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Airlines refuse to scrap ‘no-show’ clauses for passengers

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Airlines refuse to scrap ‘no-show’ clauses for passengers

Old 28th Jun 2019, 01:08
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Paxing All Over The World
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Airlines refuse to scrap ‘no-show’ clauses for passengers

The Guardian article references Which? magazine
Airlines including British Airways and Virgin Atlantic have resisted calls to remove “no-show” clauses, which bump passengers off the second half of a return trip, despite heavy criticism from regulators and calls for a ban.

Consumer body Which? wrote to nine airlines in December, warning they may be breaking consumer laws by keeping clauses that cancel the second leg of a return flight if a passenger misses the first leg of the same booking, forcing some customers to pay hundreds of pounds for replacement flights. In many cases airlines can sell on the same tickets, doubling their earnings for one seat.

Of the nine airlines, only Flybe told Which? it would change the clauses, although it has not removed them completely. The airlines that retained the clauses were British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Emirates, KLM, Air France, Singapore, Qatar and Swiss.
I am not surprised as this earns them money. If people want 'headline' prices that are low - then the money will come from somewhere else.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 04:27
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Six years ago I had to miss the outbound sector due to some business I had to deal with. I had been travelling on holiday with my wife. So I bought a new return trip and travelled alone. When my wife arrived at the airport to come home she was asked where I was and it was implied I could have travelled with her. Airline? Air France.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 07:25
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Originally Posted by Espada III View Post
Six years ago I had to miss the outbound sector due to some business I had to deal with. I had been travelling on holiday with my wife. So I bought a new return trip and travelled alone. When my wife arrived at the airport to come home she was asked where I was and it was implied I could have travelled with her. Airline? Air France.
I suspect it may be the case that a booking is only cancelled if all the passengers on it are no-shows for the outbound leg.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 09:52
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I nearly had a similar problem as yours Espada III. Fortunately, it worked out in the end. But it made me wonder how the airline would have reacted to my spouse turning up but not me? Never got to find out. It has made me consider making separate bookings in future. After all, it's not as if one obtains any discount when making a booking for two.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 01:55
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Once a source of income has been established, any company is reluctant to withdraw it - as the new source will attract far more attention. FR have learnt this but, usually, manage to tough it out. The legacies don't have as much leeway.

The reason that I always book us together, even if slightly more costly on the baggage issue, I know that if there is a cancellation or imminent offloading, then we show up as two people.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 09:32
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
It has made me consider making separate bookings in future. After all, it's not as if one obtains any discount when making a booking for two.
The airlines get their cut of that, too, by charging an 'administration fee' for each itinerary; £19 on Easyjet for example. So you pay more for splitting the flights.

They really are unscrupulous.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 15:15
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Which appears to be clueless about how airline ticketing works and its no wonder that the airlines refuse.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 17:16
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Originally Posted by MCDU2 View Post
Which appears to be clueless about how airline ticketing works and its no wonder that the airlines refuse.
It sounds to me as if Which understands exactly how airline ticketing works, and that's what they are objecting to.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 18:57
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They certainly DO understand how it work but I think that attempting to change it - will only rearrange the deck chairs. Flying costs a lot more money than the headline price but everyone has learnt that if you make the headline price realistic and include everything (20th century style) you will sell far fewer seats. So they lower the headline price. Airlines are not the only ones who do this, railway companies now prince in airline terms of future date/travel now.

For decades car manufacturers put very few things on the base model in order to get the price down and get you into the showroom. Then the salesman went to work to get you to upgrade - same thing. As we (and Which?) know - everyone looks at the bottom line price before booking and if you have not read the Ts&Cs, before you ticked the box saying that you had - you are still bound by them.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 19:24
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Some airline. T&cs must be perilously close to breaching the unfair contracts act
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 19:31
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Originally Posted by El Bunto View Post
The airlines get their cut of that, too, by charging an 'administration fee' for each itinerary; £19 on Easyjet for example. So you pay more for splitting the flights.

They really are unscrupulous.
easyJet and Ryanair don't apply any no show rules, you can take the return flight without taking the outward. I've done it myself just a few wees ago on FR.

Also, what is this admin fee you speak of? I have never paid that to make a booking on easyJet.

