Disruptive Passengers - MERGED

[Capot]

Two different stories as well. Who to believe?

Hmmm...tricky one, that. One story is the mother's, backed up by a number of nearby passengers, who presumably had no particular axe to grind and who might well have been on the airline's side if the airline's version were true, and the other version is a defensive statement put out by the airline's PR people, whose task is to avert legal action at all costs and who were relying on equally defensive information provided by the crew.

I do realise that on PPRuNe aircrew, especially cabin staff, are sacred, but in my book the balance of probability favours the mother in this incident.

[Avitor]

I would have felt quietly satisfied but, I am a selfish hombre`

[Hotel Tango]

Well, it was United after all. I stopped flying with them some years ago after they became (in my personal opinion) one of the worst airlines with some of the rudest cabin crews. This story doesn't surprise me at all. It is also a well known fact, which I'm sure CC are well aware of too, that crying infants generally fall asleep just prior to, or after, take off. They won't be heard again until the descent affect their ears.

[Laarbruch72]

The Brits are by no means alone

Nordic passengers can hit the bottle just as hard on their holiday flights and despite their reputation for being very lovely people they do share a disruptive rate comparable to the UK.

We do need to keep this in perspective mind you, the rates for Nordic and British passengers might be slightly higher than other countries but overall they're not massive. It's not like a serious incident occurs every day.

I fully agree with easyFlyer, long haul flights and premium / business cabins see just as many incidents as a rate, so I pay little heed to any snobbery from those that insist that cheaper tickets have somehow brought this on. Alcohol simply makes some people aggressive, be they well paid professionals or low paid casual workers.

[Capot]

It is also a well known fact,

Never been in sole charge of two grumpy, wide-awake, excited 2 year-olds on a flight to the Gulf, then?

It is also a well-known fact that when people say it's a well-known fact it probably isn't.

It's also a well known fact that Calpol is your friend, which probably explains the well known fact that kids fall asleep while flying, much the same as some pilots occasionally do, also a well-known fact.

[mockingjay]

The child would not sit therefore there would not be a secure cabin in order to depart. It is the child's guardian to ensure they are under control no matter how difficult they are. Despite writing the book on being a crappy airline I have to side with United in this instance.

People are quick to jump on the outrage bus when someone is old sitting at an emergency exit or that they are served alcohol when sitting there yet they're quite happy (seemingly) to have a 30lb+ child unsecured in the cabin.

Well done United.

[skyhighfallguy]

if I were crying loudly and in the aisles and not secured in my seat, would I be kicked off the flight?

yes


Things that were taken as proper public conduct years ago have been forgotten.

When I start my airline, I will have a video in the lounge and it will explain what acceptable behavior is. Failure to comport thy self accordingly would garner a law suit against the passenger.

I would also demand that everyone paid for a seat and occupied the seat throughout the flight when seatbelt sign was illuminated. No lap riders, it really isn't safe.

[crewmeal]

I've seen it all now.......

Gumball 300 flight to Nevada sees nude man, vodka, smoking and a pillow fight | Daily Mail Online

[WeeJeem]

Originally Posted by Virtually Every Tabloid On The Planet

Blackwood, who is seven months pregnant, was on the flight with her almost two-year-old son, Giorgio and his nanny. Her son is 23 months old, and is considered an infant by the airline's standards — so he was eligible to sit on her lap free of charge

Originally Posted by Sarah Blackwood

If I had the chance to put a seatbelt over him I would.

Executive Summary

• Yesterday, a person was unable to strap a 23month-old child onto their lap prior to an aircraft's takeoff.
• This failure was probably due to i) the size of the child and ii) a large pregnant belly getting in the way.
• After a while, the aircraft returned to the gate and the person, their child and their belly were disembarked due to safety regs.
• The aircraft then continued on its way, arriving 1hr 9min after its STA.
• The person decided to make a big public fuss despite the events being of their own making.
• The fate (and indeed the general utility) of the nanny remains unknown.
• Err, that's it.

[Hotel Tango]

Capot, my wife and I traveled extensively with our 2 boys starting when they were only 3 months old. Never had a problem. I have traveled regularly by air over 50 years and only once, yes ONCE, did a baby cry for longer than it's fair share. Most just fall asleep and it has nothing to do with calpol.

[ExXB]

I haven't, I don't read trash press.

[edi_local]

Surely that's a charter flight specifically for the Gumball participants?

As usual the Mail story has very little in the way of information.

[DaveReidUK]

While United clearly didn't handle the affair very well, the mother might want to reflect on what would have happened to an unrestrained 12kg child in the event of a RTO.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Disruptive passengers - what are airlines doing?

I see that Jet 2 have been very public and forthright with their new policy, and have put it into action already, what are other airlines doing to attempt to protect the majority and clamp down on this scourge?

Banned - Jet2 Majorca flight passenger hit with lifetime ban after 'exposing himself to cabin crew' | Daily Mail Online

And today dropped off en route - Jet2 Promise Zero Tolerance After Incident On Leeds Bradford Flight | Local | News - Pulse 1

[Planet Basher]

Having sat 2 seats away from a crying child for 4 hours solid I must congratulate the flight crew, it would be far worst to hear about a child and pregnant woman being beaten to death in mid air.

[India Four Two]

While United clearly didn't handle the affair very well, the mother might want to reflect on what would have happened to an unrestrained 12kg child in the event of a RTO.

Dave, you have a point, but the standard procedure for under-twos is sitting on a lap and being held.

I first heard about this incident on CBC's As It Happens and the mother came across as very rational. What staggered me is that she said that a United supervisor told her after the fact, that she should have put the seat belt around her AND her child!

I don't know about the FAA rules, but in Canada, TC rules explicitly forbid doing that. Common sense tells me the same thing.

Ironically, my daughter flew from Los Angeles to Vancouver this week, with my granddaughter on her lap. They were going to Vancouver to celebrate her second birthday, so on the way home, they've had to buy a seat for her!

[Laarbruch72]

What are other airlines doing? Pretty much the same thing as Jet2, they're banning return travel, diverting where necessary, and giving shorter term bans and life bans where appropriate and where possible. They're also working together with BATA, AOA and government to explore root causes and possible solutions. Most don't publicise it much, but you shouldn't assume from that that they're somehow ambivalent about it.

[DaveReidUK]

Interesting thread from 5 years ago about the inconsistent way the world's airlines and regulators approach the issue of restraining (or not) lap-sitting toddlers:

http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/405...eat-belts.html

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

No assumptions made at all.

[west lakes]

I was once told that crew can be reluctant to involve the police in some EU countries as there are no facilities to take statements at airports.

It means the crew being transported to and from local Police stations with the resulting delay in flights and implications for flight hours