Easy Jet bumping.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bristol.
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy Jet bumping.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 69
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a surprise!
With a network airline, if you misconnect, they will get you to your destination. With the LCCs, if you misconnect it's your fault - and they will sell your seat without compensating you. And they will charge you a premium for buying a last minute ticket on their next available flight.
There's a word for selling a seat three times ...
With a network airline, if you misconnect, they will get you to your destination. With the LCCs, if you misconnect it's your fault - and they will sell your seat without compensating you. And they will charge you a premium for buying a last minute ticket on their next available flight.
There's a word for selling a seat three times ...
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 39
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Overbooking is not just found on Easyjet though so it seems unfair to target them. I think more people are inclined to complain about easyJet because of the low cost model they operate.
Having worked on numerous airline ticket desks (none low cost carriers) over the years, overbooking is just something I never understood and it really does turn the passengers away from future bookings. I know they do it to ensure the flights go full, but at peak times like this it just means people being left behind as everyone turns up during the high season. At least in my experience they do and I've very often been the one on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse because of it. I'm sure some airline accountant will disagree with me and think it's the most wonderful thing ever thought up!
Having worked on numerous airline ticket desks (none low cost carriers) over the years, overbooking is just something I never understood and it really does turn the passengers away from future bookings. I know they do it to ensure the flights go full, but at peak times like this it just means people being left behind as everyone turns up during the high season. At least in my experience they do and I've very often been the one on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse because of it. I'm sure some airline accountant will disagree with me and think it's the most wonderful thing ever thought up!
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I presume that the overbooking quota is calculated only on the number of flexible tickets sold? I can't see the need to overbook non refundable seats since the money is in regardless whether the person turns up or not.
Easy Jet bumping.
Not a big easyJet fan here but I probably completed 500 legs with them over the past 10 year and never ever been faced with over booking. Had all sorts of "usual" to more wierd incidents that have usually been handled professionaly but my few over booking incidents have been with legacy carriers
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Prestwick, Scotland
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't quite understand this. In my days of legacy travel on business the airline did not get the revenue until the ticket was presented at check-in. So with no-shows they lost the revenue, and if they didn't / don't overbook the airline flies an unpaid for seat. Now with Easyjet they get the revenue at booking, do they not ? So they fly a paid for seat. So by overbooking they have resold a seat already paid for ? Having paid for the seat it's yours whether you fly or not ? By selling a seat already paid for is this not borderline or straight forward theft ? I understand Ryanair do not do this ? Happy to be corrected or enlightened on any of that.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No idea what to put as a title
I'm at dispatcher for easyjet At LGW and I can see the pros and cons of the overbooking. On every flight I always have people not turning up. Maybe a handful of times a week will I get everyone turn up. On average I get at least 4 people not turn up and they are normally online check-ins with no bags so most of the time they aren't even at the airport.
The SAGS as I believe they are called with easyjet are normally the last ones to check in at the airport and are normally the 1st at the gate understandably. Normally there are only 1 or 2 most I've had is 3 and to my knowledge I've not had to turn a SAG away due to people not turning up at the gate at gate closure.
One case that pops up a lot is that when easyjet have an escorted deportee they used to take up only 3 seats and they will result in people getting Sags. It seems now that they take up 6 seats. 1 deportee and 5 escorts! (blimey)
But as mentioned this isn't anything new. The long halls have done it for decades. I remeber getting asked when I was about 7 and I'm 26 now!
It might be worth mentioning that I have seen 186 tickets sold on an A320 which can carry only 180 but only 170 people have checked in. It's not a number I tend to look at but I will have a closer look tomorrow and I shall report back with the findings if anyone is interested
The SAGS as I believe they are called with easyjet are normally the last ones to check in at the airport and are normally the 1st at the gate understandably. Normally there are only 1 or 2 most I've had is 3 and to my knowledge I've not had to turn a SAG away due to people not turning up at the gate at gate closure.
