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Electronic cigarette's

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Old 19th Dec 2014, 20:57
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Electronic cigarette's

I know this topic has been covered in bits, But if Electronic cigarette are banned say on Emirates or BA if you went in to the toilet and puffed on it would it set off any alarms? I am sure the crews use them on board when out of site. Comments please.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 21:40
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On a recent series of flights on three carriers (long and short haul) they all specified E-cigarettes as being banned in the pre-flight departure announcements.

Since you can find yourself arrested upon arrival, it ain't worth it.

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Old 19th Dec 2014, 21:43
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i see what you are saying but i want to know if anyone uses them even though banned and do they use at seats or in the toilets???

Also has anyone been caught using one????
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 22:45
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In the airline I work for, our cabin crew catch lots of people using them and the offender is dealt with internally in the same way as those smoking real cigarettes, (because we do tell the customer through the Ts+Cs that we don't allow them so it's a breach of conditions of carriage). Depending on your other behaviours you could expect to end up losing your return leg and having to book a one way seat with another carrier to get you home at your own cost. The only real difference with e-cigs and real ones in airline world is that I'm yet to see a police prosecution under the Air Navigation Order for using an e-cig, so at least you'd avoid a potential 5000 fine.

I sympathise to some extent, my personal view is that they should be allowed, (because they're way better than the real, stinky article, which we get enough of as it is), but as with all things even connected with smoking in name only, there is hysteria among some of the public and it's that which largely drives this. Airlines have had passengers light a real cigarette in the cabin because they saw someone puffing on an e-cig.

There is anecdotal evidence that they may set off toilet smoke alarms, but it's debatable. Some people try to be ultra discreet and use them in the seat without anyone ever knowing (there's a breath holding technique that some use that produces no vapour on exhaling, and it can just look like you're sucking a pen while doing the crossword) but whether you try and do that is up to you. It's a pretty expensive puff when your fellow passenger or a cabin crew member spots you and your inbound leg ends up being cancelled.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 23:14
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The issue is a few have exploded and if someone sees puffs of smoke rising from a few rows ahead, they may assume it is ok to smoke the real thing and light up.

I'm not one fir getting involved when I'm not the operating crew but I did see a pax in the window seat using one and trying to hide it. I had to politely tell her to stop. She claimed she didn't know they weren't permitted (then why were you hiding it?!).

I think they could set off an alarm. Right now I'm in a hotel room with a big sign saying to close the bathroom door when showering so as not to set off the alarm. It's not unreasonable to assume that someone standing in a tiny toilet in a plane could exhale the vapour into the sensor and activating it. I know for sure that deodorant can do this.
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Old 19th Dec 2014, 23:36
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a few have exploded
Really? Could you provide an example of an e-cig exploding in use, or in standby in the pocket? Genuinely interested by the way, not a dig.

Batteries being charged have exploded, I know that much, usually because people use cheap Chinese copies of proper chargers. But I've never heard of an e-cig exploding while actually in use, and knock-off chargers are the cause of fire and explosion in battery charging generally, it's not restricted to e-cigs.

That's not the reason many airlines ban them anyway, we choose to do so for the second reason you cite. (If someone sees vapour, they may think it's okay to light up a real one).
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 01:27
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One of the issues is the smoke. Smoke in a cabin can get people worried, especially those familiar with the chances of an aircraft surviving an on-board fire. Could easily cause a diversion
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 02:08
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I know this topic has been covered in bits, But if Electronic cigarette are banned say on Emirates or BA if you went in to the toilet and puffed on it would it set off any alarms?
"What are my chances of getting away with this?"

I am sure the crews use them on board when out of site. Comments please.
"You guys do it (though I have no evidence whatsoever), why can't I?"
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 05:35
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e-cigarettes do NOT give off smoke, they give off a water vapour and very little of it at that.

And should smoke detectors be susceptible to water vapour (steam) then don't exhale it, simply swallow it ... it's only water after all.

I went on to e-cigs from the real thing and after 6 months of e-cigs I gave up all together, that was nigh on 4 years ago and I haven't been tempted to smoke since.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 06:53
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Google's your friend mate. There are many examples of this during use and in standby. This from the daily Fail:

Dave Aspinall's e-cigarette overheated and exploded sparking a fire
48-year-old spent nine days in hospital after metal showered his limbs
Doctors treating him likened his injuries to gun shot wounds
Mr Aspinall, who nearly lost his flat, will need three years of skin grafts
He said: 'There was lots of blood, a hole in one leg and a gash in the other'
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 08:07
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You really ought to read the rest of that story, from different sources. It should come under the heading "self-inflicted injury".
The 'victim' had modified the device, including modifying the heating coil to reduce the coil's resistance to almost a short circuit. He had even sanded away insulation in order to make a better connection for his modified heating coil.
Oh, and he had been warned about doing something similar on at least 2 earlier occasions.
Now to go and have a word with my lad who may be using one of these 'low ohm' coil devices.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 09:06
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Fafi: Google is only your friend if you follow the links to read the story properly.
Aspinall's battery exploded while charging, and it was charging next to his oxygen concentrator. As I said, charging any sort of battery with knock off kit is fraught with danger.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 10:38
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Lithium-Ion batteries have a history of overheating, some tragically with the loss of the aircraft and death to passengers and crew.

