Scared PAX
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Scared PAX
Taking a flight from FLL to Dulles and Im terrified because of all the talk on the Lost Air Asia thread where pilots are talking about the issues and downfalls of the FBW systems in the Airbus A320 planes. Im taking an A319, and afraid that the FBW system is just too complicated to allow pilots to recover from a stall when they have several different error inputs being fed into the system. Maybe I should have taken an airline that flies Boeings instead. 
Son of Slot
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Hi onthefly1 and welcome to the 'cabin' of PPRuNe.
There are many anxious passengers and you are not alone, please look at the forum FAQ for previous threads of discussion.
I'll be back online later with more information but remember how many thousands of flights every day reach their destination and the very few each year that do not.
There are many anxious passengers and you are not alone, please look at the forum FAQ for previous threads of discussion.
I'll be back online later with more information but remember how many thousands of flights every day reach their destination and the very few each year that do not.
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There are over 6000 A320s (including A318, A319 and A321s) in service performing an average of six flights a day. This incident, like all incidents, is troubling but only because the actual cause is not yet known. Ignore the speculation on Rumour and News because it isn't anything but speculation.
As more information becomes known, as it will when the flight recorders are retrieved, it is likely that recommendations will be made to manufactureres and to airlines which will make this very safe aircraft type even safer.
Flying is the safest way to travel, by an order of magnitude. The most dangerous part of your journey is your drive to/from the airport.
As more information becomes known, as it will when the flight recorders are retrieved, it is likely that recommendations will be made to manufactureres and to airlines which will make this very safe aircraft type even safer.
Flying is the safest way to travel, by an order of magnitude. The most dangerous part of your journey is your drive to/from the airport.
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Don't feed the troll
An obvious attempt to stir the A v B debate. Statistically there's no proof either way that one is more safer than the other.
Boeings are by no way crash proof. Recent examples: TK in Amsterdam, Asiana in SFO, two 737s being crashing vertically into the ground during G/A in Russia as well as Thomsonfly coming seconds from losing a 737 in BOH. Icelandair 757 in OSL very nearly ended in tears. All perfectly serviceable planes.
And who can forget the hard overs nose into the ground issues the 737 suffered back in the 90s.
Fly a Boeing if it makes you feel better. They're american so automatically safer and better
Boeings are by no way crash proof. Recent examples: TK in Amsterdam, Asiana in SFO, two 737s being crashing vertically into the ground during G/A in Russia as well as Thomsonfly coming seconds from losing a 737 in BOH. Icelandair 757 in OSL very nearly ended in tears. All perfectly serviceable planes.
And who can forget the hard overs nose into the ground issues the 737 suffered back in the 90s.
Fly a Boeing if it makes you feel better. They're american so automatically safer and better
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And make sure you don't fly on a B777.
Conventional yoke but fly by wire nevertheless.
And Concorde only ever crashed once and that had nothing to do with fly by wire controls. And that was the first commercial aircraft using FBW.
Conventional yoke but fly by wire nevertheless.
And Concorde only ever crashed once and that had nothing to do with fly by wire controls. And that was the first commercial aircraft using FBW.
onthefly1
Despite what you read in the media flying is safer than ever - don't worry. I speak as an old pilot - and certainly not a old one!
The 2014 myth - Learmount
Despite what you read in the media flying is safer than ever - don't worry. I speak as an old pilot - and certainly not a old one!
The 2014 myth - Learmount
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Im taking an A319
0
Yep. Zilch. (And only two hull losses, one of which was a prang on the ground during maintenance.)
So if your flight does go down, as the helpless pilots struggle hopelessly with the haywire FBW controls, at least you will have the satisfaction of making history.
Bon voyage.
Son of Slot
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I, also, considered the possibility of this being a 'Troll' of the Airbus/Boeing question and so 'paused' the thread whilst I looked at the matter.
Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
However, I think that onthefly1 has asked a genuine question but if this proves otherwise, then action will be swift!
So I repeat my welcome to the OP (Original Poster) and thank those who have replied as this forum is here to answer these genuine concerns. If the OP would like to follow up their post? Or PM (Private Message) to me, that would be helpful
Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
However, I think that onthefly1 has asked a genuine question but if this proves otherwise, then action will be swift!
So I repeat my welcome to the OP (Original Poster) and thank those who have replied as this forum is here to answer these genuine concerns. If the OP would like to follow up their post? Or PM (Private Message) to me, that would be helpful
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Thanks everyone for your genuine replies. I assure you I'm no troll - just a neurotic OCD type that runs 100s of "what ifs" in my brain with everything. Did they do prep for icing, what's the turbulence going to be like, can turbulence cause a plane to leave its envelope, does the FD have an advanced weather radar, etc. Believe me I hate being this way, but it is what it is. Typically I just self medicate with several drinks at the terminal but with the recent incidents, my neurosis has been getting worse. Anyway, thanks again for the responses.