One case that pops up a lot is that when easyjet have an escorted deportee they used to take up only 3 seats and they will result in people getting Sags. It seems now that they take up 6 seats. 1 deportee and 5 escorts! (blimey)
But as mentioned this isn't anything new. The long halls have done it for decades. I remeber getting asked when I was about 7 and I'm 26 now!
It might be worth mentioning that I have seen 186 tickets sold on an A320 which can carry only 180 but only 170 people have checked in. It's not a number I tend to look at but I will have a closer look tomorrow and I shall report back with the findings if anyone is interested
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Euroland
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It might be worth mentioning that I have seen 186 tickets sold on an A320 which can carry only 180
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 39
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets Aviat,
With regards to the deportees. The airline has no say on these or how many escorts they have. Some deportees require no escorts, they are usually ones who are returning because they have been asked to or have handed themselves in under some kind of amnesty, or they have just been refused entry to the UK and are going back on the next flight the airline which bought them in has.
1 or 2 escorts may take along someone who is less willing to leave but isn't considered a danger to others and the situation you described with the 6 seats being used would to me sound like a prisoner being deported back and to ensure safety they have enough security around them so they don't do a runner or kick off.
With regards to the deportees. The airline has no say on these or how many escorts they have. Some deportees require no escorts, they are usually ones who are returning because they have been asked to or have handed themselves in under some kind of amnesty, or they have just been refused entry to the UK and are going back on the next flight the airline which bought them in has.
1 or 2 escorts may take along someone who is less willing to leave but isn't considered a danger to others and the situation you described with the 6 seats being used would to me sound like a prisoner being deported back and to ensure safety they have enough security around them so they don't do a runner or kick off.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: With Wonko, outside the Asylum.
Age: 56
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's helpful to remember that the reason aircraft fly is to make money for the airline's shareholders.
To answer some of the points below:
The contract you enter into when you 'buy a seat' is a little more complex than it used to be, as there are now penalties for poor performance, but that aside, it doesn't reflect any ownership of or rights to a seat on the part of the traveller.
Thats quite a low oversell. Probably the finest overbooking system, at least that I've known, was one called COBRA, Capacity Optimisation Bringing Revenue Advantage, which used very refined algorithms, supplemented by live research, to calculate the probable no-shows. The over-sell could be in excess of 15% quite easily.
Sales are revenue, costs are more-or-less fixed, so if you can increase revenue without increasing costs, the shareholders will be happy. Moreover, low-cost airlines sell the last few seats for several times the price of the first ones sold, so this extra revenue comes in out of proportion to the majority of the sales. No one in the airline management will worry about whether a seat is 'paid for' in the sense above.
The things to get right about over-selling are that it must be advantageous in increasing revenue, and the costs of dealing with it when it goes wrong, such as compensating bumped-off passengers, and dealing with their eventual travel, must be less than the additional revenue, and the reputational harm must be acceptable.
And without over-booking, your tickets would all cost more.
To answer some of the points below:
Having paid for the seat it's yours whether you fly or not ? By selling a seat already paid for is this not borderline or straight forward theft ?
It might be worth mentioning that I have seen 186 tickets sold on an A320 which can carry only 180
Now with Easyjet they get the revenue at booking, do they not ? So they fly a paid for seat. So by overbooking they have resold a seat already paid for ?
The things to get right about over-selling are that it must be advantageous in increasing revenue, and the costs of dealing with it when it goes wrong, such as compensating bumped-off passengers, and dealing with their eventual travel, must be less than the additional revenue, and the reputational harm must be acceptable.
And without over-booking, your tickets would all cost more.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And without over-booking, your tickets would all cost more.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 69
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We never hear from the other side of the equation. Those passengers who are able to book a seat that otherwise would be unavailable. But no one actually knows when they are in this situation, or appreciates that they have travelled despite all of the seats having been sold. The numbers of these are not insignificant ...
