Oops !
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: London
Oops !
I was sat on board G-DBCG last night a minute or two into the climbout from LGW (BA2762) when we suddenly slowed and levelled off.
Shortly thereafter the Capt came on to say there was a problem with the forward undercarriage failing to retract, so we would be returning to LGW.
The return passed off reasonably uneventfully (though being met by the fire trucks with lights flashing caused the odd ooh and aah down the back) and we eventually parked up at a gate.
A few minutes later, the Capt came back on to announce that the maintenance guys had looked at the u/c and found the cause of the problem: the ground crew had failed to remove a pin which had been in place when the aircraft had been towed earlier in the day
I imagine whoever forgot has probably had rather a torrid time over the last 24 hours, but doesn't the PF also bear some responsibility for not checking ?
We eventually got bussed over to G-DBCI and arrived at AMS 2 1/2 hours late, but I imagine it could have been rather more serious if the u/c had got stuck halfway in (especially as I was sitting right over it !!!)
Shortly thereafter the Capt came on to say there was a problem with the forward undercarriage failing to retract, so we would be returning to LGW.
The return passed off reasonably uneventfully (though being met by the fire trucks with lights flashing caused the odd ooh and aah down the back) and we eventually parked up at a gate.
A few minutes later, the Capt came back on to announce that the maintenance guys had looked at the u/c and found the cause of the problem: the ground crew had failed to remove a pin which had been in place when the aircraft had been towed earlier in the day
I imagine whoever forgot has probably had rather a torrid time over the last 24 hours, but doesn't the PF also bear some responsibility for not checking ?
We eventually got bussed over to G-DBCI and arrived at AMS 2 1/2 hours late, but I imagine it could have been rather more serious if the u/c had got stuck halfway in (especially as I was sitting right over it !!!)
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: On the dark side of the moon
Our SOP was to check that the gear pins were all installed in their storage box in the flight deck. Seeing them there meant that you were good to go, or so we thought. Then came the embarrassing day when a similar thing happened and we learned that maintenance guys carried around a spare set which they claimed was easier than having to go "all the way up to the flight deck" to retrieve them. 
There have also been cases where the crew simply didn't see the pin because it was missing the red flag that's supposed to indicate it's there. The red flags are needed because some pins are not easy to see on their own, especially in the dark - even when using a flashlight / torch.
I'm not offering excuses, simply pointing out that's it's not always black and white.
There have also been cases where the crew simply didn't see the pin because it was missing the red flag that's supposed to indicate it's there. The red flags are needed because some pins are not easy to see on their own, especially in the dark - even when using a flashlight / torch.
I'm not offering excuses, simply pointing out that's it's not always black and white.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 511
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From: Great Southern Land
I remember an occasion where this happened on a 767. After the Captain had done his walk around, a check engineer type hid the red lock tape so the engineer he was checking couldn't see it.
The end result was the nose gear did not retract and the aircraft returned for a landing. I gather the check engineer was somewhat embarrassed.
So there are times when the Captain is not responsible.
The end result was the nose gear did not retract and the aircraft returned for a landing. I gather the check engineer was somewhat embarrassed.
So there are times when the Captain is not responsible.
Last edited by Offchocks; 16th October 2014 at 19:28.
Nose Gear Pin
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Exit stage right.
So there are times when the Captain is not responsible.
Joined: Jun 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: UK
I very nearly did this one night after the third sector. I was inside the aircraft which had just come out of the hangar. I was going through my checks when somebody came into the flight deck with a problem with a cargo door. After resolving that, on with the show. Been outside so walkaround done. First item on the before start checks gave me a very uneasy feeling. Walkaround not done. I coughed up, got the stairs back and removed all 3 gear pins. Beers on me but it showed me just how easy it is. Checklists are a very good idea.
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: earth
Accountability for gear pins on board is weak, every tech or ultimately pilot who performs the last preflight walk around should inspect all gear for pins, (not to assume the RBF flag is attached). Only one I had seen slip between the cracks was a pin missing a flag on the center gear of an MD11 ,it is extremely rare to use and difficult to see esp when the wrong pin is used (factory has a long handle on it). The aircraft was fresh out of a heavy MX visit where pinning the centre gear was normal. A walk around requires discipline, human factors happen. On the upside the worst case scenario is dumping $$$ in fuel, an ATB and a waste of time.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: London
Did the walkround in India some time ago - red flag neatly rolled up and tied. When I asked why the reply "Very windy Sir - flag might get torn".
Must be the same chap who put split pins in all of the extinguishers and clenched them round "very dangerous if pin falls out and extinguisher goes off inside, sir"
Must be the same chap who put split pins in all of the extinguishers and clenched them round "very dangerous if pin falls out and extinguisher goes off inside, sir"
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Southampton
Not civil, but I seem to recall on RAF VC10 see-offs that a nose lock was used on push-back and SOP was to show it to the crew once the tow bar was removed.
Mind, not all see-offs required push-back, so no system is infallible.
Mind, not all see-offs required push-back, so no system is infallible.
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: UK
a nose lock was used on push-back and SOP was to show it to the crew once the tow bar was removed.
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Near the Mountains of Sussex
Airbus A319-321 Downlock Pin when installed is virtually in line with the closed Fwd Nose Gear doors.
By all accounts this incident was not a "Maintenance Error", but investigations are being directed to the Ground Handling company.It has been said that there was no flag attached.
By all accounts this incident was not a "Maintenance Error", but investigations are being directed to the Ground Handling company.It has been said that there was no flag attached.
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Austria
With regards to the pins, the check should not be for the presence of a sufficient amount of them in the flight deck. It should rather be a look at the gear pin holes during each walk around: if these are empty and clear of pins, one is good to go and will not be surprised by someone having produced a spare set.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
the check should not be for the presence of a sufficient amount of them in the flight deck.
