Musings On BA
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Musings On BA
I have just returned from Japan on 006 and experienced cabin crew service as it "used to be". Friendly, nice, professional, helpful and, above all, genuine...from the Japanese crew member that is.
I fly long-haul about once a month and have done, on and off, for 10 years. The last two years have led me to wonder what on earth has happened to BA. On the ground I am treated like an itinerant who is visiting check-in solely to annoy the staff. In the air, I am invisible after the meal has been served and the requisite two visits for "re-wineing". The curtains close and woe betide anyone who presses the call button. As far as feeling wanted by BA, well, that seems to have disappeared. Like a lot of frequent passengers I have spoken to, we feel as though we have been part of a team since Sept 11...we kept on flying. I can fly with anyone I please and at, an average of £3500 return, that's a lot of money multipled by twelve. Name a major airline and they are writing to me weekly with tantalising offers trying to get my business. BA? Not heard a thing.....
I know the reasons because I know a few people in the biz and I am aware that morale has plummeted at BA. However, someone had better dig deep and fix this problem quickly. I am a diehard Flag-flyer but.....I am becoming disillusioned and there are many others like me ready to take our money elsewhere.
I fly long-haul about once a month and have done, on and off, for 10 years. The last two years have led me to wonder what on earth has happened to BA. On the ground I am treated like an itinerant who is visiting check-in solely to annoy the staff. In the air, I am invisible after the meal has been served and the requisite two visits for "re-wineing". The curtains close and woe betide anyone who presses the call button. As far as feeling wanted by BA, well, that seems to have disappeared. Like a lot of frequent passengers I have spoken to, we feel as though we have been part of a team since Sept 11...we kept on flying. I can fly with anyone I please and at, an average of £3500 return, that's a lot of money multipled by twelve. Name a major airline and they are writing to me weekly with tantalising offers trying to get my business. BA? Not heard a thing.....
I know the reasons because I know a few people in the biz and I am aware that morale has plummeted at BA. However, someone had better dig deep and fix this problem quickly. I am a diehard Flag-flyer but.....I am becoming disillusioned and there are many others like me ready to take our money elsewhere.
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Northern Star- surely you mean the alternative British Airline drapped in the delighful flag of Singapore that has no routes from other parts of Britain outside of England, yet dares to scribble half heartedly, the Union Jack on its wing tips? Don't even mention the Flying sausage, please inform us of it's ontime record since it was launched?
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St. Crispin
Good point about Virgin, but from my Scottish perspective BA hardly covers itself in glory vis a vis services from parts of the UK other than England. Whilst the domestic network is perfectly good, there is only 1 n/s international route from Scotland (EDI-CDG), and everything else involves an undesirable trip to LHR/LGW/BHX/MAN on the way.
Good point about Virgin, but from my Scottish perspective BA hardly covers itself in glory vis a vis services from parts of the UK other than England. Whilst the domestic network is perfectly good, there is only 1 n/s international route from Scotland (EDI-CDG), and everything else involves an undesirable trip to LHR/LGW/BHX/MAN on the way.
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St. Crispin- Interesting reply. I cant remember seeing the Singapore flag on any VS aircraft but when I go to work tomorrow I will have a look.
I appreciate that VS operates only from England and can hardly be classed as "Britain's flag carrier",but you obviously have a short memory or would you class those tail fins as flying the flag and dont forget that BA is run by an Australian!!
I presume by the flying sausage you mean the A340-600? Its true that there have been a few problems but then VS are the first operator of the type and it has been in service for less than two weeks. Enough said I think.
Strake was commenting on the poor service received on BA and I was simply pointing out that there is an alternative and in my opinion a better alternative but then we are all entitled to our own opinion, are we not?
I appreciate that VS operates only from England and can hardly be classed as "Britain's flag carrier",but you obviously have a short memory or would you class those tail fins as flying the flag and dont forget that BA is run by an Australian!!
I presume by the flying sausage you mean the A340-600? Its true that there have been a few problems but then VS are the first operator of the type and it has been in service for less than two weeks. Enough said I think.
Strake was commenting on the poor service received on BA and I was simply pointing out that there is an alternative and in my opinion a better alternative but then we are all entitled to our own opinion, are we not?
