which the Tui, and other aircraft usually used have, of course.

Rightly or wrongly, this incident will have added to P&O's woes with using this carrier, although as I said, of course, it can happen to any airline.

According to a P&O insider on another forum, neither BA or VS signed any contracts, so no company reneged. However P&O proceeded with their W23/24 Caribbean cruise programme on the assumption that they would get the capacity they required from BA/VS. However, BA/VS felt that their aircraft could be more profitably utilised on scheduled flights, rather than P&O charters.
Fast forward to 2023, and suddenly P&O find they need 1200 l/h seats every weekend for their winter Caribbean season, with no obvious options. The P&O shortlist for potential suppliers must have been extremely short ! Maleth must have been able to drive a pretty hard bargain, knowing that P&O had really no other options.

[Wycombe]

Originally Posted by wowzz

According to a P&O insider on another forum, neither BA or VS signed any contracts, so no company reneged. However P&O proceeded with their W23/24 Caribbean cruise programme on the assumption that they would get the capacity they required from BA/VS. However, BA/VS felt that their aircraft could be more profitably utilised on scheduled flights, rather than P&O charters.
Fast forward to 2023, and suddenly P&O find they need 1200 l/h seats every weekend for their winter Caribbean season, with no obvious options. The P&O shortlist for potential suppliers must have been extremely short ! Maleth must have been able to drive a pretty hard bargain, knowing that P&O had really no other options.

Well, like I said there was lots of rumour as to what's gone on, both on board ship and on various fora. What seems to be for sure, as you say, is that P&O found themselves in a tight spot short of capacity to get pax to and from the 2 ships that they have in the Carribean this Winter, and have probably paid over the odds for what has turned-out to be a far from great service from Maleth. The CAT encounter could, again, of course, have happened to any carrier, but the recovery from the situation seems to be far from optimal also (although the fact that this happened over xmas has probably not helped).

By the way, it's a lot more than 1,200 seats needed every weekend, the 2 ships currently in Carribean, Britannia and Arvia have capacities over around 3,600 and 5,000 respectively. They do turn-arounds (in BGI or ANU) on alternate weekends. Or maybe you meant 1,200 extra seats over and above what they already had contracted? As I said to people I discussed this with on our cruise, that kind of short-notice capacity doesn't grow on trees!

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

Well, like I said there was lots of rumour as to what's gone on, both on board ship and on various fora. What seems to be for sure, as you say, is that P&O found themselves in a tight spot short of capacity to get pax to and from the 2 ships that they have in the Carribean this Winter, and have probably paid over the odds for what has turned-out to be a far from great service from Maleth. The CAT encounter could, again, of course, have happened to any carrier, but the recovery from the situation seems to be far from optimal also (although the fact that this happened over xmas has probably not helped).

By the way, it's a lot more than 1,200 seats needed every weekend, the 2 ships currently in Carribean, Britannia and Arvia have capacities over around 3,600 and 5,000 respectively. They do turn-arounds (in BGI or ANU) on alternate weekends. Or maybe you meant 1,200 extra seats over and above what they already had contracted? As I said to people I discussed this with on our cruise, that kind of short-notice capacity doesn't grow on trees!

To clarify, P&O require 1200 seats over and above the number contracted to TUI.
There is a suggestion/rumour that in future, P&O will sell a certain number of cruise only fares in the Caribbean (as you know, you cannot currently unbundle the fly/cruise package). This will obviously appeal to those who want to add on a pre or post cruise hotel stay, but given the current BA/VS fares to the Caribbean, P&O will need to offer some extremely attractive prices if they wish to divert a singnificant number of custoners away from their charter flights.

[Wycombe]

Originally Posted by wowzz

To clarify, P&O require 1200 seats over and above the number contracted to TUI.
There is a suggestion/rumour that in future, P&O will sell a certain number of cruise only fares in the Caribbean (as you know, you cannot currently unbundle the fly/cruise package). This will obviously appeal to those who want to add on a pre or post cruise hotel stay, but given the current BA/VS fares to the Caribbean, P&O will need to offer some extremely attractive prices if they wish to divert a singnificant number of custoners away from their charter flights.

Yes, I've heard this rumour also. To be honest, I think they'll struggle to fill the ships if they go down that route. I think prices, including the flights out and back are already pretty good. We paid around £1,600pp for a 2 week cruise in a balcony cabin, including the return Tui flights, and with £700 on-board spend thrown in (ie, "free" money to spend on-board) for the 2 of us in our cabin. I think that's pretty good value for a Carribean holiday that took in 9 islands in total.

To update on the current situation with the diverted flight, the A330 sent from LGW to rescue the pax is just arriving in BDA. The aircraft they were originally on when diverted arrived 58hrs ago!

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

Yes, I've heard this rumour also. To be honest, I think they'll struggle to fill the ships if they go down that route. I think prices, including the flights out and back are already pretty good. We paid around £1,600pp for a 2 week cruise in a balcony cabin, including the return Tui flights, and with £700 on-board spend thrown in (ie, "free" money to spend on-board) for the 2 of us in our cabin. I think that's pretty good value for a Carribean holiday that took in 9 islands in total.

To update on the current situation with the diverted flight, the A330 sent from LGW to rescue the pax is just arriving in BDA. The aircraft they were originally on when diverted arrived 58hrs ago!