South African Combii over the Indian Ocean, UPS 747 in the UAE, Korean 747 of the coast of Korea. (Last two were pure freighters, which is why you probably haven't heard of them.)

Li-I batteries are in a plethora of devices carried onboard aircraft, generally (fairly) expensive devices made to high quality standards. Even then there are continued reports of overheating and fires, rarely in flight, thank goodness.

E-cigs are cheap, some made in factories with no concern for quality control and, as we have seen here, fairly easy to modify. They can be very dangerous. Much more so than a phone or a laptop.

I would prefer that they were a forbidden device in the cabin and the hold, but realistically that isn't going to happen. But to use them inflight is too big a risk. Onboard fires can and do kill everyone on board. Do we really want to take the risk just to satisfy someone's nicotine addiction?

Many aircraft have power to seats, and I expect that having them at every seat will be the next big thing in aviation. So we are going to see them charged on board. Scarey
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 11:02
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Fafi: Google is only your friend if you follow the links to read the story properly.
Aspinall's battery exploded while charging, and it was charging next to his oxygen concentrator.
No, that's a reference to the chap who died in August of this year, not to Aspinall.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 11:44
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I'd personally just be respectful and follow the rules/regulations that I'm expected to adhere to.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 11:46
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Try this article in The Independent: Calls for safety warnings after 'exploding' e-cigarette chargers cause more than 100 fires - Home News - UK - The Independent 15th November 2014

It is true that explosions are more likely to occur when recharging. Some excerpts:
The Local Government Association (LGA), which represents fire brigades in England and Wales, said e-cigarette blazes have been increasing in the last two years and is calling for “graphic” warnings to be put on chargers.

In 2012, there were just eight call-outs to e-cigarette fires but the figure rose to 43 last year and there have been at least 62 so far in 2014, adding up to 113 in total.
<snip>
Fire officials believe many accidents have been caused by smokers not using the compatible chargers sold with their devices, meaning too much current passes through batteries, making them overheat and explode.
It is true that the e-cigs give off 'water vapour' but many folks do not know that and the see 'smoke'. It is due to the uncertainty and the influence they will have on other pax that they are banned.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 20:52
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The 'victim' had modified the device,
First of all, I think airlines (and the TSA) need to look at homemade/modded devices of all types prior to allowing them onboard. Either carry-on or checked. There's a reason that consumer devices are given CE/UL approvals. Anything with a significant energy source could be a hazard if not designed or built to some minimal standards.

Second point: What is it with all these e-cig smokers modding their devices? I hang out on some electrical boards and they are full of "how do I mod my e-cig" questions? I suspect, given some of the boards involved and the types of people posting, that they are trying to smoke something other than the intended substance for which they need more power. Something along the lines of hash oil perhaps?
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 22:37
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A few minutes using DuckDuckGo has revealed that e-cigarettes can and do set off the smoke detectors in airplane lavotries. Not always, but enough to seriously embarrass the addict.

Embarrassment is not the only risk, as some airlines take their rules and regulations very seriously.

I wouldn't risk it.
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Old 20th Dec 2014, 23:17
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Last week, an 18-year-old bartender in North Yorkshire, England, was serving drinks when a colleague's electronic cigarette exploded, setting the bartender's dress on fire. This was not the first reported incident of an e-cigarette exploding—over the past few years, there have been more than a dozensimilar reports.

Vietnam veteran suffers horrific burns as electronic cigarette EXPLODES inside his mouth and blows out all of his teeth
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Old 21st Dec 2014, 00:12
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Electronic cigarette's can and have set of alarms!

Just from last week:

Southwest passenger's e-cigarette use caused emergency landing

Airplane from Ft. Lauderdale makes emergency landing at BWI after fire detector went off.

Dec 11, 2014 LINTHICUM, Md.

Southwest Airlines released a statement Wednesday that indicated Flight 3654 made the emergency landing because a customer used an e-cigarette in one of the airplane's bathrooms, and the vapor set off the fire detector.

The pilot declared an emergency out of an abundance of caution and landed the plane safely at BWI, which was its original destination, according to Southwest.
Southwest: Passenger's e-cigarette use caused emergency landing | Maryland News - WBAL Home

US Department of Transportation consider their use on scheduled commercial flights to be illegal.

A few European airlines, most notably Ryanair, allow the use of smokeless cigarettes (not electronic cigarettes). See: Similar Smokeless Cigarettes (sold onboard some flights).
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