At the end of the day when you buy a ticket on an airline with no show fees you agree to fly the sectors in the order you have booked them in or your fare will be recalculated to reflect the actual routing you take. Your purchased fare is based on that specific combination of flights you chose and said you would be taking. If you then go to change your flights the why would you not expect to pay a fee? How does the airline know you are going to take the return flight if you haven't taken the first one? Why is it so bad that they might go on to sell thier seat again to someone else who says they are going to turn up? Are they just to assume you have made your way there by other means? Are airlines now expected to just keep empty seats free in the off chance that person who never flew in 3 weeks ago is going to turn up? The number of people these things affect must be extremely small in the grand scheme of things. Why do the rules need to change for those who don't want to follow them?
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 19:44
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Originally Posted by edi_local View Post
How does the airline know you are going to take the return flight if you haven't taken the first one?
They can reasonably assume that, as you've paid for your ticket. If their assumption turns out to be wrong, well they are no worse off as they've still got the money that you paid for your ticket. So in either event, they have lost nothing.

Are they just to assume you have made your way there by other means? Are airlines now expected to just keep empty seats free in the off chance that person who never flew in 3 weeks ago is going to turn up?
See above.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 09:22
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I was booked to fly IOM/LCY then LHR/HND the next day return on one ticket in "advance purchase" F (known as A for some reason, still relatively expensive and changeable for a fee). If something went wrong with the first leg I was relying on the airline to get me to Tokyo on another flight. In Tokyo I would join a photo tour departing HND two days after my arrival so some tuck was built into the schedule. The weather in LCY was looking iffy for the day of departure so two days before I called the airline to see whether I could move the IOM/LCY flight forward a day. Yes, the kind lady said but the ticket would need to be repriced, and you can guess what that will cost. And of course to make my own arrangements to get to London and not fly the first sector would invalidate the whole ticket.

As it happened all went well (as it usually does....). After holding for an hour to allow a snow storm to go through we landed on a thankfully wet runway at LCY. But I cannot understand the airline's unwillingness to accommodate a change which would, in the event of a problem, make life easier for them. And indeed were I able to not use my first sector and tell them so, give them an opportunity to resell the seat. And I was willing to pay them for another seat the day before....

What the airlines hated was people booking return tickets and throwing away one or more the return sectors to get the overall trip price down. What we are discussing here is no show for outbound resulting in then cancelling the inbound. Yes flexibility to change flights comes at a significantly greater price, but we are not talking about flexibility. If a passenger (sorry "customer") communicates the intention to give up a paid for sector outbound to the obvious advantage of the airline concerned why should the inbound sector be automatically cancelled?
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 15:00
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Originally Posted by edi_local View Post

Also, what is this admin fee you speak of? I have never paid that to make a booking on easyJet.
According to easyJet's website, they do charge an Admin Fee (currently £16 per booking), but it's included in the total Air Fare price, as is any Govt Tax.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 00:17
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Originally Posted by Haven't a clue View Post

What the airlines hated was people booking return tickets and throwing away one or more the return sectors to get the overall trip price down. What we are discussing here is no show for outbound resulting in then cancelling the inbound. Yes flexibility to change flights comes at a significantly greater price, but we are not talking about flexibility. If a passenger (sorry "customer") communicates the intention to give up a paid for sector outbound to the obvious advantage of the airline concerned why should the inbound sector be automatically cancelled?
Much less common these days with Lo-Cos, demand pricing etc but I used to fly to Bristol every couple of weeks on BA/Brymon. It was much cheaper to book two opposite return journey spread over a month (so EDI-BRS on a Monday, with BRS to EDI on the Thursday 2 weeks later and BRS-EDI on the first Thursday with that return being on the Monday 2 weeks ). On a few occasions, I booked two returns where I had no intention of using the retrun legs, but it was cheaper than a single return trip. Then a long came Go then Easyjet and the whole world changed
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 08:18
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ah yes - I remember those days - we had people who were making the same trips on a very regular basis and so it made sense to play that game. On some routes the flow was very tidal through the week (eg peak in/out of ABZ on a Mon/Fri) and so by booking reruns from both ends you could always get the best deal - you just had to keep all the tickets (none of this e ticket rubbish) in order!!
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 14:27
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Back when I worked, one had to stay over the weekend to get a cheap return.
After a monumental cock-up by my airline, I got to know the MD and made an arrangement
whereby if I booked direct with his secretary I could travel at the cheapest fare.
Thereafter I booked a year in advance, and threw away a certain number of tickets.
I doubt that one could do that now.
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