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NEF- I agree BA could do better (Gla-US?) but can u imagine a Saab operating in Virgin colours with a pedicurist and hairdresser on board? I wonder would the folk in SYY think THAT more acceptable on a sunday!!!!!! At least BA do the Bread and butter routes not just get starry eyed with the bright light routes.
Also BA operates edi-cdg/ham/fra/ and codeshares via one world to dub. Ex GLA-haj/muc/mad/bcn/cdg/ork and again codeshares in dub and ex abz-dub and cdg.
Northern Star-Do you see the german flag on an lh tailfin, the italian flag on an az tailfin or indeed the irish flag on an ei tailfin? NO. a flag carrier is more then dabbling it on a tailfin (or come to that a wing tip). As for service being better on vs, yes we are indeed entitled to our own opions, but surely having manicurist/pedicurist/hairdresser/barman etc allows for the chance of more workers being unhappy and making that evident to the pax.
No you are not drapped in the singapore flag but the Flying Cardigan certainly has acquired a beautiful taste for the Singapore Sling! Why aren't Vs in an Alliance? Theres only so many combinations of through traffic on NRT/LON/LOS or JNB/LON/LOS that you can catch. You don't even through ticket for NRT/LON/BRU with VEX? It doesn't offer the pax a very wide range of routes or alternatives. does it?
Also BA operates edi-cdg/ham/fra/ and codeshares via one world to dub. Ex GLA-haj/muc/mad/bcn/cdg/ork and again codeshares in dub and ex abz-dub and cdg.
Northern Star-Do you see the german flag on an lh tailfin, the italian flag on an az tailfin or indeed the irish flag on an ei tailfin? NO. a flag carrier is more then dabbling it on a tailfin (or come to that a wing tip). As for service being better on vs, yes we are indeed entitled to our own opions, but surely having manicurist/pedicurist/hairdresser/barman etc allows for the chance of more workers being unhappy and making that evident to the pax.
No you are not drapped in the singapore flag but the Flying Cardigan certainly has acquired a beautiful taste for the Singapore Sling! Why aren't Vs in an Alliance? Theres only so many combinations of through traffic on NRT/LON/LOS or JNB/LON/LOS that you can catch. You don't even through ticket for NRT/LON/BRU with VEX? It doesn't offer the pax a very wide range of routes or alternatives. does it?
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St. Crispin
"Also BA operates edi-cdg/ham/fra/ and codeshares via one world to dub. Ex GLA-haj/muc/mad/bcn/cdg/ork and again codeshares in dub and ex abz-dub and cdg."
Yes, but as I said before, apart from EDI-CDG, GLA-ORK, and obviously EI codeshres, these flights are not non-stop. They all involve a stop at BHX, MAN or BRS where pax must get off, hang about in the lounge for an hour, and then get back on again - not much fun!
"Also BA operates edi-cdg/ham/fra/ and codeshares via one world to dub. Ex GLA-haj/muc/mad/bcn/cdg/ork and again codeshares in dub and ex abz-dub and cdg."
Yes, but as I said before, apart from EDI-CDG, GLA-ORK, and obviously EI codeshres, these flights are not non-stop. They all involve a stop at BHX, MAN or BRS where pax must get off, hang about in the lounge for an hour, and then get back on again - not much fun!
Last edited by nef; 14th Aug 2002 at 13:20.
Paxing All Over The World
Can BA really call itself the 'flag carrier'?
It is a traded public company with no ownership controls of the government. It is the largest carrier from the UK, is that all that is required to hold this mythic moniker 'flag carrier'? They might do the small routes but if the real crunch comes would they not sell them off / drop them, as they have done with some?
Since the days of privatisation around the world, I think that this is no longer something that folks can crow about or use to their advantage.
By the way, Strake, if you [I]are[I/] an airmiles slut, you would find that after a trip or two to Japan, you would be climbing the ranks in Flying Club very quickly!
It is a traded public company with no ownership controls of the government. It is the largest carrier from the UK, is that all that is required to hold this mythic moniker 'flag carrier'? They might do the small routes but if the real crunch comes would they not sell them off / drop them, as they have done with some?