Some of the network airlines use very sophisticated programs (as mentioned above) and they almost always get it right. Impossible to always be right but very few of their passengers are actually denied boarding. Asking for volunteers (and rewarding them) does keep this number down, and you wonder why the airline mentioned didn't do so (it is the law!).
However I doubt that the LCC model would invest the significant sums necessary to enhance their already quite limited systems. It likely isn't even possible. And when they do bump passengers their ability to 'put them on the next flight' is a lot less than network airlines. They need to seriously consider putting their customers on other airlines in these situations - something they have failed to do so far. Yes there is a cost in this, but if done right, the cost is going to be a lot less than the revenues overselling generates.
Some of the network airlines use very sophisticated programs (as mentioned above) and they almost always get it right. Impossible to always be right but very few of their passengers are actually denied boarding. Asking for volunteers (and rewarding them) does keep this number down, and you wonder why the airline mentioned didn't do so (it is the law!).
However I doubt that the LCC model would invest the significant sums necessary to enhance their already quite limited systems. It likely isn't even possible. And when they do bump passengers their ability to 'put them on the next flight' is a lot less than network airlines. They need to seriously consider putting their customers on other airlines in these situations - something they have failed to do so far. Yes there is a cost in this, but if done right, the cost is going to be a lot less than the revenues overselling generates.
Paxing All Over The World
As well as phone 'reservations' having gone, the carrier gets your money upfront - often months in advance of travel. We recently booked for a trip to Australia and there is no 'deposit and pay the balance 28 days before travel' anymore.
The benefit of that huge financial income and interest is cream on the top for ALL carriers. I have avoided working out how much interest we have lost by having a sizeable chunk of dosh out of our savings, a full nine months befre travel.
The benefit of that huge financial income and interest is cream on the top for ALL carriers. I have avoided working out how much interest we have lost by having a sizeable chunk of dosh out of our savings, a full nine months befre travel.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
at 0.5% bank interest rate on say a £ 1000 ticket that works out as £ 5 if you booked a year ahead.................................
less than the price of a pint in some London pubs these days
less than the price of a pint in some London pubs these days
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NI
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
less than the price of a pint in some London pubs these days
Anyway, a few years ago I worked with a couple of travelling software-salesmen in the USA. They advised me never to accept voluntary bumping in overbooking secnarios because invariably that offer involved a 'reward' tied to the airline e.g. a return ticket of their choosing and validity.
However involuntary bumping had, by law, to provide rebooking plus cold hard cash, redeemable anywhere ( even in London pubs ).
Apparently these gentlemen would play a type of poker at the airport gate, waiting to see who would break first and hoping it wasn't some 'dumb passenger' who went for the voluntary offer and spoiled it for the rest.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 69
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlines can, and do, offer compensation tied to further travel on their lines. However if you are involuntarily denied boarding you can insist on cash.
If they are asking for volunteers - it is up to you to negotiate whatever compensation (in cash and/or vouchers) you can.
The airline could offer twice as much in vouchers as they are required to pay you in cash.
If they are asking for volunteers - it is up to you to negotiate whatever compensation (in cash and/or vouchers) you can.
The airline could offer twice as much in vouchers as they are required to pay you in cash.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Me and Mrs H were bumped once by SQ in Singapore
Hotel, food and a very nice cash contribution to the holiday (about the price of a single ticket IIRC)
plus the joy of having to call the office in London and tell them I had an extra day in the Lion City and none of it was my fault....................
Hotel, food and a very nice cash contribution to the holiday (about the price of a single ticket IIRC)
plus the joy of having to call the office in London and tell them I had an extra day in the Lion City and none of it was my fault....................
Paxing All Over The World
Heathrow Harry
El Bunto
Exactly so. We loose 'several bottles of good wine' but their colelctive pot of money can earn enormous rates every 24 hours. I realise that the carriers would say 'that keeps the price of your ticket down' but since that is their answer to everything ...
at 0.5% bank interest rate on say a £ 1000 ticket that works out as £ 5 if you booked a year ahead.
Imagine the investments they can make with all that cash in the bank a year ahead...