LHR ~ PER = 18 hrs, says Qantas
Fly it to Dubai instead and plug into the EK network, possibly do an onward flight to London from there as a code share with Emirates and carry some of their passengers for a change.
The extra fuel used compared to uplifting en route will require a higher airfare and oil prices may not stay at their current low levels.
18 hours would need a low density seating configuration to be bearable in economy, possibly the 8 across one which it was originally designed for.
The A350 in 9 across is still quite comfortable as is the B777. This route would have mainly British and Australian passengers onboard, countries which rank among the worlds highest rates for obesity.
I would pay extra to have a stop on the way over, 18 hours in the middle seat sandwiched between a couple of porkers would put me off flying forever.
The extra fuel used compared to uplifting en route will require a higher airfare and oil prices may not stay at their current low levels.
18 hours would need a low density seating configuration to be bearable in economy, possibly the 8 across one which it was originally designed for.
The A350 in 9 across is still quite comfortable as is the B777. This route would have mainly British and Australian passengers onboard, countries which rank among the worlds highest rates for obesity. I would pay extra to have a stop on the way over, 18 hours in the middle seat sandwiched between a couple of porkers would put me off flying forever.
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"Methinks that one factor in planning this is to get some of their European traffic back"
but that's their own fault - no-one forced them to cut a deal with EK and reduce their long-haul flights - it was the economics that did it
Flying a few pax LHR-Perth is unlikely to make them any serious return at all
TBH I can see them cutting even more of their international network if & when the oil price goes up again
but that's their own fault - no-one forced them to cut a deal with EK and reduce their long-haul flights - it was the economics that did it
Flying a few pax LHR-Perth is unlikely to make them any serious return at all
TBH I can see them cutting even more of their international network if & when the oil price goes up again
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Heathrow Harry
I agree. When they cut European flights for the M.E. I thought it strange. On the one hand, they could have spotted the future and put their routes in a safer place - but only time will tell.
When I saw this announcement, I again thought it strange. Whilst there are a fair number of connections to be made, they must be really sure of the numbers to dedicate machines and crew to this ULH route.
but that's their own fault - no-one forced them to cut a deal with EK and reduce their long-haul flights - it was the economics that did it
Flying a few pax LHR-Perth is unlikely to make them any serious return at all
Flying a few pax LHR-Perth is unlikely to make them any serious return at all
When I saw this announcement, I again thought it strange. Whilst there are a fair number of connections to be made, they must be really sure of the numbers to dedicate machines and crew to this ULH route.
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I mentioned this topic to a good friend who is a travel agent. She said they get lots of calls about booking a particular kind of flight to Australia. "I don't want the flight that stops, you know? I want the one that goes straight there. I don't want the flight that takes 24 hours."
I'm told that all agents are used to this.
I'm told that all agents are used to this.
A few stats:
In 2014 according to the International passenger Survey 1.057m Australians visited the UK - I don't know how many came from Perth.
430,000 Brits visited Australia as their main destination - the actual total will be a little higher as only one destination is given per outbound trip so a stopover en route to Auckland will be excluded.
In the 2011/2 Perth Airport annual report (the latest I can get hold of) said that there were 175,000 British arriving in Perth in the year.
Double all the above to get single journeys.
I would estimate at lease 700,000 annual journeys - does anyone have actual data?
A daily 777LR or 350 would carry about 150,000 pax p.a.s so it would only need to capture about 20% of the market - if the yield was high enough.
However a non stop route would really be aimed at the business market and this is only 7.5% of the UK - Oz route (I don't have data for London - Perth but I would imagine it to be broadly similar). This compares with 21% to the USA & 29.3% to Japan. I would estimate just over 50,000 business pax p.a. or about 70 per direction per day. Some will want to stop off en route or prefer ME3 or Asian carriers. Then again many leisure pax stay on the plane at SYD or DXB, about half in my very limited experience. (They are mad in my view but its only my view).
It looks marginal to me, but it could just work.
In 2014 according to the International passenger Survey 1.057m Australians visited the UK - I don't know how many came from Perth.