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By the way, my fear of flying started in 2009, when a very young captain of a small regional jet decided it was a good idea to fly from Denver to Casper, WY despite looming Dark CBs. We were getting tossed and thrown around for the duration of the entire flight. The flight attendant was strapped in the whole time. We made two approaches before aborting and diverting until the storm passed. Before that incident, I flew all the time all over the world. That flight permanently damaged me psychologically.
onthefly1, I have two daughters, one like you who started to get nervous after a single experience, bad buffeting in turbulence, actually on an AF flight, on the same route and around the same time as AF447. She now gets prescription drugs from her doctor before any flight. Her aunt was like that too and latterly only ever went anywhere by ship. My daughter does get some relief now from asking questions and finding out in more detail how an aircraft works in differing conditions.
My other daughter is completely fine with flying.
Personally I fall instantly asleep from the moment the G forces start to push me back into my seat on release of brakes.
I wonder if it is genetic, or can anyone make the switch?
My other daughter is completely fine with flying.
Personally I fall instantly asleep from the moment the G forces start to push me back into my seat on release of brakes.
I wonder if it is genetic, or can anyone make the switch?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
onthefly1 I suggest that you resist the temptation to have some alcoholic drinks prior to flight. What would be a much better solution would be to book yourself onto a "fear of flying" course to better learn to manage the psychological effects. I have assisted on one that was run by Qantas and the participants really appreciated that course.
jolihokistix My personal opinion is that there are elements that can be inherited - especially temperament which would suggest that responses to challenging situations would be the same. I know a few families where the parent has a fear of X and the son/daughter has the same fear. The media and how they beat up a story certainly doesn't help. Don't get me started on learned responses... That's a whole essay there...
Back to onthefly1
Prep for icing? There are protocols and standard operating procedures for dealing with icing conditions. The general rule is that thunderstorms also mean a lot of icing and severe turbulence. Some cells are more vicious than others. Personally, I give them a wide berth.
Can turbulence cause problems? Yes. Are you likely to ever experience severe turbulence, probably no. What you might call severe is by definition moderate. Note, I was not in the aircraft with you, so I can't say definitively. However, I fly a lot (it's my job) and I have never encountered severe turbulence. Moderate, yes. The aircraft are incredibly strong and the tolerances allowed for turbulence far exceeds what I'll put up with. However, there are methods for flying in turbulence that allow the aircraft to "do it's thing". If I (eg) try to control it, there is a risk that I will over stress the aircraft and damage it. Also, you do have to slow down a bit too.
We do have "significant weather" charts to look at and spot the likely areas of turbulence.
Weather radar. It's designed to pick up water droplets. Some of the newer designs will detect movement and give an indication of wind shear. The general idea is, the heavier the rain, that's where the thunderstorm cell is, so avoid that area.
Now to your flight that caused the problems. The very young captain? Well, I fly with guys who are in their mid-forties but look thirty so don't let their appearance dictate your opinion. There are 2 pilots so it wasn't "just his good idea". If there was no chance, then the flight would have been cancelled and believe it or not, someone would have complained about why the flight didn't go. He did the right thing, kept you all seated, had 2 approaches and diverted. Exactly what you want the pilots to do. The fact he's gone around meant that he's done the right thing safety wise.
When I flew in Australia, the abuse I got from the passengers about not flying at the scheduled time was unbelievable. Never mind that a cyclone (hurricane) had gone through the area only 6 hours ago and we were checking if the runway/airport wasn't flooded or destroyed....
However, I cannot stress enough, get yourself onto a fear of flying course.
jolihokistix My personal opinion is that there are elements that can be inherited - especially temperament which would suggest that responses to challenging situations would be the same. I know a few families where the parent has a fear of X and the son/daughter has the same fear. The media and how they beat up a story certainly doesn't help. Don't get me started on learned responses... That's a whole essay there...
Back to onthefly1
Prep for icing? There are protocols and standard operating procedures for dealing with icing conditions. The general rule is that thunderstorms also mean a lot of icing and severe turbulence. Some cells are more vicious than others. Personally, I give them a wide berth.
Can turbulence cause problems? Yes. Are you likely to ever experience severe turbulence, probably no. What you might call severe is by definition moderate. Note, I was not in the aircraft with you, so I can't say definitively. However, I fly a lot (it's my job) and I have never encountered severe turbulence. Moderate, yes. The aircraft are incredibly strong and the tolerances allowed for turbulence far exceeds what I'll put up with. However, there are methods for flying in turbulence that allow the aircraft to "do it's thing". If I (eg) try to control it, there is a risk that I will over stress the aircraft and damage it. Also, you do have to slow down a bit too.