Since the days of privatisation around the world, I think that this is no longer something that folks can crow about or use to their advantage.
By the way, Strake, if you [I]are[I/] an airmiles slut, you would find that after a trip or two to Japan, you would be climbing the ranks in Flying Club very quickly!
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PAXboy
QUOTE]By the way, Strake, if you [I]are[I/] an airmiles slut, you would find that after a trip or two to Japan, you would be climbing the ranks in Flying Club very quickly[/QUOTE]
Yup, and BA have just shovelled 24000 into the old account.....
QUOTE]By the way, Strake, if you [I]are[I/] an airmiles slut, you would find that after a trip or two to Japan, you would be climbing the ranks in Flying Club very quickly[/QUOTE]
Yup, and BA have just shovelled 24000 into the old account.....
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NEF- I agree about how annoying it is hanging around in aforementioned transits however what does VS offer you.( Since that is what this thread has turned into)
PAXBOY- again, I agree with you... but neither does physically flying the flag on your aircraft make you a 'Flag Carrier'(be it wavy, on the wing tips etc). what does make a flag carrier? Since I didn't introduce that phrase, but reacted to it, I would be interested to know what others think...is there such a thing, nowadays, as a flag carrier? Is it just a media term? Does it mean the Largest carrier.........? I doubt if BA would get rid of all its bread and butter routes, provided they balance out, these are the flights that bring the folks from cornwall to antigua or the lads from newcastle to cape town, I don't think this talk of BA becoming a longhaul operator only, has much currency.
STRAKE- thats a roundtrip to New York for You!!
PAXBOY- again, I agree with you... but neither does physically flying the flag on your aircraft make you a 'Flag Carrier'(be it wavy, on the wing tips etc). what does make a flag carrier? Since I didn't introduce that phrase, but reacted to it, I would be interested to know what others think...is there such a thing, nowadays, as a flag carrier? Is it just a media term? Does it mean the Largest carrier.........? I doubt if BA would get rid of all its bread and butter routes, provided they balance out, these are the flights that bring the folks from cornwall to antigua or the lads from newcastle to cape town, I don't think this talk of BA becoming a longhaul operator only, has much currency.
STRAKE- thats a roundtrip to New York for You!!
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I'm afraid I have to whole-heartedly agree with strake.
A personal view perhaps, but for me, BA have never regained the gloss which they once had.
As a customer, they seemed to go through a period of enormous complacency during the past fews years i.e. we are the worlds .. .. etc That did get addressed but I find their service is just too hit and miss. BA introduced (and still do) many innovative features to their service which kept them up there at the top.
Other carriers have sadly caught up and overtaken.
A personal view perhaps, but for me, BA have never regained the gloss which they once had.
As a customer, they seemed to go through a period of enormous complacency during the past fews years i.e. we are the worlds .. .. etc That did get addressed but I find their service is just too hit and miss. BA introduced (and still do) many innovative features to their service which kept them up there at the top.
Other carriers have sadly caught up and overtaken.
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Just my tuppence ha'penny: I only fly BA LHR-ABZ on average every 3 weeks or so. However, probably about 50% of flights are delayed (sometimes to my advantage when I get on an earlier flight that's been delayed).
The big question is why have BA got rid of the scone with clotted cream and jam and replaced it with the "all day deli", alternatively called a sarnie in a bag?
GwynM
The big question is why have BA got rid of the scone with clotted cream and jam and replaced it with the "all day deli", alternatively called a sarnie in a bag?
GwynM
Paxing All Over The World
Last first, the Deli Bag is simpler to handle for CC. Also the bag provides a waste bag for the remains of the meal, again speeding things for CC but also for ground staff. If there are no trays to slot in and out of carts and no carts to load? The savings must be significant.
As to being an AirMiles or (BA Miles as one should say!) slut, then I can be as bad as anyone else.
I happen to be on the VS scheme more than I am on my BA scheme. I won't go into the pros and cons of the schemes as that is another issue.
