Compensation question
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Please, do you really want to put a flight crew in the position where if they divert it could cost their company €600 x (the number of passengers). A quarter of a million euros? If I was ill I wouldn't want them to think twice.
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HeartyMeatballs Sorry, but you originally said "...if my flight diverts because of a medical..." and that was the sole point I addressed. Diversions are exceptional and on that basis, I'd certainly support an airline's according refusal to pay compensation.
ExXB Agreed. Hopefully, no-one with a modicum of even near-sanity would question a Captain's decision for a medical related diversion. I'm entirely with you on that!
ExXB Agreed. Hopefully, no-one with a modicum of even near-sanity would question a Captain's decision for a medical related diversion. I'm entirely with you on that!
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I think the whole thing is a joke to be honest with you. But this is exactly what could happen as EU261 encompasses more and more things and excludes more things as an exceptional circumstance. When it does you will see aircraft continuing instead of diverting. Put simply the cost of a life to an airline (and we all know they'll have a figure on this) is probably less than a plane full of EU261 claims. Given what I said earlier, all it would take would be someone with deep pockets and a lawyer to take on their claim. If they win then you could find that medical diversions are no longer an extraordinary circumstance.
I say again, you reap what you sow.
I say again, you reap what you sow.
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As written (ie before the ECJ's judgements are superimposed over the top of text of the badly written Regulation) the Regulation only talks about delays in departure, not arrival.
The ECJ says that the Regulation should also apply to delays of over three hours, but has not included an interpretation if this is on departure or arrival.
So a flight with an on time departure which diverts isn't covered by the Regulation (One could argue). Can hardly wait for the lawyers to argue this one.
The ECJ says that the Regulation should also apply to delays of over three hours, but has not included an interpretation if this is on departure or arrival.
So a flight with an on time departure which diverts isn't covered by the Regulation (One could argue). Can hardly wait for the lawyers to argue this one.
Gender Faculty Specialist
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ExXB
It's all been clarified.
It was the Henning judgment from September 2014 which stipulates that “arrival time” for the purposes of calculating a delay is the moment that at least one of the doors of the aircraft is opened, the assumption being that this is the moment a passenger is permitted to leave the aircraft.
That is the current situation.
It's all been clarified.
It was the Henning judgment from September 2014 which stipulates that “arrival time” for the purposes of calculating a delay is the moment that at least one of the doors of the aircraft is opened, the assumption being that this is the moment a passenger is permitted to leave the aircraft.
That is the current situation.
Paxing All Over The World
Chesty Morgan
Where did I 'claim' anything? You quote me from post #21 and I used the word 'think', making no claim. So no example or evidence required.
If you would like the thinking behind my thought, I shall happily oblige.
Please substantiate this claim with some real world examples or first hand evidence.
If you would like the thinking behind my thought, I shall happily oblige.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Right, so you have nothing. You actually said.
That's a definitive statement.
I am very cynical so I think two things:[LIST=1][*]Some aircrew WILL feel pressured into departing with something (small) adrift
Paxing All Over The World
It is a definitive statement of my opinion based on human experience.
You may call it what you like but it is not a 'claim' it is an opinion.This website forum is for discussion and that was one of my contributions. Do feel free to ignore me. I also think there is a BLOCK feature that you can use so that you will never see my postings again. 
Right, so you have nothing.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Pretty poor contribution. I suppose that you think you're some kind of expert because you sit in the back or airliners a bit and read PPRUNE daily.
Unfortunately you can't back up your statement with any facts so you've just made yourself look a bit silly. I enjoy watching that happen.
Unfortunately you can't back up your statement with any facts so you've just made yourself look a bit silly. I enjoy watching that happen.
Paxing All Over The World
It is true that I have been sitting in airliners for over 50 years but I have been observing human nature longer. It is also true that a very close relative of mine has been in the airline industry for over 20 years.
I did not say my statement needed facts, as it was an opinion, but you always take it to be something else. I have offered to give you all the knowledge on which I based my opinion but you want something that I never said I had.
Here is the full text of what I said and not just the part that you used which was the bullet point:
Please contime to enjoy PPRuNe.
I did not say my statement needed facts, as it was an opinion, but you always take it to be something else. I have offered to give you all the knowledge on which I based my opinion but you want something that I never said I had.