I agree about the value for money aspect - we paid slightly more than you for our December 1st cruise but with our shareholder obc, we had over £1000 obc. Finally had to "pay" fir our own drinks on the last day !
Realistically, P&O would have to reduce their fares by over £500 pp for cruise only customers, and even then, many of us would still prefer the convenience of flying from a local airport (BHX for us) rather than the slog to MAN or LHR/LGW.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

This is the latest in a run of negative publicity - although any airline's aircraft can run into unexpected CAT of course

Maybe, although looking at a weather aftercast it does look like they ran into this problem in the tail end of a weather front strung out across the mid-Atlantic (the start of this will be over the UK in the next couple of days).

Routing to avoid suspect weather, or going straight through it, is something that does differ between operators, as anyone who has experience of various carriers operating in Asia around the equator can tell you. Fuel efficiency calculations for a direct track come into it, as does substantial experience by crews in operations in such areas, and differing approaches for seatbelts on/off in the cruise. I suspect that the readership on here are almost universally "seatbelts on" throughout cruise anyway, something not duplicated by the general pax numbers.

Meanwhile we have a carrier here based in ... well, it's difficult to tell where. Aircraft registered in Malta, seemingly stood in Chateauroux, France between contracts, website that gives no indication where their executive offices or senior management are.

[421dog]

On a fairly pedestrian upper Midwest commute to work in my pressurized piston twin a couple of weeks ago, I found myself being bounced around sufficiently that my head hit the headliner a few times, but the autopilot didn’t disconnect or anything like I have experienced when I felt obliged to make a PIREP in the past for such. After it calmed down, I poked around on my (fairly new) Sentry AHRS (which has a recording G monitor). It said that I was in +-2.4 G for around 10 minutes.

I always wear my seatbelt on commercial flights, but flying an airliner and having passengers bouncing around in the cabin in similar conditions is a terrifying idea.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by 421dog

I always wear my seatbelt on commercial flights, but flying an airliner and having passengers bouncing around in the cabin in similar conditions is a terrifying idea.

Like I suspect a number of others here, I experienced this quite some years ago in a 767, as well as passengers there were issues with the catering and baggage making parabolas around the cabin, which required a diversion and a couple of passengers and crew needing to be offloaded..

As an aside, I described aspects of this subsequently on here, and was most surprised that the FO of that flight made contact back.

[Wycombe]

Realistically, P&O would have to reduce their fares by over £500 pp for cruise only customers, and even then, many of us would still prefer the convenience of flying from a local airport (BHX for us) rather than the slog to MAN or LHR/LGW.

I spoke to some people on our last day on board Britannia (2nd Dec) who had just paid £600pp to stay onboard for another 2 weeks - whilst I suspect this was a "one-off" to sell remaining cabins and not indicative of future pricing, that was a bargain and I was tempted!

It looks like the poor people who were stuck in Bermuda over xmas at P&O/Maleth or an insurer's expense are now finally en-route back to MAN.

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

I spoke to some people on our last day on board Britannia (2nd Dec) who had just paid £600pp to stay onboard for another 2 weeks - whilst I suspect this was a "one-off" to sell remaining cabins and not indicative of future pricing, that was a bargain and I was tempted!

It looks like the poor people who were stuck in Bermuda over xmas at P&O/Maleth or an insurer's expense are now finally en-route back to MAN.

That is indeed a bargain price ! As you know, we were on the December 1st/2nd cruise, and the cruise was far from full (and all the better because of it), hence the incentive to book another two weeks.
Not sure I would want to be sailing on her currently, at 110% capacity. (ie - all lower bunks filled = 100% capacity, and all pull down bunks, sofa beds etc filled =110% capacity. )

[compton3bravo]

A friend of mine flew out on Maleth from Gatwick saying it was one of the worst flights she has ever been on (she is a very experienced traveller), the food was awful and very few drinks and of course no IFE. She contacted me saying this was not what she expected from P&O and dreading the return flight.

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by compton3bravo

A friend of mine flew out on Maleth from Gatwick saying it was one of the worst flights she has ever been on (she is a very experienced traveller), the food was awful and very few drinks and of course no IFE. She contacted me saying this was not what she expected from P&O and dreading the return flight.

Didn't Maleth get the work because P&O weren't happy with TUI last winter (use of third party leases etc) - you get what you pay for?

[Wycombe]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Didn't Maleth get the work because P&O weren't happy with TUI last winter (use of third party leases etc) - you get what you pay for?

I recall there were problems with Tui last winter - short-notice substititions mostly using Wamos IIRC are I think what you're referring to - but it seems to be that for reasons discussed further up the thread, P&O found themselves short of quite a bit of the capacity needed to get full ship-loads to and from the Carribean this winter, and Maleth-Aero were contracted late-in-the-day to help address the shortfall. Whether P&O will ever divulge to loyal Customers such as ourselves (this was our 9th cruise with them) what has really gone on that led to this sitution - I'm not holding my breath!

Based on the 2 weekends that we travelled (18/11 and 02/12, when 5 Tui 787's flew to BGI and back on both the Fridays and Saturdays) and from looking at flights over subsequent weekends, Tui's performance at least from a on-time perspective seems to have been mostly ok. Service on both of our flights was professional and friendly, food was decent (easily up to scheduled long-haul economy standard) and the IFE worked!

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by compton3bravo

the food was awful and very few drinks.

Catering on charters/sub-charters is wholly up to the charterer rather than the operating airline, anything from champagne service to nothing can be requested. of course, the charterer may have just asked for the operator's default, and not done their due diligence on it.