All big companies must go through periods of bad service. No organisation can stay at the top. There are many reasons for this in my view, but all of them are related to Human Beings
You can think of any large company in ANY field. Hotels and catering, car manufacture and so forth. In this case, BA got sloppy, and VS came along. BA reacted and got better. In the mid-90s folks were saying that VS had lost the lead and now they have come back strongly. Your decision simply has to be whether to stay with a company in the low times or hop to another.
As to being an AirMiles or (BA Miles as one should say!) slut, then I can be as bad as anyone else.
I happen to be on the VS scheme more than I am on my BA scheme. I won't go into the pros and cons of the schemes as that is another issue.All big companies must go through periods of bad service. No organisation can stay at the top. There are many reasons for this in my view, but all of them are related to Human Beings
You can think of any large company in ANY field. Hotels and catering, car manufacture and so forth. In this case, BA got sloppy, and VS came along. BA reacted and got better. In the mid-90s folks were saying that VS had lost the lead and now they have come back strongly. Your decision simply has to be whether to stay with a company in the low times or hop to another.
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GwynM
I know this is going to bore the pants off everyone. The Scone and Clotted Cream was afternoon tea and about the only catering we did that was ever half decent.
Sad to say I did a flight yesterday which was afternoon tea on the paperwork but turned out to be a garlicy chicken salad.
I think BA have sneaked the scone away very quietly cos they didn't even tell me and I have to serve it.
Big shame.
Also you are never allowed to change your mind after refusing scone and cream because it goes off too quick.... honestly
I know this is going to bore the pants off everyone. The Scone and Clotted Cream was afternoon tea and about the only catering we did that was ever half decent.
Sad to say I did a flight yesterday which was afternoon tea on the paperwork but turned out to be a garlicy chicken salad.
I think BA have sneaked the scone away very quietly cos they didn't even tell me and I have to serve it.
Big shame.
Also you are never allowed to change your mind after refusing scone and cream because it goes off too quick.... honestly
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ABZ-LHR with a hangover
Apr00 - BA catering saved my life... early start no brekkie hangover four hour meeting dash to airport CFM whining in my ear
then... the scone and clotted cream [and loads of other goodies]
mmmmmmm.....
Compared to the pathetic crap you get in Y in EI [and, I hear, in J too] it was heaven...
then... the scone and clotted cream [and loads of other goodies]
mmmmmmm.....
Compared to the pathetic crap you get in Y in EI [and, I hear, in J too] it was heaven...
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BA & Qantas too
Strake,
I agree with you entirely on the "local" cabin crew. On my recent experiences with BA, mainly on the HKG route, the HK Chinese crew members have been quite excellent (worthy even of Cathay) and the contrast with many of the British team members has been very noticeable. There are still some good British BA cabin crew out there obviously, but they seem to be a minority these days.
By the way, I just had a very similar experience on Qantas between HKG and SYD - again, the "Chinese" crew are far better than the white ones. And I'm sorry to be racist about this, but the "Chinese" crew on Qantas seemed from their English fluency and Australian accents to be as Australian as the ethnically "European" crew - it was just their attitude that was so much better.
I agree with you entirely on the "local" cabin crew. On my recent experiences with BA, mainly on the HKG route, the HK Chinese crew members have been quite excellent (worthy even of Cathay) and the contrast with many of the British team members has been very noticeable. There are still some good British BA cabin crew out there obviously, but they seem to be a minority these days.
By the way, I just had a very similar experience on Qantas between HKG and SYD - again, the "Chinese" crew are far better than the white ones. And I'm sorry to be racist about this, but the "Chinese" crew on Qantas seemed from their English fluency and Australian accents to be as Australian as the ethnically "European" crew - it was just their attitude that was so much better.
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Having done LHR/NRT quite often in the last few years with both Virgin and BA, I think the service is pretty much the same with both carriers. The only real difference is that when Virgin screw up, they do it mightily!
Incidentally, for the much flaunted Virgin massages in upper class, I've only had about a 10% sucess rate in getting one despite being asked to be woken up if my turn came. My wife's sucess rate is about 15%, and she's got the Virgin gold card.
cur
Incidentally, for the much flaunted Virgin massages in upper class, I've only had about a 10% sucess rate in getting one despite being asked to be woken up if my turn came. My wife's sucess rate is about 15%, and she's got the Virgin gold card.
cur