Here is the full text of what I said and not just the part that you used which was the bullet point:
I am very cynical so I think two things:
- Some aircrew WILL feel pressured into departing with something (small) adrift. We are human beings.
Gender Faculty Specialist
I am saying your statement needs facts.
None of which qualifies you to make definitive statements about airline operations. From your quote it is obvious that you don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do.
It is true that I have been sitting in airliners for over 50 years but I have been observing human nature longer. It is also true that a very close relative of mine has been in the airline industry for over 20 years.
Paxing All Over The World
Before the Mods can this: "I think" is not a "definitive statement about airline operations" You obviously know considerably more than me about everything, including what I am not thinking and not saying.
Gender Faculty Specialist
"WILL" is, however, a definitive statement.
The reason you're not saying anything is because you have no examples, first hand experience or knowledge of what you're talking about. You made a baseless, ignorant comment, which effectively calls into question the professionalism of aircrew and highlights your lack of knowledge of certain operational aspects, now you're back-pedalling and trying to play semantic games.
I do know considerably more than you about airline operations.
The reason you're not saying anything is because you have no examples, first hand experience or knowledge of what you're talking about. You made a baseless, ignorant comment, which effectively calls into question the professionalism of aircrew and highlights your lack of knowledge of certain operational aspects, now you're back-pedalling and trying to play semantic games.
I do know considerably more than you about airline operations.
Paxing All Over The World
Oh dear.
I never said I had examples! You cannot ask for that which I did not say I had!
Nobody doubts that you know more about airline operations than me! I gave an opinion about human behaviour. No more and no less.
I never said I had examples! You cannot ask for that which I did not say I had!
Nobody doubts that you know more about airline operations than me! I gave an opinion about human behaviour. No more and no less.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Of course I can ask for examples. You made a statement you should be able to back it up. I'm asking you to do so. Evidence, knowledge, anything?
So far you have provided zero substantiation.
So far you have provided zero substantiation.
Son of Slot
Super Senior Moderator
Super Senior Moderator
Both of you have been here long enough to know the rules. In PPRuNe we have a well known dictum: Play the ball not the Player.
If PAXboy has erred, I think he has made his original intentions clear.
If Chesty Morgan wants to continue to flog this issue, please don't because you are looking very like a troll and they don't live long.
Now - has anyone got anything else constructive to say about compensation?
If PAXboy has erred, I think he has made his original intentions clear.
If Chesty Morgan wants to continue to flog this issue, please don't because you are looking very like a troll and they don't live long.
Now - has anyone got anything else constructive to say about compensation?
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mattman
But at further scrutiny see that the one document (they sent) and the other document (EU website) are different and seems to be doctored, so that the delay in the section one has been removed.
Can you remove your personal details and post up the relevant part or the two documents you are referring to.
Cannot see the question being answered with any accuracy otherwise.
Sounds suspicious tho.
But at further scrutiny see that the one document (they sent) and the other document (EU website) are different and seems to be doctored, so that the delay in the section one has been removed.
Can you remove your personal details and post up the relevant part or the two documents you are referring to.
Cannot see the question being answered with any accuracy otherwise.
Sounds suspicious tho.
Paxing All Over The World
Business article in The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/business...1-compensation
This sums up what many have said in this thread, although it does not mention the data claim that has been mentioned here - that the fines have not made any significant difference to the amount of delays. That seems to be due to the complexity of the air space.
Airline passengers have had too much of a good thing over delay payouts
Take, for example, a colleague recently back from the Costa Dorada this summer. His Ryanair flight from Barcelona to London was delayed for more than three hours. He has since obtained €1,000 (£853) compensation for himself, wife and two children. How much did he pay for those flights? Less than £400. He feels like he has been given a free holiday.
This sums up what many have said in this thread, although it does not mention the data claim that has been mentioned here - that the fines have not made any significant difference to the amount of delays. That seems to be due to the complexity of the air space.
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Why would you expect OTP to improve significantly when delay compensation only kicks in for delays over 3 hours. When a delay is under 3 hrs what incentive is there for the airlines to reduce it further. EU261 is only likely to reduce delays of over 3 hours so what do you expect?