430,000 Brits visited Australia as their main destination - the actual total will be a little higher as only one destination is given per outbound trip so a stopover en route to Auckland will be excluded.
In the 2011/2 Perth Airport annual report (the latest I can get hold of) said that there were 175,000 British arriving in Perth in the year.
Double all the above to get single journeys.
I would estimate at lease 700,000 annual journeys - does anyone have actual data?
A daily 777LR or 350 would carry about 150,000 pax p.a.s so it would only need to capture about 20% of the market - if the yield was high enough.
However a non stop route would really be aimed at the business market and this is only 7.5% of the UK - Oz route (I don't have data for London - Perth but I would imagine it to be broadly similar). This compares with 21% to the USA & 29.3% to Japan. I would estimate just over 50,000 business pax p.a. or about 70 per direction per day. Some will want to stop off en route or prefer ME3 or Asian carriers. Then again many leisure pax stay on the plane at SYD or DXB, about half in my very limited experience. (They are mad in my view but its only my view).
It looks marginal to me, but it could just work.
Last edited by Peter47; 15th Oct 2015 at 20:41.
Why is it 18hrs?
London to Perth is 7813 nautical miles (great circle)
So that's 434 MPH average. Seems a bit slow.
London to Perth is 7813 nautical miles (great circle)
So that's 434 MPH average. Seems a bit slow.
Son of Slot
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Turin got a bad case of something and he is now out of the thread for a while and been served a Red card. If he doesn't feel better he has a few options.
And just when I thought the forum was bumbling along nicely ...
And just when I thought the forum was bumbling along nicely ...
Son of Slot
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Thanks Hotel Tango I appreciate that but his reaction was waaay over the top for any 'roughness' on your part.
As readers will gather, I had to delete a post because of swearing. The protocol in PPRuNe is that we do not edit a post, we simply delete it. Swearing is forbidden as we want these forums to be polite and (hopefully) humorous.
Now, back to the topic: Would anyone like to comment as to why QF state 18 hours for the sector?
As readers will gather, I had to delete a post because of swearing. The protocol in PPRuNe is that we do not edit a post, we simply delete it. Swearing is forbidden as we want these forums to be polite and (hopefully) humorous.
Now, back to the topic: Would anyone like to comment as to why QF state 18 hours for the sector?
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Would anyone like to comment as to why QF state 18 hours for the sector
In a previous life when I did scheduling, once I'd figured things out with the AERAD charts I would add a percentage for luck to the route time.
The likes of Ryanair do this, if the route is an hour then schedule it for 1hr 15min then if one departs late one can arrive the other end on time or early and manipulate one's "on time" statistics whilst keeping the SLF happy ... if duped
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Back in 2003 I remember being on duty when an QANTAS Airbus A330 delivery flight flew from Toulouse to Melbourne direct. That flight, with prevailing tailwinds, took just a few minutes over 20 hours.
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London to Perth is 7813 nautical miles (great circle)
So that's 434 MPH average. Seems a bit slow.
So that's 434 MPH average. Seems a bit slow.
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18hrs is a scheduled block time, not a flight time, up to 30 minutes taxying out at LHR, 10 minutes taxying in at PER, flight time now down to some 17.3 hours whilst, alas, airways don't necessarily follow great circle distances
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19 hours to Perth
This is back in the news today, admittedly in the Mail.
Perth is not too bad a stop for me as I can get on to Auckland OK.
Starting from Heathrow ! Never ! So I will stick to 12+12 hours with
a stopover in the middle.
Perth is not too bad a stop for me as I can get on to Auckland OK.
Starting from Heathrow ! Never ! So I will stick to 12+12 hours with
a stopover in the middle.
Perth makes a lot of sense. QF avoid having to stopover at someone elses hub and you can go from Perth direct to ADL,DRW,SYD,CBR,BNE,MEL,CNS. They already have a sizeable crew base there so the question should be: why not Perth?
The problem with Virgin Australia taking you to Perth is that your bags would end up in Hobart. If they found them, they would send them off to Cairns.