We do have "significant weather" charts to look at and spot the likely areas of turbulence.
Weather radar. It's designed to pick up water droplets. Some of the newer designs will detect movement and give an indication of wind shear. The general idea is, the heavier the rain, that's where the thunderstorm cell is, so avoid that area.
Now to your flight that caused the problems. The very young captain? Well, I fly with guys who are in their mid-forties but look thirty so don't let their appearance dictate your opinion.
There are 2 pilots so it wasn't "just his good idea". If there was no chance, then the flight would have been cancelled and believe it or not, someone would have complained about why the flight didn't go. He did the right thing, kept you all seated, had 2 approaches and diverted. Exactly what you want the pilots to do. The fact he's gone around meant that he's done the right thing safety wise.When I flew in Australia, the abuse I got from the passengers about not flying at the scheduled time was unbelievable. Never mind that a cyclone (hurricane) had gone through the area only 6 hours ago and we were checking if the runway/airport wasn't flooded or destroyed....
However, I cannot stress enough, get yourself onto a fear of flying course.
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Redsnail thank you for that comprehensive response.aybe that is a great idea to enroll in a fear management course. I'll look into what's available in LA. As for grounding a delaying flights, after that "incident" I have never complained. I will gladly wait it out on the ground for hours instead of experiencing that kind of fear and anxiety again. By the way, you guys earn every dollar you make. I'm in the camp to keep pay very competitive so we can always attract he best and brightest. I can't think of any other profession that requires the type of skill and quick intelligence as yours.
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The risk is ridiculously small. I know that does not make you feel better, this may... Air Asia was over open water requesting to climb over weather as I assume a course correction would have lost time and fuel, this happens over land as well but you will be within closer proximity to more diversion airports than Air Asia had availability to. Also you will be flying in denser airspace, your flight crew will have more advance warning of weather and turbulence. If you are still scared, go to your doctor ask for a sedative and chase it with a drink!
Paxing All Over The World
Every member of cabin and flight crew will ask you to NOT take too much alcohol and to be VERY careful about sedatives on a flight.
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FBW is a well proven system.
Boeing and Airbus implement it in different ways.
The Airbus implementation will prevent the crew from stalling the aircraft while Boeing assumes that anyone flying a transport class jet is at least minimally capable and will allow the aircraft to perform whatever control inputs the crew make.
Both the B737 and the Airbus single aisle aircraft have performed well in service. One is about as safe as the other.
I fly on both B737s of various generations and sizes as well as Airbus A318/319/320/321 aircraft on a regular basis and have no problem flying on either maker's aircraft.
Their hull loss records are very comparable, and hull losses among first world airlines have become quite rare.
Relax and enjoy your trip. It's not as though you'll be on an uncomfortable regional jet, although the CRJs and ERJs have a pretty solid safety record as well.
Boeing and Airbus implement it in different ways.
The Airbus implementation will prevent the crew from stalling the aircraft while Boeing assumes that anyone flying a transport class jet is at least minimally capable and will allow the aircraft to perform whatever control inputs the crew make.
Both the B737 and the Airbus single aisle aircraft have performed well in service. One is about as safe as the other.
I fly on both B737s of various generations and sizes as well as Airbus A318/319/320/321 aircraft on a regular basis and have no problem flying on either maker's aircraft.
Their hull loss records are very comparable, and hull losses among first world airlines have become quite rare.
Relax and enjoy your trip. It's not as though you'll be on an uncomfortable regional jet, although the CRJs and ERJs have a pretty solid safety record as well.
Son of Slot
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As per my first reply to you, please do check the Forum FAQ (second thread listed on this forum and it always remains there). In the FAQ, there are links to two previous discussion threads on this topic.
Thanks for your contribution onthefly1, I hope that you stay with us. In discussions, when reading the replies, bear in mind that some of the folks who post in here can 'shoot from the hip'! So keep your seat belt fastened at all times...
Thanks for your contribution onthefly1, I hope that you stay with us. In discussions, when reading the replies, bear in mind that some of the folks who post in here can 'shoot from the hip'! So keep your seat belt fastened at all times...
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Another thing to think about. I feel anxiety around crowds, others find comfort being in close proximity to others. If the flight is not packed and you would prefer more personal space most F/A's would be happy to allow you to relocate to the back of the bus. On single aisle aircraft I would prefer a row to myself where I could get some sleep over a business class upgrade.
I would strongly endorse redsnail's advice. Many airlines run fear of flying courses and you would probably find one very helpful. Good luck and here's wishing you happy flying.